Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

Andrew25

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
lentesta said:
There's some talk of Christmas 2023 wait times being higher than 2019.

For what it's worth, we (TouringPlans) think actual wait times were definitely lower than 2019, based on the actual wait times we got from our users.

Posted wait times for 2023 averaged about 43.5 mins, a tiny bit higher than 2019.

However, the 95% confidence intervals for actual wait times in 2023 and 2019 don't overlap. So we're pretty sure they're different.

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I was going to bring up the fact that I feel like wait times are being exaggerated/over-blown for ops reasons. I usually see wait times exaggerated whenever queues nearly reach capacity and obviously to move people elsewhere. The cynic in me believes they exaggerate wait times these 2-3 weeks to deter APs/locals that aren't blocked out.

Don't get me wrong, it's busy, but it's not entirely shoulder-to-shoulder crowds throughout the entire park.
 
HauntedPirate

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
Disone said:
I hope you're right. I think this is needed to give Disney the wake-up call and self-realization that they've been phoning it in. But the same thing was said decades ago about IOA and that never came to fruition. Here's hoping EPIC is different.

For decades Disney has trained people that if Disney does it it must be thee best and now TDO takes advantage of legions and legions of individuals who believe just that and frankly won't even bother to check.

They come here with proverbial blinders on and they think, "Walt Disney World is just so extra magical during Christmas, so many Christmas trees." They don't even bother going to Universal or to SeaWorld or the Busch gardens to see what they're offerings are. And if they do, they are shocked.

" What are all these extra shows?".

" Look at all these amazing lights all over the park not just at the entrance!"

"Oh my god it's so much more holiday offerings here than it is at Walt Disney World."

But most don't. They've been trained that Disney is the best. No one can touch Disney. And Disney takes full advantage of this by totally phoning it in.

TDO two years ago: " Put up another Christmas tree, hang some garland over here, and let's put a holiday wreath up for good measure. it'll be fine."

They are doing the same with their attractions and their shows. And even worse, the corporate rot has gotten so bad that I don't think Disney realizes they're doing it. They may not even know how to turn it around even if they wanted to. The corporate rot is that bad.

TDO now : put up the Christmas tree, hang some garland over there, but we can save on some labor costs if we just leave the holiday Wreaths and some of the garland in storage and almost no one will notice".

Meanwhile the ' Disney is best" trained tourist : Disney is so amazing and nice, they know how busy Christmas week is and so they do for free all the holiday offerings, that they normally charge extra for during normal park operating hours. They're just amazing.

I still love the product. It is still Walt Disney World. And it is still an amazing place to come visit. But there's absolutely no denying it is also less then it used to be by always prioritizing the almighty wallet over everything else. Now if it's good enough for the competition it's good enough for Disney.
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This is the best damn thing I've read this week.
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
lentesta said:
There's some talk of Christmas 2023 wait times being higher than 2019.

For what it's worth, we (TouringPlans) think actual wait times were definitely lower than 2019, based on the actual wait times we got from our users.

Posted wait times for 2023 averaged about 43.5 mins, a tiny bit higher than 2019.

However, the 95% confidence intervals for actual wait times in 2023 and 2019 don't overlap. So we're pretty sure they're different.

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Click to expand...

…you always show up just when I need ya 😎

The waits were inflated by a significant margin 12/27-1/1…but I’m sure I’ll be disputed by someone after literally tracking them 😎
 
Sirwalterraleigh

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Andrew25 said:
I was going to bring up the fact that I feel like wait times are being exaggerated/over-blown for ops reasons. I usually see wait times exaggerated whenever queues nearly reach capacity and obviously to move people elsewhere. The cynic in me believes they exaggerate wait times these 2-3 weeks to deter APs/locals that aren't blocked out.

Don't get me wrong, it's busy, but it's not entirely shoulder-to-shoulder crowds throughout the entire park.
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This comes up more and more…

Consider three facts:
1. There is NOTHING that guarantees the accuracy of wait times. When we buy tickets from Disney…we are in essence signing a contract that gives them the right to control ALL aspects of what goes on in their parks
2. They have an obvious and financial incentive to inflating wait times to sell product. And there’s nothing “illegal” about it. It’s not different than a commercial telling you a Kia is the best car on the road. It’s not…and nobody cares after you bought it.
3. Disney as a company is struggling financially - in their business - at a time when almost No Companies are. It’s the outlier.
 
