Is attendance really down at WDW this or…

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think this is the real debate - how does Disney view the drop in attendance and what will their response be

Are they ok with it as helps with the complaints about crowding and with additional revenue streams if revenue is viewed as good and earnings per guest up while expenses down, maybe they are (largely) ok with it (or at least less worried than this thread is)

Or do they see it as a long term issue and they do invest in the parks and try to increase actual total capacity across the parks and try to motivate more people to come with the hopes of increasing total revenue and earnings even if the per-guest figures go down a little

So far their actions say they are worried about attendance at the resorts (given all the room discounts) and at the restaurants (dining plan coming back and some dining related promotions) but not as much about attendance in the parks themselves

They cannot make more money with less people.

Time to end this. It’s not mathematically valid.

 

[Tha Realest]

They cannot make more money with less people.

Time to end this. It’s not mathematically valid.

Probably. But what if one factor in this is that they can’t feasibly or reliably increase attendance any longer, and their only option is to create more revenue from those that come?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Probably. But what if one factor in this is that they can’t feasibly or reliably increase attendance any longer, and their only option is to create more revenue from those that come?

Then they lower the customer pool and lose money anyway

And sell the parks or themselves along with it to someone who doesn’t have the same needs out of the parks

Or straight up corporate raiders/strippers


…had to ask, huh?

 

[Dranth]

Definitely benefits to being in the #2 spot

Everything that goes well: We have a great product!

Everything that goes poorly: Disney's fault, not us

Damn Disney for ruining Fast and Furious - Supercharged!

 

[MR.Dis]

They cannot make more money with less people.

Time to end this. It’s not mathematically valid.

Walt Disney was quoted he created Disneyland so parents had a place to take there children on a family outing. Thus he created a paradigm that has existed for 70 years. Parents bring kids to Disney, they make happy memories and those kids become parents and bring their kids, repeat. Now Disney is breaking the paradigm, they are pricing out parents so they cannot afford to bring kids (plus the offering in the park do not make for happy memories). The generation of future parents will not have the same experiences/memories that they will want to share with their kids. This will be the true end of Disney.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Walt Disney was quoted he created Disneyland so parents had a place to take there children on a family outing. Thus he created a paradigm that has existed for 70 years. Parents bring kids to Disney, they make happy memories and those kids become parents and bring their kids, repeat. Now Disney is breaking the paradigm, they are pricing out parents so they cannot afford to bring kids (plus the offering in the park do not make for happy memories). The generation of future parents will not have the same experiences/memories that they will want to share with their kids. This will be the true end of Disney.

The current 5 year run of bad/underwhelming content will take a bite out of that apple too

 

[networkpro]

Walt Disney was quoted he created Disneyland so parents had a place to take there children on a family outing. Thus he created a paradigm that has existed for 70 years. Parents bring kids to Disney, they make happy memories and those kids become parents and bring their kids, repeat. Now Disney is breaking the paradigm, they are pricing out parents so they cannot afford to bring kids (plus the offering in the park do not make for happy memories). The generation of future parents will not have the same experiences/memories that they will want to share with their kids. This will be the true end of Disney.

The paradigm has changed, no longer is the nuclear family predominant, with only 37% adherent to that life choice.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The paradigm has changed, no longer is the nuclear family predominant, with only 37% adherent to that life choice.

Disney still sells to kids
I know we don’t want to say that (depending on what argument your making/direction of todays winds)…but still a thing

 

[DisneyHead123]

Walt Disney was quoted he created Disneyland so parents had a place to take their children on a family outing. Thus he created a paradigm that has existed for 70 years. Parents bring kids to Disney, they make happy memories and those kids become parents and bring their kids, repeat. Now Disney is breaking the paradigm, they are pricing out parents so they cannot afford to bring kids (plus the offering in the park do not make for happy memories). The generation of future parents will not have the same experiences/memories that they will want to share with their kids. This will be the true end of Disney.

I find in parent-child dynamics you tend to have the “Kiddie crack” that kids crave, and the “Isn’t that just so charming!” experiences that parents want (in part to feel like good parents and in part to put on Instagram.)

Giant plastic monstrosity toys; those awful indoor playground slash arcades where you try not to lose your kid somewhere in filthy tunnels along the ceiling and end up buying yet another “game card” for the arcade; YouTube channels and gaming and Cheetos and such - those are Kiddie Crack. Quaint wooden toys; apple orchards and pumpkin patches in the fall; vintage “tv specials” like Rudolph and Charlie Brown at the holidays; homemade Christmas cookies - that is Mommy Instagram-able Crack. (I don’t put my kiddo on social media but I admit I do still love all that kind of thing. Instagram infiltrates everyone’s brain!)

