It's the end of the world!!!

[wed050499]

Hey everyone,

I was just thinking about this as I came across the last page of threads. Now I've devoted a good portion of my time at college studying and being awe-struck by the man known as Walt Disney. I support everything he ever did. Many of his philosophies on life have become my own philosophies. However, I am also a great fan of Eisner, Iger and the rest of the management we have at Disney now. Why? Because they are Disney. Walt can't be here now. That's that. It's over. Just like Henry Ford can't come back and build us a new car or Einstein couldn't keep figuring out how the world works, again. The people who run Disney now are the people deemed, in this time period, by the shareholders of the company, the best people to do the job. I will no refute that. I am a shareholder and have yet to vote against Eisner or the current management at any point. I have not always agreed with what they have done, but I really am satisfied with how they run things. We always blame the things that "go bad" at Disney on Eisner. It's very rare that people come out and say "well perhaps it's my fault for not giving it a chance from the beginning." Give this change a chance. Walt would have, and if he didn't like it, he would have just found out how to improve it. Nothings perfect all the time.

Just a thought,
Brian

 

[meanmice]

I cannot believe this. I have spent the last month and a half researching Walt Disney and his theme parks and you know what I discovered, Walt would have hated that anyone could have become so attached with his rides, especially those at a park designed to showcase the technology of tomorrow. He was all about the next great thing. That's how the parks were able to become so great, they were using things that had never been seen before.

I will admit that I hate seeing good rides leave, especially 20,000 leagues and CoP. What I hate more is that 20,000 leagues is now ariels grotto, a place to meet charecters and that CoP is now a dust collecter in the corner of the park. At least when your beloved Horizons was taken out it was done so to bring in the newest and most innovative technology and to bring new life into the old and dull park.

I can understand this feeling that many have if it were MK or maybe even MGM, but when it's a park designed around change you have to expect it to change.

If it even happens, you should see and exerience it for yourself before you judge it.

 

[Disneynutcase]

Look, I'm all for bigger, better, more technically advanced new concepts, and all that stuff.

Back before Disney Parks expanded in an almost insane way, they actually had a great track record on this front. And let's admit it, for the most part of late, they still sometimes get it right.

I think Grizzlyhall goes off a bit too much in the disdain vein in Disney replacing WoM with Test Track. Face it, Test Track is the kind of replacement improvement that worked. And at the time it sacrificed one of four aging AA-dark ride education-oriented FW rides.

But now were down to one original AA ride--SSE.

I think we all can admit that with the additions of new parks, water parks, resort hotels, and entertainment venues on both coasts (as well as overseas parks), Epcot has been grossly neglected. If held to the high standard that it originally tried to be, Epcot should've constantly been updated and rennovated, and alas, it hasn't.

UoE's alteration works. TT draws some ire, but it works. But what they did to Imagination sucks and always will suck. Food Rocks is a total step down. And Captain Eo for HISTA is a minor improvement because at least it was something new.

With that said, keep in mind that Disney also tried to sell the west coast on two giant sacks of crap in "New" Tomorrowland and DCA. Believe me, all we were getting out here was a "come out and spend the day 'cause these new things are so wonderful"--NOT! So in the last half dozen years their success has been about 50-50 when before almost everything new in every park was a home run of sorts.

Let's be honest here. If Epcot is a dull and outdated park, is SSE the real problem? Because, in my opinion, WoL, LS, most of WS, and even the Land could use the massive updates and/or new and exciting attractions. In a perfect world, this is where the money should go.

But let's face facts. AT&T is pulling out and it looks like a new company (Microsoft?) is coming in. Now if you're Bill Gates and you had a shot at landing sponsorship and providing funding for a new Epcot attraction, what location would you ideally want? This is why it's going to be SSE. Disney wants the sponsorship and the cash infusion. They want a new ride to hype at Epcot for the coming years. And Gates wants in. End of story.

It's just sad that it has to be an alteration of this particular attraction when there are so many other places w/in Epcot that could use that kind of cash infusion.

And yes, some of us are naturally skeptical and upset over what's to come because for every success like Test Track, Soaring Over California, and Space Ranger Spin, there's Rocket Rods, Journey Into YOUR Imagination, and the remainder of DCA. Maybe I'm more sensitive to their recent lack of success being that a lot of the recent dreck has been located out in my neck of the woods (California). But I'm finding myself just not as excited as I used to get for a Disney new stuff, particularly their so-called "updates" of aging attractions.

