It's the end of the world!!!

[Disneynutcase]

And to answer the question about DL's "New" Tomorrowland, since it confused a few people--for those not in the know, this was another Project Gemini. Closed down a majority of that particular land for a sweeping rehab and for new allegedly "cool" attractions.

The area reopened in '98 or '99 (can't recall the year) with a lot of hype about its new wonders. And it's a complete bust with closed attractions and an area that again needs rehab.

Eliminated attractions were: Subs, People Mover, Mission to Mars, Circlevision, and a walk-up burger joint--all kind of out of date. New attractions--Innovations, Rocket Rods, and Pizza Port (a buffeteria restaurant). They also redid Autopia and Astro Orbiter.

Rocket Rods lasted about 18 months until structural damage was found on the old People Mover track. Now there is a lot of open space.

And at one time, patrons were promised an entire 2nd level to DL's Tomorrowland w/ Alien Encounter, and much more higher tech and bigger budgeted new attractions.

Hence, the skeptism. Disney talks big but isn't delivering. And now we have a rumor of them "fixing" a ride that--despite what some of you think--still works pretty damned good when there are parts of just about every U.S. Disney park that has areas closed down or hardly operational or (in the cases of AK and DCA) just need more stuff.

 

[General Grizz]

Right - about the Tomorrowland ideas... And with the other changes at EPCOT I've seen...and the ideas behind some of these new ones...I just don't have any trust!

 

[Disneynutcase]

Unfortunately, Grizz, what I'm saying is that it would be preferable if they'd just make a decision on the attractions that they are just letting go to ruin. CoP is one of these. And I have been to MK on a pretty crowded to find CoP and TK closed for no good reason other than bad Disney policy.

I say either commit to keeping these attractions or come up with something better--which is now a true challenge for Disney brass (it's their fault, not the Imagineers who actually do come up with wild and wonderful ideas--they just don't become new rides nowadays).

And for God's sake, and all of our sanity, do not let places close down and sit empty for years and year which was begun at DL with its old CoP after America Sings was pulled.

 

[General Grizz]

Okay...I see what you are getting at...

But COP isn't sitting in ruin...it's going to reopen in the next few weeks for a seasonal run. Yes, it's really a pity it's seasonal, but it is much MUCH better to have the Carousel of Progress seasonal than to have it removed. I mean, it's basically "a law" that the COP would remain in one of the American theme parks... (it fits right into the foundations of the Magic Kingdom...and the original essence of EPCOT Center/EPCOT 1.0)...plus it is "the Walt Disney attraction" that continues to educate, inspire, and bring smiles to the faces of thousands of visitors at the parks.

But the Walt Disney Co. really should, before replacing an attraction, think of a great attraction before replacing another...or operate an attraction until a replacement is thought up...of course, one that contains those qualities that made the attractions what they are...and were...in my opinion, at least...

 

[Testtrack321]

LOL :lol:

I saw that and almost pieed in my pants. That's funny. The same rumor is currently circulating about Space Mountain at DL. Look. Very funny.

My bet is that expect an update version SE, but instead of omni-movers, expcet vehicles like Spiderman, with video, AA, and slightly less intense so there would be a smaller height requirement.

 

[MKCustodial]

Originally posted by Testtrack321
LOL :lol:

I saw that and almost pieed in my pants. That's funny. The same rumor is currently circulating about Space Mountain at DL. Look. Very funny.

My bet is that expect an update version SE, but instead of omni-movers, expcet vehicles like Spiderman, with video, AA, and slightly less intense so there would be a smaller height requirement.

If they go for a Spider-Man like ride with screens, do you REALLY think they'll come up with scenery and AAs? It'd be pointless...

 

[General Grizz]

I will burn those screens if this holds true! (No, I won't...I'm kidding...) I doubt the coaster idea, but this sounds too bad...that it seems true!! :lol:

 

[jcrb]

Originally posted by grizzlyhall
Nothing is confirmed. They're just thinking of ways to change the parks...every pavilion...and then do what they want. This should be formally announced sometime after Mission: Space happens.

With World Showcase and the American Adventure the only decent places left by then, I am sure if rumors hold true, I don't know if I am willing to ever go back. 50 dollars for the American Adventure (which is the best!!!)...it's a little pricey for me..

Why can't they just enhance the other pavilions? Why destroy classics?

 

[Fievel]

I'm taking bets as to how long Griz's signature is going to get. Any takers?

 

[MKCustodial]

Originally posted by Fievel
I'm taking bets as to how long Griz's signature is going to get. Any takers?

Hey, long time no see! Where have you been?

 

[General Grizz]

Actually, I have been replacing things...it's been about this length for a long time, I've just been adding and taking away...

..but mind you these refurbishments take an old idea and expand on it!!

