It's the end of the world!!!

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
Originally posted by MrPromey
BTW, I didn't intend for that to sound mean. :lookaroun

I just read it and realized how it could be taken the wrong way and I didn't want you to think I was making fun of you because that isn't what I was trying to do at all! :(

It's OK! :lol: It makes sense... :D
 

dreamer

New Member
Originally posted by kennyj29
Unfortunately, it is a business, no matter how we feel about it. If you're losing money, it doesn't get built, doesn't get improved , etc. They eventually have to do something because the crowds won't come back.....so we can't give up hope, just go along for the ride!!!!



What it boils down to is, Does the cash-carrying public want the same kind of Disney World we want with all the "magical" rides that give us the warm fuzzies inside or do they just want a bunch of thrills?

If people don't pay, Disney can't go on. They have to adapt to keep the cash flowing. If the folks with the bucks stop paying for magic, then magic ends. But then, as was said above, we'll just have another Six Flags.

On the other hand, does Disney have accurate information about what people want? Or are they making changes based on false assumptions and flawed research?
 

Fievel

RunDisney Addict
Okay...I'm going to make this short.

If they do anything more than a refurb of this ride they are going to need to take part of SE apart. There will NOT be a coaster inside, and I would even go as far as to say the ride track will not be changing. If you look at construction pics that track was built as a stabalizing force for the geosphere. You remove it and you ask for trouble.

I'm not sure what it's going to be, but they would have to spend enough money that they could build an all new pavillion. They'd also have to remove the facade of the geosphere, and the wand to get inside with a crane.




Ok....now....everyone has to be careful, because this is just a rumor and people are getting way to bent out of shape. Grizzlyhall is going to have a stroke soon if he keeps this up....
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Originally posted by frank71
What is Gemini any ways??????

Frank

http://www.wdwmagic.com/general_epcot_news.htm

26 September 2002: Project Gemini Update

Project Gemini now has the backing of Michael Eisner and Paul Pressler, and budgets have been assigned, they are healthy. The concept of the project is a mass rebranding of Epcot, to inject the excitement back that the park once had. The much rumored splitting of the park into 2 separate gates appears to be unlikely at this stage. The grand reopening of the park is set to be December 2006, however parts of the new project will open before that time.

Two signature attractions for the new Epcot are a Soarin' Over attraction from DCA, and another ETicket attraction called "Time Racers".
 

jmarc63

New Member
Originally posted by Fievel
Okay...I'm going to make this short.

If they do anything more than a refurb of this ride they are going to need to take part of SE apart. There will NOT be a coaster inside, and I would even go as far as to say the ride track will not be changing. If you look at construction pics that track was built as a stabalizing force for the geosphere. You remove it and you ask for trouble.

I'm not sure what it's going to be, but they would have to spend enough money that they could build an all new pavillion. They'd also have to remove the facade of the geosphere, and the wand to get inside with a crane.




Ok....now....everyone has to be careful, because this is just a rumor and people are getting way to bent out of shape. Grizzlyhall is going to have a stroke soon if he keeps this up....


Fivel there are a few things that you mention that are not correct. First the track inside SE does nothing to stableize the sphere. If you know anything about a geodesic dome you know that it's shape holds the dome together without any other supporting structure. that said SE is two geodesic domes placed together to create a sphere and is suppouted above the plaza by four massive support arms whos foundation go deep below the plaza to support the weight of the sphere. you may have seen the them constructing the track while the sphere was being built but it was built along with the rest of the steel work to save time as well as to have all the steel and other heavy elements intalled before they enclosed the sphere. So they can reconfugure the track inside if they needed to, it would be a cost saver to just gut everything but the steel inside and use the existing infrastructure inside including the track. About the crane they wouldn't necessarily need to open up the sphere to do any work, it could be why they would take two years to do the changeover. there are ways they could do the work without opening up the sphere.
 

WDWFREAK53

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Fievel
Okay...I'm going to make this short.

