Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Bullseye1967]

You’re gonna make your stand on bottled water?

How about “after hours”…which is literally a scam to fix a “problem “ they created

Like making an arsonist fire chief

Nothing to see here!!

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

…all this talk of the disconnect between Disney and Gens Y, Z, Alpha and Beta…

It should scare the crap out of the Disney hierarchy. Maybe they should sell to Bezos now when they can get a good price?

Honestly…even some in Gen X are becoming skeptical/defectors…and realize how high its tolerances was for cynicism in the first place

When you're 70 years old, you're only chasing the short term.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

When you're 70 years old, you're only chasing the short term.

The Iger defenders have convinced themselves that’s NOT the case…

 

[Angel Ariel]

With the amount in about to put down out of pocket for treatment for a new (but not uncommon) diagnosis for DD next week, I could probably easily fund a Disney trip. The sad thing is I'm not sure if that's more of an indictment on the cost of Disney or the cost of healthcare in this country.

 

[Nubs70]

A recurring theme the past couple of days in this thread among several posters has been the role of nostalgia in guest loyalty and keeping them coming back to WDW. It seems some posters (I count myself among them) have reached a point where even strong, almost family-level nostalgia isn't enough to overcome the recent direction WDW parks have taken.

For myself, the beginning of the break with nostalgia vs. reality was WDW changing FP to FP+. I could see they were doing preparatory work to monetize what had been theretofore included with the tickets, and screwed up a good thing in the process. Probably the last straw for me was the realization that we had to focus on a phone app at a precise time of day and beat thousands of others doing the same thing just to get a reservation for the privilege of waiting in a line hours later for an attraction. I haven't been to WDW since Genie, Genie +, LL, etc. came into play, and for that I'm glad. We've been to Florida many times since that last trip, but have no desire to visit WDW. It's just too much work, for too much money, for too little reward.

I have had the same evolution.

 

[Tha Realest]

The problem is every additional person on genie will make it “work less”

That’s the elephant in the room. They just don’t have anyway to get enough seats for the butts

Which is why they are basically ignoring the problem. Now they’ll get hell no matter what trick they try to pull

The continued widespread use of this is going to make G+ and ILL as must have add ons. I think it’s like the equivalent of trim packages for SUVs. Yes you can get by with a baseline Grand Cherokee. You can probably do without heated seats - but a backup camera and collision detection?

 

[Willmark]

You’re gonna make your stand on bottled water?

How about “after hours”…which is literally a scam to fix a “problem “ they created

Like making an arsonist fire chief

Hard to like this enough.

Disney and their lack of planning like 2 decades ago is the problem.

 

[Ayla]

With the amount in about to put down out of pocket for treatment for a new (but not uncommon) diagnosis for DD next week, I could probably easily fund a Disney trip. The sad thing is I'm not sure if that's more of an indictment on the cost of Disney or the cost of healthcare in this country.

It's both.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The continued widespread use of this is going to make G+ and ILL as must have add ons. I think it’s like the equivalent of trim packages for SUVs. Yes you can get by with a baseline Grand Cherokee. You can probably do without heated seats - but a backup camera and collision detection?

…good car companies have those standard now

 

[monothingie]

The problem is every additional person on genie will make it “work less”

That’s the elephant in the room. They just don’t have anyway to get enough seats for the butts

Which is why they are basically ignoring the problem. Now they’ll get hell no matter what trick they try to pull

Can you imagine paying $30PP and only getting 2 redemptions 4 hours apart? How does any of this make guests feel good about their purchase. How does anything in a Disney park make a first time guest ever want to go back?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Can you imagine paying $30PP and only getting 2 redemptions 4 hours apart? How does any of this make guests feel good about their purchase. How does anything in a Disney park make a first time guest ever want to go back?

On top of your $150 “ride all day” ticket?

…I have no idea…

It’s why this has been insane for a long time. I get if you want to pay $90 bucks to skip lines off your $40 ticket to great adventure for ONE day…

…but it doesn’t fit wdw. Bob has run the park into the ground. They’re not even crowded and the ops are a mess they can’t fix

You simply have to expand your selections. We’re at ground zero of 20 years of awful management now. Plain and simple

 

[Tha Realest]

On top of your $150 “ride all day” ticket?

…I have no idea…

It’s why this has been insane for a long time. I get if you want to pay $90 bucks to skip lines off your $40 ticket to great adventure for ONE day…

…but it doesn’t fit wdw. Bob has run the park into the ground. They’re not even crowded and the ops are a mess they can’t fix

You simply have to expand your selections. We’re at ground zero of 20 years of awful management now. Plain and simple

It’s not just ops. I get the ongoing sense that this “new” revenue isn’t so much “new” as it is canniablized from other streams (resorts, food/bev, and merch). All the “the parks are crowded as ever!” types are ignoring the dwindling resort occupancy rates and widespread dining availability.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It’s not just ops. I get the ongoing sense that this “new” revenue isn’t so much “new” as it is canniablized from other streams (resorts, food/bev, and merch). All the “the parks are crowded as ever!” types are ignoring the dwindling resort occupancy rates and widespread dining availability.