 

[kennyj29]

Grizzly

I know your for the old ideas and the family thing and everything but there is a couple of ideas I think your wrong with. If there is a change and there is a couple of things that people can't go on then not all families split up. My mom would watch the baby not go somewhere else, or we would take turns. I agree that they should have attractions that you could take everyone in but when I first took my kids, my son cried all the time because of the dark or Snow White was scary and pirates of the carribbean was scary and forget the haunted mansion! He didn't go back in there until he was 16. So we had to stay out with him anyway. My point being, there is no perfect World for anyone. You would like the old traditional, Others like change, no body will be totally happy. If you don't like what they do in Epcot then don't go there. It's as simple as that. I know people who won't step foot into Animal Kingdom. I love Animal Kingdom, they hate it. To each their own. We could beat this to death but kay sa ra sa ra!!!

 

[General Grizz]

Right. There will always be a "group" that will not enjoy an attraction...of course until the ideal one comes around if it does...however, taking a family-style attraction and replacing it to the other side of the spectrum isn't right. Yes, it does help out those kinds of fans (TT fans)...but it doesn't help in the situation. It just causes the same problem from the other side of the spectrum!! :lol:

A new attraction to take OTHER groups (like Test Track) could have easily been built around the World of Motion. Well, not World of Motion. But knowing the length of Test Track and space around the pavilion, it would have been more loyal to the philosphy if this was done. World of Motion could have been updated/remodeled to be more receptive to Test Track guests as well, along with having more substance and quality: taking an original idea, and putting it to new heights. See what I'm getting at?

 

[kennyj29]

Believe me, I know what your saying and I agree to a point. I loved WoM and I hated to see it go but I do understand why. I would have loved to see them expand TT and leave WoM if it could have been done but I guess it's just not possible. All I know is no matter how much we love CoP and all the other rides the lines were ridiculously small and it isn't cost efficient. Unfortunately, it is a business, no matter how we feel about it. If your losing money, it doesn't get built, doesn't get improved , etc. They eventually have to do something because the crowds won't come back.....so we can't give up hope, just go along for the ride!!!!

 

[General Grizz]

Well, actually, they could have updated the World of Motion in many aspects to make it more well-rounded. Test Track could have been added on. The only thing they need is a high budget, and this is what they are doing, giving their imaginations too little of a budget. I say, instead of doing JIYI, they could have used that budget, combined with the Test Track budget to make a GREAT well-rounded attraction to give everyone a piece of the pie. Yes, this would slow down the changing process, but the changes would be truly progressful!

As for COP, the lines were great. Some people reported that lines were low at points, but I still have yet to hear certain conditions (time of day, whether doors were open or closed, etc.). Still, the COP is a hidden attraction, and hardly anyone knows what it is when walking by. Personally, every time I have ridden it in the off season, the theater was packed. And still, the audience has given rounds of applause. If Disney put effort into marketing and showing guests what the COP is, there would be new interest. But I suppose they are setting up this trap for their own benefit? :animwink: :brick:

 

[wed050499]

Originally posted by kennyj29
Believe me, I know what your saying and I agree to a point. I loved WoM and I hated to see it go but I do understand why. I would have loved to see them expand TT and leave WoM if it could have been done but I guess it's just not possible. All I know is no matter how much we love CoP and all the other rides the lines were ridiculously small and it isn't cost efficient. Unfortunately, it is a business, no matter how we feel about it. If your losing money, it doesn't get built, doesn't get improved , etc. They eventually have to do something because the crowds won't come back.....so we can't give up hope, just go along for the ride!!!!

Very well said kenny,

I couldn't agree with you more on that. I just got thinking about this as I read through the last couple posts. Compare Microsoft and DisneyWorld (i know someone IS going to come on here and reply and say, I can't do that, but just go with it please everyone). Now, put in your mind what these two companies are based upon. Developing user/guest friendly atmospheres for as much of the population that they can. Now, think of the principle operating components of both of these systems. The first is customer/guest service or better put the employees and Cast Members. The second is the programs/attractions. Now, granted a computer program isn't exactly as tangible as an attraction and we don't exactly become as attached to a program as an attraction, however, it is essential for a program to constantly change, be replace, or be refurbished. The same goes for attractions at a Disney Theme park. No matter how much we like either the program or the attraction, it has to change. That is the way you keep costumers/guests happy (in general, not all the time) and keep revenue coming into the company (likewise keeping the shareholders happy). Now, I know that there will be some people here who will wonder why i chose something like Microsoft to compare to Disney as opposed to something more closely related like Universal, Busch Gardens, or even Six Flags. I chose Microsoft for two key reasons. First, I just downloaded some new software for Internet Explorer today that I really don't like, but it will just be a matter of me getting used to it. Second, and the more important part i think, both Microsoft and Disney are the leaders in their respective corporate fields and you don't do that by making bad decisions all the time. You do that by creating a philosophy of constant change and revitalization and then trial and error testing throughout the entire history of the company. That is why Walt Disney was successful and that is why his company continues to be so. I for one am excited to see the new attraction, granting there is one, for SE. Hopefully I will have the chance to be working at WDW again during the opening of it. Thanks everyone.

Just my thoughts,
Brian

 

[niteobsrvr]

Maybe the best idea ever.....

If anyone in marketing and management at Disney visits this board they should have a bold new plan for a 5th park by now.

Instead of closing everything and removing it for good, Disney should just move everything to a new Park to be located between Interstate 4 and Highway 192.

