Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[JoeCamel]

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"49 out of 50 states with household debt exceeding household income"

Everything is fine, Bob. "Raise prices! Because the sheep will show up no matter what because our world-class entertainment offerings have limitless revenue potential due to Disney's unparalleled storytelling and character catalogue." (Did I use enough meaningless buzzwords like Disney PR?)

That is not a surprising statement when they include mortgage debt

 

[Dranth]

To all the Pixie Duster Parks fans that believe the attendance problem is only a conspiracy theory pushed by Disney haters:

I wish you guys would accept that it IS an actual problem and accept Disney's public explanation for the problem. I know it's not an easy thing to accept and I know it's disturbing...but it's a fact.

Is there any more than one or two people who don’t believe there is an attendance drop? I would say the disagreements come when digging into why, not if and how long it will last.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Is there any more than one or two people who don’t believe there is an attendance drop? I would say the disagreements come when digging into why, not if and how long it will last.

There are a few in this thread who have posted their belief that attendance is not down. I don't care enough to find their posts, because it's a ludicrous belief at this point, but I'm sure others will find them once Disney talks during the Q4 webcast and the numbers are down at WDW. Even Len has a guess in at 16MM for MK in FY 2023.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I happened to help out someone look for on property room Christmas/new years week and beach club was available…

For 46% off.

But what was a while ago…about 9:30 last night.


Why do I bring this up? They want $956 a night at rack rate.
I don’t need a flashlight to find why their bookings are way down and things are drying up.

Their clientele as a whole doesn’t have the money for it.


Anyone want to extend Bob again? Then we can all have a thread titled: “remember when we all went to Florida and had fun?…back before they bankrupted it?”

 

[Tha Realest]

if you believe Disney has not truly experienced an attendance drop than you have to also believe they committed corporate fraud in their statements

 

[Cliff]

if you believe Disney has not truly experienced an attendance drop than you have to also believe they committed corporate fraud in their statements

Not just here but in other forums and other local discussions I have had with fans and on YouTube.

The thing is that people don't "want" think that there is a crack in Disney's armor. It's like they are finding out their king has no clothes and it's unsettling!

For most of us, Disney is a company that makes entertainment for us. We like it well enough and we respect Walt Disney and how he built this company and how it grew over the decades. We respect it's long history and it's high quality standards. Simple, right?

But then there ARE some people that take their love of Disney MUCH further. For some people, Disney is something they "believe" in.....almost in a religious way...as in a "cult-style" mentality. It's THESE people that react very negatively or nervously when they hear bad news. It's THESE people that are the quickest to jam their fingers in their ears and run away. They scream "hater" or "liar" at the person delivering the bad news as they run to a safe space.

Yes,....many times these people even work INSIDE Disney! Sometimes even THEY can't handle the idea of negative news too.

Thankfully,..these people are not too common and are just a minority in the grand scheme of things. However, I do feel very bad for them and I have a lot of empathy for their condition.

 

[Chi84]

Not just here but in other forums and other local discussions I have had with fans and on YouTube.

The thing is that people don't "want" think that there is a crack in Disney's armor. It's like they are finding out their king has no clothes and it's unsettling!

For most of us, Disney is a company that makes entertainment for us. We like it well enough and we respect Walt Disney and how he built this company and how it grew over the decades. We respect it's long history and it's high quality standards. Simple, right?

But then there ARE some people that take their love of Disney MUCH further. For some people, Disney is something they "believe" in.....almost in a religious way...as in a "cult-style" mentality. It's THESE people that react very negatively or nervously when they hear bad news. It's THESE people that are the quickest to jam their fingers in their ears and run away. They scream "hater" or "liar" at the person delivering the bad news as they run to a safe space.

Yes,....many times these people even work INSIDE Disney! Sometimes even THEY can't handle the idea of negative news too.

Thankfully,..these people are not too common and are just a minority in the grand scheme of things. However, I do feel very bad for them and I have a lot of empathy for their condition.

I think you may be overreacting.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

I happened to help out someone look for on property room Christmas/new years week and beach club was available…

For 46% off.

But what was a while ago…about 9:30 last night.


Why do I bring this up? They want $956 a night at rack rate.
I don’t need a flashlight to find why their bookings are way down and things are drying up.

Their clientele as a whole doesn’t have the money for it.