 

[TheDisneyBoy]

Originally posted by meanmice
I cannot believe this. I have spent the last month and a half researching Walt Disney and his theme parks and you know what I discovered, Walt would have hated that anyone could have become so attached with his rides, especially those at a park designed to showcase the technology of tomorrow. He was all about the next great thing. That's how the parks were able to become so great, they were using things that had never been seen before.

I will admit that I hate seeing good rides leave, especially 20,000 leagues and CoP. What I hate more is that 20,000 leagues is now ariels grotto, a place to meet charecters and that CoP is now a dust collecter in the corner of the park. At least when your beloved Horizons was taken out it was done so to bring in the newest and most innovative technology and to bring new life into the old and dull park.

I can understand this feeling that many have if it were MK or maybe even MGM, but when it's a park designed around change you have to expect it to change.

If it even happens, you should see and exerience it for yourself before you judge it.

Change for the better is okay. But look at Journey Into Imagination, Food Rocks, Test Track, Innoventions, etc. The rides that came before were much much better. And I am not one of these people that is TOTALLY adversed to change, but it's not like SSE is out of date or anything. The ride goes into our past, and into the future, most of which hasn't happened yet. Not until I can do video conferencing in my home with a boy from Japan, with a language translator. Once that actually happens, then you can redo SSE.

And about your final note, by the time we experience it and judge it, it is too late to put the old one back if the new one stinks.

 

[jcmayid]

Originally posted by TheDisneyBoy
Not until I can do video conferencing in my home with a boy from Japan, with a language translator. Once that actually happens, then you can redo SSE.

And about your final note, by the time we experience it and judge it, it is too late to put the old one back if the new one stinks.

Video conferencing is totally already available man, the translator is probably available too, just probably too expensive for me and you. It's getting very close though. As far as putting the old one back, Forgetaboutit!!

 

[niteobsrvr]

Originally posted by TheDisneyBoy
Not until I can do video conferencing in my home with a boy from Japan, with a language translator.

The technology to do this exists today. Text translators already exist. Speech recognition technology has improved to the point that we should soon be able to link the translators into voice technology if we dont't already have this working in a lab somewhere now.

As far as video conferencing, it has been around in one form or another for better than a quarter of a century. Right this minute I can sit here in Florida using my home pc and chat real time with video and audio with my brother in Ohio.

The only reason we dont see all of this technology combined and in a store near us right now is consumer demand and marketing. I wont go off on how marketing controls our lives. Just let me say that when the companies who own some of this technology feel they can make a profit off of it, it will be everywhere.

 

[MKCustodial]

What's with DL's New Tomorrowland that everybody seems to hate?? And what's the concept of Soarin' that everybody seems to love?



OK, I know I'm gonna get killed here, but I have to ask this. And please refrain from name-calling and "idiot mob" and all that bull, I want civilized, inteligent answers. I've been to Test Track. I was lucky enough to be able to ride it without it breaking down. And I rode World of Motion. Now, for those of you who love TT, I'd like to know 1) why do you feel it's better than WoM and 2) do you see it as a true Disney ride with theme, story, concept and all? I ask this not because I hate thrill rides, I love them as much as the next guy. But, in MY point of view, there are sensible differenes between thrill ride TT and thrill ride Tower of Terror. ToT throws you in completely in a well-developed story. TT rushes you at 120 km/h. I put TT in the same category as Rock n' Roller Coaster. In fact, in my book, RnRC is above TT in every way, not because of the things discussed here, but simply because I feel it's a best ride (note "ride" and not "attraction"). I'd ride RnRC again, but I don't think TT has replay value.
I'll say it again, those are MY views and this is a discussion, so I'd like to hear YOUR views about it. I don't think I'm thread drifting here, it has everything to do with the argument we're having: old-style dark AA omnimover attractions (that can be updated and improved using the same concepts) against totally new not exactly thrill rides but "artificial" ones with screens instead of scenery.

 

[Testtrack321]

The question remains: WHAT'S THE STORY? If it's SE without the omni-mover, instead something aken to Spider-Man, that wouldn't be a half bad thing.

But if they put another 3-D movie with moving seates, then were doomed...

 

[MKCustodial]

Originally posted by Testtrack321
The question remains: WHAT'S THE STORY? If it's SE without the omni-mover, instead something aken to Spider-Man, that wouldn't be a half bad thing.

But if they put another 3-D movie with moving seates, then were doomed...

The article mentions a "moving theater". I think of CoP and UoE, and none of them fits inside SE, especially considering the article also mentions a 2,400 capacity.

 

[SirNim]

Originally posted by MKCustodial
The article mentions a "moving theater". I think of CoP and UoE, and none of them fits inside SE, especially considering the article also mentions a 2,400 capacity.

