Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I just realized that this will be the first 365 day period that I have not gone to Disney in over 10 years.

In fairness it’s just a busy year getting my Daughter ready for college.

That being said I am very excited to visit Epic Universe when it opens.

I wish Disney had something in the works to move my excitement needle, but Co-Op Mountain isn’t doing it for me.

I waffle between more travel because my kids aren’t gonna be stealing my food for that much longer…and no travel because nothing is being done in Orlando and that’s not acceptable - ever.

Overall…my travel and numbers on Disneys receipt tracking system have shrunk…

And it’s not because my wallet thought it’s cold out…tired…or nervous
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
what is your definition of "fine" exactly? Still in business?
I think it’s telling that some of the harshest criticisms here about Disney’s expensiveness come from posters who appear to still be visiting WDW on a (semi-)regular basis. It seems to me that the complaints are more vociferous on a rhetorical level than they are in terms of practical action.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think it’s telling that some of the harshest criticisms here about Disney’s expensiveness come from posters who appear to still be visiting WDW on a (semi-)regular basis. It seems to me that the complaints are more vociferous on a rhetorical level than they are in terms of practical action.
You understand this is the core of the clientele…the “steel” in the middle?

It’s the last line of defense to fall

But it’s also the most experienced and intelligent (anyone can pm me individually and I’ll tell you if you make the cut for the second one 😎)…so we are the watchers who call out what doesn’t look to be wise.

I’m amazed after decades of this how people don’t seem to get that dynamic? Not “you” specifically…more or the type that constantly asks questions that boil down to some variation of: “why don’t you love Disney?”

It was never even that…I (and probably others) don’t want it to slide or fall. Then I gotta stay in New Jersey more 🙄
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
For decades, Disney has been seen as a ripoff to some. That never really changes.

They will be fine.
It is all relative. It is a personal choice for some just like a recent quarter in NJ casinos and sports betting which took in a record $1.2 billion from customers. Still a personal choice.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
This is going way back, but in 2006 I got free dining which, at the time, still included appetizers and gratuities. It was probably valued pretty close to what I paid for a room at Pop Century.

Crowd levels were still old school off season.

I don't think people realize how profitable WDW is. If they could thrive back then, with much lower attendance than today and better discounts, they can do just fine today.

A downturn in WDW business is a far cry from potentially going out of business as some people seem to exaggerate.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
You understand this is the core of the clientele…the “steel” in the middle?

It’s the last line of defense to fall
I was under the impression—perhaps mistaken—that most of the revenue comes from “general” park-goers rather than dedicated fans. If enough of the former have been priced out, Disney will adjust accordingly to raise visitor numbers back up.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I was under the impression—perhaps mistaken—that most of the revenue comes from “general” park-goers rather than dedicated fans. If enough of the former have been priced out, Disney will adjust accordingly to raise visitor numbers back up.
That is not correct.

Disneyland has a + 50% every day of frequenters

Wdw had a 50-60% or more “multiple” category each day when I had access to the data. Probably smaller…but not much

Remember the guy from 84-2004? That was the ENTIRE strategy in the swamp. Get ‘em hooked so you don’t have to sweat about people coming.
It was a smashing success.

There are all kinds of falsehoods about attendance over the years…some of my favorites:

“There’s 40% Brazilians”
“Foreign travel is always at least 25%”
“Local residents are like…30% every day”
“75% of people are one and dones”
“It used to be Americans…but not anymore”


…I laugh…and so much so I may have some bourbon at lunch 🥃


And by the way…they’re already on red alert as far as defections of customers..if you notice…but they boxed themselves in by mouthing off about their “brand loyalty” in front of bankers for 15 years.

“They always did that” - you say?

No…they talked about the “quality of their brand and it’s loyalty”. Semantics matter here. Bob used up a lot of the runway on that. To what extent? We’re in the process of finding out.

I’ll say it as always: never had an attendance dip without a recession, Hurricane, or world catastrophic event.
Never: “hmmm…anyone book a room today?…wonder why?”
 
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Lilofan

Well-Known Member
That is not correct.

Disneyland has a + 50% every day of frequenters

Wdw had a 50-60% or more “multiple” category each day when I had access to the data. Probably smaller…but not much

Remember the guy from 84-2004? That was the ENTIRE strategy in the swamp. Get ‘em hooked so you don’t have to sweat about people coming.
It was a smashing success.

There are all kinds of falsehoods about attendance over the years…some of my favorites:

“There’s 40% Brazilians”
“Foreign travel is always at least 25%”
“Local residents are like…30% every day”
“75% of people are one and dones”
“It used to be Americans…but not anymore”


…I laugh…and so much so I may have some bourbon at lunch 🥃
I would say 40% Brazilians maybe more not at WDW or UO on any given day but ground zero for that spending money crowd - International Drive outlet stores.
 

GhostHost1000

Premium Member
I think it’s telling that some of the harshest criticisms here about Disney’s expensiveness come from posters who appear to still be visiting WDW on a (semi-)regular basis. It seems to me that the complaints are more vociferous on a rhetorical level than they are in terms of practical action.
...maybe those that regularly visit Disney are the ones that see how much things change and why they are the most frustrated over some of it
 

GhostHost1000

Premium Member
I get that, but if they’re continuing to pay even though they think the experience is no longer worth it, then it seems a bit premature to me to talk of Disney being at a crisis point.
Disney can be at a crisis point and we still may visit the parks - some of us are DVC members and annual passholders as well - we still go (just maybe not as often or spend as much as before).

We just become more frustrated with changes we see and experience each trip and feel it's going in the wrong direction. Those that visit the most also see this the most
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I would say 40% Brazilians maybe more not at WDW or UO on any given day but ground zero for that spending money crowd - International Drive outlet stores.
Wdw travelers probably aren’t at the Burberry factory store proportionally as you think…

Remember there are like 600 hotels in Orlando outside of wdw.

Most people in town are not in animal kingdom on a given day…
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The cost of living has shot up just about everywhere. And didn’t @lentesta say that other theme parks have also seen dips in their attendance?
Not the regionals

The REALLY expensive ones within miles of I-4

What does that mean?

Please don’t say “they went cause they opened early in Covid…they’ll be back next year 🙄

That may not be the best Disney spun excuse…but it’s on the podium
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Not the regionals

The REALLY expensive ones within miles of I-4

What does that mean?
If I had to guess, I’d say it means that people are more willing to visit affordable local parks at this economically difficult time than they are the big expensive ones. But I thought the claim (not necessarily your claim) was that what we’re seeing is an indictment specifically of Disney’s diminishing quality.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I get that, but if they’re continuing to pay even though they think the experience is no longer worth it, then it seems a bit premature to me to talk of Disney being at a crisis point.
Anecdotal…but they’re not ALL continuing to go…

Plenty of core fans aren’t on boards. That should worry everyone. Nothing is better if attendance drops and they play pricing antics to try and mask it…

…not that I’m saying that’s what’s happening?, JJ Walker 🤔
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
If I had to guess, I’d say it means that people are more willing to visit affordable local parks at this economically difficult time than they are the big expensive ones. But I thought the claim (not necessarily your claim) was that what we’re seeing is an indictment specifically of Disney’s diminishing quality.
Two different tangents there

1. Quality? I don’t know…nothing being built is “cheap”…but VALUE? That’s a different concept and I say Absolutely (my opinion)
2. The problem is the prices in Orlando out kicked their coverage because of outside economics. My opinion…I can make the case why it’s a huge Iger mistake…but you prolly heard it already 👍🏻
 

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