Anyone want to extend Bob again? Then we ca. all have a thread titled: “remember when we all went to Florida and had fun?…back before they bankrupted it?”

I make a decent living but I just don't see how people are paying that much a night for a room. That just seems insane to me. I just found a 1br condo with full kitchen off 192 for $780 for a week.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Not just here but in other forums and other local discussions I have had with fans and on YouTube.

The thing is that people don't "want" think that there is a crack in Disney's armor. It's like they are finding out their king has no clothes and it's unsettling!

For most of us, Disney is a company that makes entertainment for us. We like it well enough and we respect Walt Disney and how he built this company and how it grew over the decades. We respect it's long history and it's high quality standards. Simple, right?

But then there ARE some people that take their love of Disney MUCH further. For some people, Disney is something they "believe" in.....almost in a religious way...as in a "cult-style" mentality. It's THESE people that react very negatively or nervously when they hear bad news. It's THESE people that are the quickest to jam their fingers in their ears and run away. They scream "hater" or "liar" at the person delivering the bad news as they run to a safe space.

Yes,....many times these people even work INSIDE Disney! Sometimes even THEY can't handle the idea of negative news too.

Thankfully,..these people are not too common and are just a minority in the grand scheme of things. However, I do feel very bad for them and I have a lot of empathy for their condition.

Oh yes, those people are the worst.

 

[Splash4eva]

I happened to help out someone look for on property room Christmas/new years week and beach club was available…

For 46% off.

But what was a while ago…about 9:30 last night.


Why do I bring this up? They want $956 a night at rack rate.
I don’t need a flashlight to find why their bookings are way down and things are drying up.

Their clientele as a whole doesn’t have the money for it.


Anyone want to extend Bob again? Then we ca. all have a thread titled: “remember when we all went to Florida and had fun?…back before they bankrupted it?”

What i dont get is this and i understand people have money to spend etc but staying at a value or moderate if you want that bubble experience is still “affordable” based in Disney terms. Like yes they are overpriced but in the same aspect its Disney so there will always be that markup for staying on site.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Not just here but in other forums and other local discussions I have had with fans and on YouTube.

The thing is that people don't "want" think that there is a crack in Disney's armor. It's like they are finding out their king has no clothes and it's unsettling!

For most of us, Disney is a company that makes entertainment for us. We like it well enough and we respect Walt Disney and how he built this company and how it grew over the decades. We respect it's long history and it's high quality standards. Simple, right?

But then there ARE some people that take their love of Disney MUCH further. For some people, Disney is something they "believe" in.....almost in a religious way...as in a "cult-style" mentality. It's THESE people that react very negatively or nervously when they hear bad news. It's THESE people that are the quickest to jam their fingers in their ears and run away. They scream "hater" or "liar" at the person delivering the bad news as they run to a safe space.

Yes,....many times these people even work INSIDE Disney! Sometimes even THEY can't handle the idea of negative news too.

Thankfully,..these people are not too common and are just a minority in the grand scheme of things. However, I do feel very bad for them and I have a lot of empathy for their condition.

Good lord.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not just here but in other forums and other local discussions I have had with fans and on YouTube.

The thing is that people don't "want" think that there is a crack in Disney's armor. It's like they are finding out their king has no clothes and it's unsettling!

For most of us, Disney is a company that makes entertainment for us. We like it well enough and we respect Walt Disney and how he built this company and how it grew over the decades. We respect it's long history and it's high quality standards. Simple, right?

But then there ARE some people that take their love of Disney MUCH further. For some people, Disney is something they "believe" in.....almost in a religious way...as in a "cult-style" mentality. It's THESE people that react very negatively or nervously when they hear bad news. It's THESE people that are the quickest to jam their fingers in their ears and run away. They scream "hater" or "liar" at the person delivering the bad news as they run to a safe space.

Yes,....many times these people even work INSIDE Disney! Sometimes even THEY can't handle the idea of negative news too.

Thankfully,..these people are not too common and are just a minority in the grand scheme of things. However, I do feel very bad for them and I have a lot of empathy for their condition.

They don’t want to admit vulnerability because they have intertwined their actual life - the real one - with the small amount of time at Disney locations. One defines the other…but not actually

For that group. It’s really close to the mentality of fans chasing rock stars or boy bands. It’s “real”…and not at all.

But those tend to be teenage girls…so what’s is more disturbing?