Their revenue is from cuts and price increases…as attendance is falling

Those trend lines will flip…because that’s how math works

It’s back to go…this is why you need new management. They’re sinking their own ship

 

[John park hopper]

On top of your $150 “ride all day” ticket?

…I have no idea…

It’s why this has been insane for a long time. I get if you want to pay $90 bucks to skip lines off your $40 ticket to great adventure for ONE day…

…but it doesn’t fit wdw. Bob has run the park into the ground. They’re not even crowded and the ops are a mess they can’t fix

You simply have to expand your selections. We’re at ground zero of 20 years of awful management now. Plain and simple

clarification: $150 "ride all day" more like wait in line most of the day or pay extra for a 5 minute ride

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Their revenue is from cuts and price increases…as attendance is falling

Those trend lines will flip…because that’s how math works

It’s back to go…this is why you need new management. They’re sinking their own ship

What do you think new management will do?

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Their revenue is from cuts and price increases…as attendance is falling

Those trend lines will flip…because that’s how math works

It’s back to go…this is why you need new management. They’re sinking their own ship

There’s a quick fix: run everything at full capacity, at least until construction is caught up. Payroll will go up a fraction, and people will have a better experience and therefore more perceived value.

 

[Andrew25]

There’s a quick fix: run everything at full capacity, at least until construction is caught up. Payroll will go up a fraction, and people will have a better experience and therefore more perceived value.

The problem is that they currently are running at full capacity, just doesn't feel like it cause more than half is dedicated to Lightning Lane it feels like.

They just haven't added capacity to the parks that can be utilized. Epcot has enough capacity, problem is that nobody is riding Imagination/Mission Space or sitting inside the Imagination/Awesome Planet theaters.

For a park like Epcot, it needs "new" stuff to replace some of the lesser-used attractions. It's insane to think that Figment, Imagination Theater, Awesome Planet, and Mission Space all combine for nearly 6-7K theoretical hourly ride capacity that mostly goes unused.

For parks like DAK/DHS, it just needs more new stuff. DAK is built to accommodate large crowds (it has the dining capacity for it as well), it just can't keep people there for long.

MK, needs more "space" but not necessarily more attractions. I think MK really only needs to pull a Dumbo with Peter Pan to help capacity, and get Tomorrowland refreshed. The Main Street bypass with the theater would have done wonders to the park as well. Call me crazy, but I don't think MK needs that "Behind Big Thunder" thing as much as DHS/DAK need investment.

 

[monothingie]

There’s a quick fix: run everything at full capacity, at least until construction is caught up. Payroll will go up a fraction, and people will have a better experience and therefore more perceived value.

What are they building right now or in the future that would add meaningful capacity?

 

[Tha Realest]

I think they are running at close to full capacity.

I don’t think they can keep up with the monster that G+ and expanded DAS use has created.

They have two levers: 1) greatly reduce G+ availability and/or raise prices, and 2) cut down on DAS eligibility or curtail its abuse.

Given what’s been leaked and suggested, I think we’re about to see them get medieval on DAS. The alternative means gutting the very thing that’s boosted profits and revenue.

 

[monothingie]

The problem is that they currently are running at full capacity, just doesn't feel like it cause more than half is dedicated to Lightning Lane it feels like.

They just haven't added capacity to the parks that can be utilized. Epcot has enough capacity, problem is that nobody is riding Imagination/Mission Space or sitting inside the Imagination/Awesome Planet theaters.

For a park like Epcot, it needs "new" stuff to replace some of the lesser-used attractions. It's insane to think that Figment, Imagination Theater, Awesome Planet, and Mission Space all combine for nearly 6-7K theoretical hourly ride capacity that mostly goes unused.

For parks like DAK/DHS, it just needs more new stuff. DAK is built to accommodate large crowds (it has the dining capacity for it as well), it just can't keep people there for long.

MK, needs more "space" but not necessarily more attractions. I think MK really only needs to pull a Dumbo with Peter Pan to help capacity, and get Tomorrowland refreshed. The Main Street bypass with the theater would have done wonders to the park as well. Call me crazy, but I don't think MK needs that "Behind Big Thunder" thing as much as DHS/DAK need investment.

For whatever reason, Disney has chosen to favor replacement than addition. DHS would be a lot different today if they added SWGE to the parking lot, instead of replacing the backlot and car show.