If they do anything more than a refurb of this ride they are going to need to take part of SE apart. There will NOT be a coaster inside, and I would even go as far as to say the ride track will not be changing. If you look at construction pics that track was built as a stabalizing force for the geosphere. You remove it and you ask for trouble.

I'm not sure what it's going to be, but they would have to spend enough money that they could build an all new pavillion. They'd also have to remove the facade of the geosphere, and the wand to get inside with a crane.




Ok....now....everyone has to be careful, because this is just a rumor and people are getting way to bent out of shape. Grizzlyhall is going to have a stroke soon if he keeps this up....

Fievel :sohappy: You've got it!!! Grizz, I believe I PM'd you about this a little while ago...the ride/track layout cannot change because it is stabilizing the exterior structure of geosphere! (almost like a crossbracing of sorts).
 

WDWspider

New Member
Originally posted by jmarc63
Fivel there are a few things that you mention that are not correct. First the track inside SE does nothing to stableize the sphere. If you know anything about a geodesic dome you know that it's shape holds the dome together without any other supporting structure. that said SE is two geodesic domes placed together to create a sphere and is suppouted above the plaza by four massive support arms whos foundation go deep below the plaza to support the weight of the sphere. you may have seen the them constructing the track while the sphere was being built but it was built along with the rest of the steel work to save time as well as to have all the steel and other heavy elements intalled before they enclosed the sphere. So they can reconfugure the track inside if they needed to, it would be a cost saver to just gut everything but the steel inside and use the existing infrastructure inside including the track. About the crane they wouldn't necessarily need to open up the sphere to do any work, it could be why they would take two years to do the changeover. there are ways they could do the work without opening up the sphere.

I have to agree with Fievel and Freak on this one.

The track will not be changing, it is still going to be a family oriented ride... if it is changed then there will be no coasters going inside of SE :lol: I can't even begin to imagine that kind of a technological Nightmare. Absorbing the vibrations, fittting in such a small space above ground, and not having support beams jetting out of the globe all over. :lol: Come on people, get a hold of yourselves. Things may change, but not that much. Time Racers is a fast sounding name, but look at the old illusion of speed used in DreamFlight, or even Horizons. Anythings possible, we may be pleasantly surprised. Don't be scared of things before they are even for sure. I might as well prepare for the Alien Invasion that may come some day. :lol: Sorry... but some of you are going overboard a bit.
 

Fievel

RunDisney Addict
I stand corrected by jmarc...although I believe if they are going to take everything out of the middle of the sphere, you still weaken it quite a bit, which is never good in hurricane country.



Griz, settle.....I know you're heart is jumping out of your chest, but let's not get ready to handcuff ourselves to any attractions until an official announcement happens or we see heavy equipment around SE.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
OK. I am going to calm down about this...*takes a deep breath*

We'll see what happens. If it doesn't meet up...same goes for Mission Space...in those three qualities effectively (Essence, Quality, and Family)...then I am going to be very ticked...VERY ticked. Disney's really in a major debt...and I don't know if they're about to make a really nice change, instead of doing something quick to bring in the guests. *sigh* Besides shows/performances...it's been going downhill. I am still uneasy...and there of course is a good reason to be.

Anywho, I'll be videotaping SE several times in a week or two (whenever I go to the Processional)...it's not going down until 2005, the rumor says, but better now than never.

Here are some catch-up replies...

"It seems that atractions that used to have "magic" (and music) are being replaced with ones with none at all."

Yes! The quality/essence factors!

"WOM had "magic". Test Track is allot of fun but does anyone think it has "magic"?

"I'm OK with change. I'm even OK with destroying the "magical" attraction masterpeices that I have loved for two decades....just replace it with something that has the same "heart"...the same "soul"....the same "quality" and the same "spirit" that the original Imagineers of EPCOT had."

YES! This is perfect! I am fine with change - as long as that change takes the original spirit and improves on for (A) the original guests, and also appealing to more types of audiences. That HEART is what makes up the attraction. Quality, and essence! You named 'em!