Exactly my thoughts. Or could a "moving theater" be an AA-style dark ride? Just like SE's present Omnimover? I couldn't imagine a tram from GMR or a big ride vehicle like from UoE inside climbing the narrowly graded screw (scientific term - inclined plane wrapped around a central cylinder) inside SE. But little individual cars, or an Omnimover, would work. It would have to be a dark ride with little cars then.

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by WDWFREAK53
I just wanted to inform you of something...not to "come down on you" just to inform you so you know (because you said that you haven't been since it opened).

Timekeeper wasn't always just a seasonally opened attraction...and the Circlevision 360 technology was not removed when this attraction took over the area. Nine-Eye was a timetraveling robot and you saw through his nine cameras or "eyes"...these 9 eyes were around the circular robot so whatever the robot saw, was projected onto the 9 screens in the CircleVision 360 theater. (So, in essence, it was still a CircleVision 360 film with a VERY cool Audio Animatronic.)

Like I said, I didn't want to seem like I was coming down on you...just wanted to tell you a little about it

I understand what your saying and Like I said, I had not seen TK and so I don't know much of the elements that were in the show building, I didn't know that they kept the 360 elements and just changed the show, If thats the case they should pull TK and put CV360 back, even temporaily untill they have something new there, I know that it had a full running schedual when it first opened, Just that know They only open it "seasonally" because they feel it's not popular enough to have on a full park schedual and IMO the space is going wasted when not opened, just like CoP. But what I ment was that I liked the films That CV360 had and I thought that the change is now a bad decision with the current TK schedual being what it is, They need to decide if the attraction has out lived its usefullness and create something new and change it right away and not waste the space, or refurbuish it now and open it on a full schedual,

 

[jmarc63]

Originally posted by MKCustodial
The article mentions a "moving theater". I think of CoP and UoE, and none of them fits inside SE, especially considering the article also mentions a 2,400 capacity.

The article could be extrapalating from what they heard about it having a "Moving theater" concept for the new attraction. Were just guessing at this time on what we think it is going to be, we need to wait and see when the details become more evident like we discovered with M:S.

 

[kennyj29]

Calm

Okay, here it goes, WoM was my FAVORITE ride at Epcot. Horizens was mysecond. Now knowing this, I will answer your questions.
1) Test Track if you go through it and look at everything in it, is very interesting. Not in my eyes as good but interesting. I do love the feeling of flying through the obstacles and outside riding in the wind.

I'm sure when all the other attractions in Epcot are gone from the original, I will miss them but I will also love trying the new. Everyone keeps harping on Imagination. No one agrees more that the new version stinks but I have to say that is the worst I've seen from them. When I saw UoE for the first time I liked it but after that it got old real fast and the worst catastrophe yet is Wonders of Life.........that is absolutely the worst thing I've experienced yet. That is an original and I can't Wait for them to take that one out. But original or new that was awful. So it's not just everything new. There were some bummers in the originals also. I always thought 20,000 leagues was awful too and that was an original by Walt. So there is good and bad in everyone's eyes and you are NOT going to please everyone. Epcot is change, they are not taking the Globe down just what's inside so the analagy of the castle didn't fit. They would never take the castle, globe or tree of life down. Epcot will be ever changing so don't get sentimental over what's there. It will eventually be gone. Just enjoy it while it's there.

 

[General Grizz]

I'll just throw this idea out again.

There's change...and there is progress.

Anything can be changed. It can be worsened. It can be changed better. It can stay the same.

But progress is that move forward...

To me, Walt Disney was about progress. But it seems that we are now diving into change.

I also had that thought about families being separated...
Father: Son and I are going to ride Test Track.
Mom: Well, what about young Charlie? I guess I'll have to take him to the KidCot Fun Stop.
Grandma: What? I may as well go over to the Land.

Remember the reasoning...Don't destroy a family attraction for one group. Improve on that family attraction, and make it better for even more audiences. Case in point, Timekeeper. Don't use 1/3 and take away from thematical and substance...and quality. Build around. Progress...

And the idea of "they will never take the castle down..." Many of the experiences in the parks are of as much value, and more, than their hubs. You can see Spaceship Earth, but inside, the story presented is one of the most crucial - if not the most crucial - thematical lessons in the world. Cinderella Castle is a great idea for a hub, and I agree, should remain, but attractions such as the Carousel of Progress contain the entire meaning and existence of the Walt Disney Company. The promise... we're losing it. (Of course, the COP was the attraction Walt Disney told his Imagineers to keep in his parks as long as they existed...)