Andrew25

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
This comes up more and more…

Consider three facts:
1. There is NOTHING that guarantees the accuracy of wait times. When we buy tickets from Disney…we are in essence signing a contract that gives them the right to control ALL aspects of what goes on in their parks
2. They have an obvious and financial incentive to inflating wait times to sell product. And there’s nothing “illegal” about it. It’s not different than a commercial telling you a Kia is the best car on the road. It’s not…and nobody cares after you bought it.
3. Disney as a company is struggling financially - in their business - at a time when almost No Companies are. It’s the outlier.
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Disney isn't alone, Universal is exaggerating waits all the time as well, this week was just terrible. Mummy would post a 90-120 minute wait while the queue barely touches the facade, which typically is a 25-minute wait barring any downtime. Universal is a huge offender of this, especially at HHN when they post waits at 25-30 and they're complete walk-ons.

100% wait-time accuracy should never be expected... but there's gotta be some accountability when you are exaggerating waits 2-3x the actual wait.
 
wannabeBelle

wannabeBelle

Well-Known Member
Andrew25 said:
Disney isn't alone, Universal is exaggerating waits all the time as well, this week was just terrible. Mummy would post a 90-120 minute wait while the queue barely touches the facade, which typically is a 25-minute wait barring any downtime. Universal is a huge offender of this, especially at HHN when they post waits at 25-30 and they're complete walk-ons.

100% wait-time accuracy should never be expected... but there's gotta be some accountability when you are exaggerating waits 2-3x the actual wait.
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@lentesta Do we have any data on the Uni wait times? Marie
 
Andrew25

Andrew25

Well-Known Member
wannabeBelle said:
@lentesta Do we have any data on the Uni wait times? Marie
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I hope he does, I don't want to sound like I'm going crazy lol

I visit the parks quite often and have a knack for knowing how long a wait would be by now, and noticed the trend, not just at 1 attraction. The only park that's hard to judge is DHS due to constant downtime and the amount if ILLs they give out when rides go down.
 
T

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
Disstevefan1 said:
With the implementation of Genie+ accurate wait times are such an important tool to manage your day.

Its too bad they are not accurate.
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That’s why as an experienced person I will sometimes walk by queues. Peter Pan is 50 min? Not when I can see the end of the queue on the second level, Pirates 45 min? Not when the queue ends in the fort, etc. Beginners are SOL though.
 
erasure fan1

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
The waits were inflated by a significant margin 12/27-1/1…but I’m sure I’ll be disputed by someone after literally tracking them 😎
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I noticed the same thing this summer. I give them a pass on a 10 or so minute difference. But not the 25, 30, 45min+ differences I was seeing on every ride in every park. It was as blatant as could be. Only 2 rides had equal or greater wait times. And that was due to ride breakdowns. A lot of people here made excuses for Disney, but I just can't buy it. They want the fomo to hit you so you get that upsell. And it works, my sister picked it up for their one day at Epcot because of that.
 
Animaniac93-98

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
On my recent trips, long lines were often the result of:

1. People not paying attention and filling in gaps ahead of them in the queue
2. People stopping the line to take pictures
3. People not being able to decide how their extended family is going to split up and fit into different ride vehicles
4. People taking longer to get in and out of ride vehicles, sometimes due to factors beyond control like age and disability

So lines were sometimes physically long and slow moving, but not necessarily by design or ops issues
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Animaniac93-98 said:
On my recent trips, long lines were often the result of:

1. People not paying attention and filling in gaps ahead of them in the queue
2. People stopping the line to take pictures
3. People not being able to decide how their extended family is going to split up and fit into different ride vehicles
4. People taking longer to get in and out of ride vehicles, sometimes due to factors beyond control like age and disability

So lines were sometimes physically long and slow moving, but not necessarily by design or ops issues
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becausePeople.jpg
 

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