The Best Kind of Change
I've been thinking about this for a while...and there has been one attraction at the Magic Kingdom since 1994 which exemplifies my entire theory of change...and that's the Timekeeper.

The same kind of presentation is shown, the essence of its predecessor, but the quality is upped! Furthermore, it's not only going around America, but it's a history lesson - and a lesson about the future!

The show is now more appealing for KIDS and ADULTS of all ages than it ever was, yet it does not kick out the original fans, I wouldn't think - unless you hate Robin Williams?

The Animatronics and the Musical Scores are some of the best in Tomorrowland...and furthermore, it's hilarious!

But most of all, an essence has been added (an essence that lacked that truly fit this attraction in Tomorrowland)...and that's the theme of Progress: NOTHING is Impossible, but improbable.

The philosophy behind this attraction was so vital to Walt Disney - - and the changes this show area underwent...the theory is so complex..yet so simple.

I can herald this as probably the best remake of an attraction! Can anyone think of some good other ones? It's right up there:

Upped in Family Friendly
Upped in Quality
Upped in Philosophy

This is the opposite, I think, in many respects to the changes at EPCOT. If none of those attractions took place (or good replacements in these categories) and I saw a remake like Timekeeper - then I would be jumping for joy to see what would happen to Spaceship Earth! Because nothing truly is lost, it is added to.
 

Fievel

RunDisney Addict
Originally posted by grizzlyhall
OK. I am going to calm down about this...*takes a deep breath*

We'll see what happens. If it doesn't meet up...same goes for Mission Space...in those three qualities effectively (Essence, Quality, and Family)...then I am going to be very ticked...VERY ticked. Disney's really in a major debt...and I don't know if they're about to make a really nice change, instead of doing something quick to bring in the guests. *sigh* Besides shows/performances...it's been going downhill. I am still uneasy...and there of course is a good reason to be.

Anywho, I'll be videotaping SE several times in a week or two (whenever I go to the Processional)...it's not going down until 2005, the rumor says, but better now than never.

Here are some catch-up replies...

"It seems that atractions that used to have "magic" (and music) are being replaced with ones with none at all."

Yes! The quality/essence factors!

"WOM had "magic". Test Track is allot of fun but does anyone think it has "magic"?

"I'm OK with change. I'm even OK with destroying the "magical" attraction masterpeices that I have loved for two decades....just replace it with something that has the same "heart"...the same "soul"....the same "quality" and the same "spirit" that the original Imagineers of EPCOT had."

YES! This is perfect! I am fine with change - as long as that change takes the original spirit and improves on for (A) the original guests, and also appealing to more types of audiences. That HEART is what makes up the attraction. Quality, and essence! You named 'em!


Umm...changes your future? ooooookay.......I find that kind of hard to believe.

You are concerned that they are changing an attraction to bring in more people? Isn't that the point? You can be right on the money by having all the mundane, pointless AA rides you want, but if nobody pays the gate price, you're up the creek without a paddle. With that in mind, it's time to step out of the past and into the new Millenium.

Times have changed. If a huge change to SE happens, and it brings people into the park, so be it. You can't expect to have these huge rides that are all robots that the modern generation of kids will only laugh at. TGMR is still relatively new, and it's ride attendance is dwindling. If you don't cater to the wants and needs of today's generation, you shoot yourself in the foot.

Yeah, you may get a few people upset....but that goes with the territory. If Disney would listen to all the purists out there, nothing would get changed, and we'd be stuck with huge, stale parks with no real value. We'd have every original ride still in place with a handful of the new rides that Disney is now considered great for.

Griz, you know where I stand. I want to be the one to push the button to blow up the CoP. I think it's past it's time. But I ask you to keep this subject on subject. Does TT have "Magic"? Depends who you ask. I see a lot more people in line for TT than I saw in line for WoM towards the end.