There’s really never been a reason for 8 dvc contracts. I promise.

But I don’t want to open that can

 

[Lilofan]

I make a decent living but I just don't see how people are paying that much a night for a room. That just seems insane to me. I just found a 1br condo with full kitchen off 192 for $780 for a week.

You may want to google reviews of where you would be staying. A few years ago a forum member posted he and his family stayed in a condo off of Hwy 192 in Kissimmee. He would not want to do it again because of the surrounding area.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What i dont get is this and i understand people have money to spend etc but staying at a value or moderate if you want that bubble experience is still “affordable” based in Disney terms. Like yes they are overpriced but in the same aspect its Disney so there will always be that markup for staying on site.

The “moderates” accomplish one thing: location.

The amenity has never been cost comparable.

But hey - if it’s what people want? Let them eat a slice.

I specifically talk about “deluxe” rates because there’s a dirty little secret there that doesn’t get discussed enough that’s been going on for a long time now…

Hint: copper creek

 

[Splash4eva]

The “moderates” accomplish one thing: location.

The amenity has never been cost comparable.

But hey - if it’s what people want? Let them eat a slice.

I specifically talk about “deluxe” rates because there’s a dirty little secret there that doesn’t get discussed enough that’s been going on for a long time now…

Hint: copper creek

Deluxe are a rippff imo unless you can rent DVC points if so it becomes a respectable price all things considered Disney…. Do tell about Copper Creek please

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

…. Do tell about Copper Creek please

…but then I’d have to kill you

 

[PREMiERdrum]

What i dont get is this and i understand people have money to spend etc but staying at a value or moderate if you want that bubble experience is still “affordable” based in Disney terms. Like yes they are overpriced but in the same aspect its Disney so there will always be that markup for staying on site.

As a hardcore believer in the gospel of Disney's moderate resorts - and someone who has a great deal of my own wealth tied up in moving Disney travel products - that "markup" from the mouse has so far outpaced their consumers' tolerance that substantial discounts that are both broad in scope and generous in dates have yet to move the needle even one iota.

More levers incoming.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As a hardcore believer in the gospel of Disney's moderate resorts - and someone who has a great deal of my own wealth tied up in moving Disney travel products - that "markup" from the mouse has so far outpaced their consumers' tolerance that substantial discounts that are both broad in scope and generous in dates have yet to move the needle even one iota.

More levers incoming.

…I’m starting to really like you…

Anyway…this quarterly call is a
Huge deal…and I think Iger has ordered to not issue even more discounts until after it comes out and they use it as a “see…we’re gonna sell now!” Response.

Just a hunch

 

[Splash4eva]

…but then I’d have to kill you

.

 

[PREMiERdrum]

…I’m starting to really like you…

Anyway…this quarterly call is a
Huge deal…and I think Iger has ordered to not issue even more discounts until after it comes out and they use it as a “see…we’re gonna sell now!” Response.

Just a hunch

Without getting too deep into history....

Going back to the mid-twenty-teens, promotions and discounts were largely structured to upsell guests into more expensive room categories, more ticket options or days, or higher-level dining locks than they either had initially booked or would likely book (if coming in as a fresh booking off the promotion). While people like us on this message board could absolutely clean up, the vast majority of guests were willingly forking over more money for what they were sure was a "better deal."

Over a decade or so, they had things down to such a science that they could issue annual markups to every component of the package and then upsell via promotions so that even after the discounts they were coming out ahead. The "Value adds" that came along as conditions of the promotions were little-to-no real cost to them, so moving you into that Deluxe View room or elevated Dining Plan was all gravy.

For the first time since their current pricing model came into focus, their plan is failing. They have finally pushed too far, needing to squeeze more and more raw dollars out of shrinking gate clicks and cratering occupancy. The real fix - the one I think we'll be at this time next year - is to thoroughly rework (and rebrand, ugh) their pricing model.

In the short term - definitely after the quarterly call (and if the noise I'm picking up is correct, right up to or even after the holiday travel period), we'll see some broader promotions and, ahem, popular discounts. Their model works on three metrics being steady YOY: Gate Clicks, Per Guest Spending, and Onsite Room Occupancy. One of those is ticking up a bit, one ticking down more than a bit, and one cratering.

What's happening now isn't sustainable, and it hasn't been for nearly 6 months. They know how to fix it, but my lord are they scared to ring that bell.