Again, there's the idea of a ride. And then there is the idea of an attraction. There's a major difference between a thrill ride and a quality lesson. Don't destroy a quality attraction to make a ride. Improve the quality attraction. Build a ride around it.

And, like others mentioned, we need more song!!

 

[jcrb]

Screamscape.com

Project Gemini - Rumor - (11/20/02) Another rumor has surfaced in the media this week, though it sounds so odd it can’t be entirely true. This is about a replacement project for Spaceship Earth. Now, from the sound of the news report online right now it almost sounds like they’ve got two different projects confused and merged. Anyway, the gist of the report is that SE could close down in early 2005 to reopen in 2007 as a new ride called Spaceship Earth: Time Racers. From this report they think it will become some kind of simulator ride, possibly like StormRider at TDS. However, with a Soarin’ ride looking very possible next door and open long before 2007, it seems unlikely they would buy a 3rd simulator for the park for SE. My own rumor that I believe to be correct is that it will be a coaster ride that could take over one of the Innoventions buildings as the station. They would then launch the ride up and into the giant sphere either over the pathway or through an underground tunnel, and then back outside again. If the plans are true, SE would close in Feb 2005 and undergo a rather long process of removing the old ride and installing the new coaster pieces both inside and outside of the sphere. We’ve uncovered some other possible Gemini plans that would kill Ellen’s Energy Adventure (thank you!) and dig back to the canceled Millennium plans to transform El Rio Del Tiempo (Mexico boat ride) into a Three Caballeros themed ride.



are they making up their own rumors at screamscape.com? It seems like it. Coaster into Space Ship Earth???????????

 

[Disneynutcase]

I hate to be the one who asks this question since it's been the subject of a few threads already, but does anyone out there truly know what this Project Gemini truly is supposed to be?

I have it down as a Soaring attraction somewhere in FW (but maybe in a WS country), Time Racers (which up until a few days ago, I didn't know was for a SSE replacement), and a possible new WS pavilion.

Do I have this wrong?

So now the very unreliable Screamscape is saying that UoE is part of it?

What about Living Seas, The Land, and WoL? Those are the pavilions that need the updating and rennovation, not to mention new friggin' attractions.

 

[MKCustodial]

Ok, so now the rumors have gone to the thrill ride level. Can we panic now???




Anyways, I still would like to know, what are the concepts of Soarin' and StormRider? Those seem to pop up every now and then.

 

[General Grizz]

This is rumor, coming from many sources...but here is what I have heard.

They are evaluating every attraction (minus the American Adventure, Test Track, and Mission Space) and finding ways to make them more appealing.

The rumors:

1. UoE to Monsters Inc
2. Wonders of Life to Toy Story. :fork:
3. Innoventions to house a Playhouse Disney
4. Spaceship Earth to be changed to Time Racers (reports hold that the story would be projected on movie screens.)
5. Living Seas to Combine with an Air pavilion and the Land (Land, Sea, Air)
6. Little Mermaid theme to parts of the Living Seas
7. Soarin' Over Attraction (possibly in the Land)
8. A Honey I Shrunk the Kids Playset themed to a Bugs Life at Imagination
9. The enclosure of the American Gardens Theater
10. A California' Screaming Style Coaster

I can only count about two of these that I am somewhat pleased with. The rest...I would...I don't know know what I would do to keep them from doing...this.

It's all rumor. But they're basically just trying to attract people...but I think they are going about it the wrong way.

 

[MKCustodial]

Originally posted by Disneynutcase
I hate to be the one who asks this question since it's been the subject of a few threads already, but does anyone out there truly know what this Project Gemini truly is supposed to be?

I have it down as a Soaring attraction somewhere in FW (but maybe in a WS country), Time Racers (which up until a few days ago, I didn't know was for a SSE replacement), and a possible new WS pavilion.

Do I have this wrong?

So now the very unreliable Screamscape is saying that UoE is part of it?

What about Living Seas, The Land, and WoL? Those are the pavilions that need the updating and rennovation, not to mention new friggin' attractions.

Right, with Soarin' being the attraction for the new pavilion (supposedly Spain). The comments about Monsters Inc. on UoE and Toy Story on WoL were suggestions by our members, not confirmed rumors, right?

 

[General Grizz]

Nothing is confirmed. They're just thinking of ways to change the parks...every pavilion...and then do what they want. This should be formally announced sometime after Mission: Space happens.

With World Showcase and the American Adventure the only decent places left by then, I am sure if rumors hold true, I don't know if I am willing to ever go back. 50 dollars for the American Adventure (which is the best!!!)...it's a little pricey for me..