Remember, everyone, that it all depends on your vantage point. If you look at this from the respect that Disney is ripping out an original ride, then of course you'll be upset. However, SE has had zero line the last 3 times I've been to WDW. Maybe they recognize this and are looking for a change. Maybe someone is confusing the fact that it's due for a major refurb and fix-up with these gemini rumors.


I'm starting to get a bit upset by this whole conversation, and the fact that anyone would think that life as we know it is over if a classic attraction is past its time and is going away. If you think of it this way, it's time to get a new hobby.
 

Disneynutcase

New Member
Regarding your request to think of good remakes of attractions, unfortunately I can't think of too many. UofE perhaps is the only other one I can think of.

When America Sings replaced CoP at DL in the mid-70's that was an okay replacement--dealt with the progress of American music and was full of songs. But the show was totally out of place in Tomorrowland.

JII--bad, then improved bad. Food Rocks!--bad.
Tiki Room: Under New Management--amusing (because I happen to like Iago) but not quite the same spirit.

Aside from these attractions, what else has been updated instead of all-out replaced? Do shows and parades count?

Scary point here seems to be that Disney tends to replace attractions rather than re-do them.

And I believe that with the way Disney relies on sponsorship and secondary corporate $$ for Epcot FW attractions that every pavillion is resutlingly alterable. The only possible plus in the SSE situation is that Microsoft is allegedly going to sponsor it. I don't think Gates would go for a half-assed ride with Microsoft's name attached to it. In other words, we probably won't be getting another JIYI. I think Disney would lose Microsoft as the ride's sponsor if something like that happened.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Originally posted by jmarc63
Fivel there are a few things that you mention that are not correct. First the track inside SE does nothing to stableize the sphere. If you know anything about a geodesic dome you know that it's shape holds the dome together without any other supporting structure. that said SE is two geodesic domes placed together to create a sphere and is suppouted above the plaza by four massive support arms whos foundation go deep below the plaza to support the weight of the sphere. you may have seen the them constructing the track while the sphere was being built but it was built along with the rest of the steel work to save time as well as to have all the steel and other heavy elements intalled before they enclosed the sphere. So they can reconfugure the track inside if they needed to, it would be a cost saver to just gut everything but the steel inside and use the existing infrastructure inside including the track. About the crane they wouldn't necessarily need to open up the sphere to do any work, it could be why they would take two years to do the changeover. there are ways they could do the work without opening up the sphere.

I have to agree with Brad on this one..
 

WDWspider

New Member
Originally posted by mktiggerman
I have to agree with Brad on this one..

Well, I don't think that the structure would fall if gutted, but isn't the entire ride system pretty much assembled together? If not, then maybe it could come out easier than I thought. And there is no way you can believe that it is not alot more structurally sound the way it currently is as opposed to an empty ball.:)
 

Scar Junior

Active Member
Originally posted by mktiggerman
I have to agree with Brad on this one..

Wait... im confused. Who do you agree with?


All I have to say about his right now is thank you to Fievel for saying exactly what I've been tryin to say all along. Trust Disney a little bit more with this (if it even happens). I'm waggering dollars to donuts that if it's changed it will still be for us all to enjoy.

I should also note that when I was five on my first trip to Disney, I loved SE more than anything. Its one of the attractions that I make sure I ride at least 4 times a trip. But I see a change is needed. If it happens, I'll be sad but I look forward to the future to see what can come next.
 

TURKEY

New Member
Originally posted by Scar Junior
Wait... im confused. Who do you agree with?


All I have to say about his right now is thank you to Fievel for saying exactly what I've been tryin to say all along. Trust Disney a little bit more with this (if it even happens). I'm waggering dollars to donuts that if it's changed it will still be for us all to enjoy.

I should also note that when I was five on my first trip to Disney, I loved SE more than anything. Its one of the attractions that I make sure I ride at least 4 times a trip. But I see a change is needed. If it happens, I'll be sad but I look forward to the future to see what can come next.

Then you agree with Rob and Brad. Brad is Fievel and Rob is mktiggerman.
 

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