Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Tha Realest]

I think they are running at close to full capacity.

I don’t think they can keep up with the monster that G+ and expanded DAS use has created.

They have two levers: 1) greatly reduce G+ availability and/or raise prices, and 2) cut down on DAS eligibility or curtail its abuse.

Given what’s been leaked and suggested, I think we’re about to see them get medieval on DAS. The alternative means gutting the very thing that’s boosted profits and revenue.

 

[monothingie]

The problem is that they currently are running at full capacity, just doesn't feel like it cause more than half is dedicated to Lightning Lane it feels like.

They just haven't added capacity to the parks that can be utilized. Epcot has enough capacity, problem is that nobody is riding Imagination/Mission Space or sitting inside the Imagination/Awesome Planet theaters.

For a park like Epcot, it needs "new" stuff to replace some of the lesser-used attractions. It's insane to think that Figment, Imagination Theater, Awesome Planet, and Mission Space all combine for nearly 6-7K theoretical hourly ride capacity that mostly goes unused.

For parks like DAK/DHS, it just needs more new stuff. DAK is built to accommodate large crowds (it has the dining capacity for it as well), it just can't keep people there for long.

MK, needs more "space" but not necessarily more attractions. I think MK really only needs to pull a Dumbo with Peter Pan to help capacity, and get Tomorrowland refreshed. The Main Street bypass with the theater would have done wonders to the park as well. Call me crazy, but I don't think MK needs that "Behind Big Thunder" thing as much as DHS/DAK need investment.

For whatever reason, Disney has chosen to favor replacement than addition. DHS would be a lot different today if they added SWGE to the parking lot, instead of replacing the backlot and car show.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

The problem is that they currently are running at full capacity, just doesn't feel like it cause more than half is dedicated to Lightning Lane it feels like.

All I keep reading here is they are only running half of this and half of that(?)

 

[monothingie]

I think they are running at close to full capacity.

If anything G+ has been a primary driver to make sure that attractions are running to the max. A major problem is that when an attraction like ROTR of FOP goes down for refurbishment, there is a massive revenue hole. Makes them less inclined to do routine refurbs and more likely to run the attraction into the ground.

I don’t think they can keep up with the monster that G+ and expanded DAS use has created.

They have two levers: 1) greatly reduce G+ availability and/or raise prices, and 2) cut down on DAS eligibility or curtail its abuse.

Is DAS abuse that big of a thing? I would probably think that 95% of guests don't even know what DAS is, and of those 5% that do, only a fraction would actually act to abuse it.

Given what’s been leaked and suggested, I think we’re about to see them get medieval on DAS. The alternative means gutting the very thing that’s boosted profits and revenue.

I hope they do, because abusing the system isn't right. But I don't think its going to get the return they're expecting.

Disney started playing with fire by monetizing everything about the guest experience, and now they're getting burnt.

 

[monothingie]

All I keep reading here is they are only running half of this and half of that(?)

I think the confusion you're having is that the ratio of G+ to standby admissions/capacity yields itself to the perception of lower capacity with higher standby lines.

It's would take a lot of extra effort to run an onnimover at half capacity.

 

[Andrew25]

DAS is not just a WDW issue, but also an issue at UOR.

The difference is that UOR has a lot of attraction capacity that spreads out the abuse, so it doesn't impact standby as much.

 

[UNCgolf]

For a park like Epcot, it needs "new" stuff to replace some of the lesser-used attractions. It's insane to think that Figment, Imagination Theater, Awesome Planet, and Mission Space all combine for nearly 6-7K theoretical hourly ride capacity that mostly goes unused.

Don't forget Nemo as unused theoretical capacity (even though the space it occupies wasn't really intended to be attraction capacity), and the whole Wonders of Life pavilion.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There’s a quick fix: run everything at full capacity, at least until construction is caught up. Payroll will go up a fraction, and people will have a better experience and therefore more perceived value.

That would help

…but they allow have a guaranteed 5 year construction gap starting right now

Great planning

 

[Andrew25]

Don't forget Nemo as unused theoretical capacity (even though the space it occupies wasn't really intended to be attraction capacity), and the whole Wonders of Life pavilion.

Oh I can go on about Epcot, I don't want to start a debate early in the morning

I love the Canada, and China 360 films... but boy do they do nothing for capacity lol

That would help

…but they allow have a guaranteed 5 year construction gap starting right now

Great planning

After seeing how fast the Poly DVC went up, I could see a Universal construction timeline if they were incentivized to the point where they see a dramatic decrease in attendance.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What are they building right now or in the future that would add meaningful capacity?

Zilch

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

After seeing how fast the Poly DVC went up, I could see a Universal construction timeline if they were incentivized to the point where they see a dramatic decrease in attendance.