They could call it "Classic Disney".

It would be a separate admission of course or included with your park hopper. Inside you would find all the closed down attractions, from all of the parks, up and running along with various other items of entertainment from Disney past.


Note:
I am dead serious about this folks. I know I would visit just to ride 20,000 leagues. The first time I visited the park was in December of 1977 and I didnt get to go on them. My next visit was in 1991 but I only had time to see EPCOT and Studios. The next visit was when I returned to FLorida to work for Disney in 2000 and the ride had been closed for a couple of years.

 

[Cliff]

Take WDW and remove the "magic" and what you are left with is basicaly Six Flags.

It seems that atractions that used to have "magic" (and music) are being replaced with ones with none at all.

WOM had "magic". Test Track is allot of fun but does anyone think it has "magic"?

I'm OK with change. I'm even OK with destroying the "magical" attraction masterpeices that I have loved for two decades....just replace it with something that has the same "heart"...the same "soul"....the same "quality" and the same "spirit" that the original Imagineers of EPCOT had.

Remember Imagination version 1.0? TONS of "magic" (and music)
Remember Imagination version 2.0? Totatly sterilized and stripped of everything that was "magical". It had 0% "magic" and no music)
Imagination version 2.5: 50% of the "magic" returned (and music) WDI was pretty much forced at gun point against their will by the fans to put it back!

Imagination is a microcosm of the ENTIRE park.

C'mon WDI, make some new "magic" and make some new music...they always go together well.

Don't just design high-tech rides....Make ones with heart and soul.

A truely "magical" replacement to SSE will silence all of the criticism.

CT : - )

 

[MrPromey]

Originally posted by MrPromey
I know this is off topic but I just have to say that it is sort of funny to read your distressing posts because I look over at that turkey and it makes you seem all the more upset. :lol:

BTW, I didn't intend for that to sound mean. :lookaroun

I just read it and realized how it could be taken the wrong way and I didn't want you to think I was making fun of you because that isn't what I was trying to do at all!

 

[Snoballego]

I Imagineered a Conspiracy Theory....

Hi there good people of this message forum,

Once again it is great to see good folks passionately debating Epcot. It is personally my favorite park for many reasons.

I remember when I was working down in O-town a few summers ago and they announced the whole Mission:Space.
You know what my first reaction was?

It was not "oooh no ! don't tear down Horizons." It was me visualizing first time visitors to Epcot all fired up about seeing the new Space attraction that just happend to be open during their first visit to Epcot. They come early thinking they'll beat the crowd, go through the gate and grab their guide map. Dad, will thumb through and yelp "I found it"...Follow me to Spaceship Earth. Then realizing with more excitiment there is no line to the Space ride they will run on and journey through time. By the time they have gone through Our Spaceship Earth, they will have realized the ride is Mission:Space and by that time Stand By wait will be 3 hours and all the fast passes will have been distributed for the day.


The point to my long horribly dry story is this....here's a random theory of mine...

Mission: Space (I hope it as fun as that spaceship ride they used to have in tomorrowland) and Spaceship Earth are real similar in names...

Hence Spaceship Earth is mainly known as the Golf Ball ride to us common folks. To avoid confusions with the similarities of the names...Why not add a wacky story line for the kids through out the narration of Spaceship Earth and it would still be a journey through time, put a new spin on it like the did from Figment II to Figment III (keeping the major componets the same but different story)..add some music that makes you sound like your going faster and name it Time Racers!!!!!

Spaceship Earth is way to expensive to ever tear down plus you'd have to shut down the whole park for demolition cause that would be a huge area to barricade....I've always liked it to take the ladies on too.....Just spice it up a bit...


Anyways related to Epcot back to my World Showcase strategic placement of countries....

look at our relations with the countries in the 20th century (Walt's Time) and how close they are to the USA in the spread....

Mexico/Canada are farthest away we always have seen them as friends...They have a more intimate relationship with us since they are our neighbors....we can trust them they haven't been a problem....

Norway/UK -located on their respective fourth slot over from the proud US. Not as intimate to us as our North American neighbors, we could always count on the UK as allies and Norway to at least put up a fight before being taken over by the bad guys.


France/China - Speaking of not putting up a fight we have France. Not necessarily our enemies in black and white. They have had a history for being rude to Americans and letting our enemies waltz right on through! China represents Communism. Thats why we keep them both only three countries away so we can monitor them.

Germany/Morocco - If my theory was 110% dead on Germany would be right next to the US of A. Nothing needs to be said about Germany. Morocco is symbolic of the whole Middle East and there's nothing peaceful about the US and the middle east.

Finally..Italy/Japan - I hope I don't have to explain what reasons we have to keep Japan under careful watch (cough.>Pearl Harbor). By the middle of 1940 Italy joined the German side (they were a voluntary axis country), not to mention we like to keep them close because we (americans) are fascinated with the entertainment value of Mob Violence.

There's my two cents. I hope now you all may believe the countries were not place around that body of water in any random order. They did always call America "the Watchdog" of the world....

Give me some feedback folks..I'm new here

Thanks for reading my ramblings...

Mike