We have to accept that they are slow as a strategy…not because what they build is that difficult.

You have to want to finish…they do not

 

[Andrew25]

We have to accept that they are slow as a strategy…not because what they build is that difficult.

You have to want to finish…they do not

Well aware, they are incentivized by DVC sales. But their strategy can shift dramatically if they really see attendance drop at a park or two.

 

[John park hopper]

One thing they are fast at-----building snack bars (sarcasm)

 

[monothingie]

One thing they are fast at-----building snack bars (sarcasm)

Meanwhile at the Boardwalk Cake Box Store and Corn Dog Stand...

 

[LSLS]

The problem is that they currently are running at full capacity, just doesn't feel like it cause more than half is dedicated to Lightning Lane it feels like.

They just haven't added capacity to the parks that can be utilized. Epcot has enough capacity, problem is that nobody is riding Imagination/Mission Space or sitting inside the Imagination/Awesome Planet theaters.

For a park like Epcot, it needs "new" stuff to replace some of the lesser-used attractions. It's insane to think that Figment, Imagination Theater, Awesome Planet, and Mission Space all combine for nearly 6-7K theoretical hourly ride capacity that mostly goes unused.

For parks like DAK/DHS, it just needs more new stuff. DAK is built to accommodate large crowds (it has the dining capacity for it as well), it just can't keep people there for long.

MK, needs more "space" but not necessarily more attractions. I think MK really only needs to pull a Dumbo with Peter Pan to help capacity, and get Tomorrowland refreshed. The Main Street bypass with the theater would have done wonders to the park as well. Call me crazy, but I don't think MK needs that "Behind Big Thunder" thing as much as DHS/DAK need investment.

See I'm just not sure they are being run at full capacity. We see very long wait times while resorts and restaurants have tons of openings. It could be in part due to genie, but is that honestly adding that much more than fast pass was? Or is it they aren't operating all the rides with max lanes/vehicles/etc.? I ask because when I think of something like Buzz where (I don't think) there is a second track or something that could slow down wait times if understaffed, the wait times seem to at best be the same, but probably dropped some since before Covid. But something like Midway Mania seems to see higher wait times.

And, I fully acknowledge my picking two random rides at different parks and guestimating based on what the wait times look like on the graphs is not exact, but I'm just having trouble marrying the long wait times with the much more empty rooms/restaurants and the admitted down attendance by the company itself. Honestly, this would be a FASCINATING research project to do if I had the data to really run with (or maybe Len has it already).

 

[wannabeBelle]

@lentesta

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

See I'm just not sure they are being run at full capacity. We see very long wait times while resorts and restaurants have tons of openings. It could be in part due to genie, but is that honestly adding that much more than fast pass was? Or is it they aren't operating all the rides with max lanes/vehicles/etc.? I ask because when I think of something like Buzz where (I don't think) there is a second track or something that could slow down wait times if understaffed, the wait times seem to at best be the same, but probably dropped some since before Covid. But something like Midway Mania seems to see higher wait times.

And, I fully acknowledge my picking two random rides at different parks and guestimating based on what the wait times look like on the graphs is not exact, but I'm just having trouble marrying the long wait times with the much more empty rooms/restaurants and the admitted down attendance by the company itself. Honestly, this would be a FASCINATING research project to do if I had the data to really run with (or maybe Len has it already).

The problem is the average attendance is 25% more than when Bob took over…not because the product is great…it’s just the naturally increase in population and travel rates…

But they decided that limiting supply was a better strategy than trying to have the space to fill and then getting the people there to fill it. Which is 100% the opposite of the Eisner strategy.

The problems now are the obvious results of a philosophical shift.

 

[monothingie]

The problem is the average attendance is 25% more than when Bob took over…not because the product is great…it’s just the naturally increase in population and travel rates…

But they decided that limiting supply was a better strategy than trying to have the space to fill and then getting the people there to fill it. Which is 100% the opposite of the Eisner strategy.

The problems now are the obvious results of a philosophical shift.

It will be interesting to see if there is any change in this approach after EU opens. Or will Disney just take a non-comital approach and just do incremental improvements? All the blue sky stuff at this point is just a "hey look at me" fluff. I don't see any drive within the company right now to do anything big.

 

[bmr1591]

I know this week has been busy, but EPCOT is pretty empty today. I guess no festival has left things slower.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It will be interesting to see if there is any change in this approach after EU opens. Or will Disney just take a non-comital approach and just do incremental improvements? All the blue sky stuff at this point is just a "hey look at me" fluff. I don't see any drive within the company right now to do anything big.

The turmoil in the board room KILLS park investment.

They act like they’re gonna do it as a promise…but have no desire to spend a penny

It’s a football they yank like Lucy