Anyways, I think Disney does a decent job of blending the interests of parents (and their wallets) with the tastes of kids. Admittedly my son would probably be happier going to Paw Patrol or Vlad and Niki land that Disney, but he still gets plenty excited about Disney with me in the background encouraging it. I have my complaints with Disney but I do think they do a good job of painting a picture of a family experience that many parents today would want (and I don’t know if growing up with Disney matters - we didn’t have all these pumpkin patches and tree farms when I was growing up, but I’m no less obsessed with our annual family visit to those places.)

 

[el_super]

Are they ok with it as helps with the complaints about crowding and with additional revenue streams if revenue is viewed as good and earnings per guest up while expenses down, maybe they are (largely) ok with it (or at least less worried than this thread is)

It's this. It's always been this. They are systemically re-valuing their product to their audience and aligning it with the premium brand it was in the past. Higher costs, lower crowds, better experience and coming soon, 60 billion in more investment.

Iger wants the parks to show growth. They will show growth by increasing attendance at the higher prices for the next 10 to 20 years.

 

[GhostHost1000]

It's this. It's always been this. They are systemically re-valuing their product to their audience and aligning it with the premium brand it was in the past. Higher costs, lower crowds, better experience and coming soon, 60 billion in more investment.

Iger wants the parks to show growth. They will show growth by increasing attendance at the higher prices for the next 10 to 20 years.

Let me know when that better experience begins…especially at higher prices

 

[el_super]

Let me know when that better experience begins…especially at higher prices

People are willing to pay more for a better experience. A better experience that means fewer people in the park, more character interactions, specialty food items and low waits for attractions. That's been obvious since the day the private parties started selling out.

Hence the reason I was saying the place is underpriced for a long time. If the private parties are selling out at the same price as the one-day admission (but with 1/2 the hours), then why can't they double the admission prices and still rake in money?

Oh wait, they basically did.

 

[GhostHost1000]

People are willing to pay more for a better experience. A better experience that means fewer people in the park, more character interactions, specialty food items and low waits for attractions. That's been obvious since the day the private parties started selling out.

Hence the reason I was saying the place is underpriced for a long time. If the private parties are selling out at the same price as the one-day admission (but with 1/2 the hours), then why can't they double the admission prices and still rake in money?

Oh wait, they basically did.

The private parties aren’t what I classify as a “better” experience, it’s a different experience which is why people go. But for most it’s a one time thing or once per trip if they are there at the time.

No sane person is going to pay anywhere close to double the current amount on Disney tickets or resorts with their current offerings and even moreso in this financial climate.

If they want to price the parks and resorts experience like the Starcruiser I wish them all the best

 

[el_super]

The private parties aren’t what I classify as a “better” experience, it’s a different experience which is why people go.

Ok so if it's not the lower wait times, the increased entertainment, merch and food offerings that make a better experience, then what exactly are you looking for them to provide?

 

[Splash4eva]

Ok so if it's not the lower wait times, the increased entertainment, merch and food offerings that make a better experience, then what exactly are you looking for them to provide?

All of which were free at one point or another…

 

[UNCgolf]

Ok so if it's not the lower wait times, the increased entertainment, merch and food offerings that make a better experience, then what exactly are you looking for them to provide?

That would be a better experience, but I'd be surprised to see entertainment brought back to previous levels, much less a change to merch and food offerings/quality (or resort quality, for that matter) to something closer to what they used to offer. It's not like the quality declined by happenstance.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Ok so if it's not the lower wait times, the increased entertainment, merch and food offerings that make a better experience, then what exactly are you looking for them to provide?

The way things used to be.

Care for the guest experience more than doing whatever they can and get away with to simply make more money

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's this. It's always been this. They are systemically re-valuing their product to their audience and aligning it with the premium brand it was in the past. Higher costs, lower crowds, better experience and coming soon, 60 billion in more investment.

Iger wants the parks to show growth. They will show growth by increasing attendance at the higher prices for the next 10 to 20 years.

I’ve never seen something so stupid and devoid of understanding history in my life.

If you’re trolling…excellent technique

 

[Miss Bella]

though royal seems to be following the Disney model or marketing to families, jacking up pricing (2025-26 Icon cruises are as much or more than Disney cruise line), and charging for extra (adults only area on private Island is an extra cost to get in, etc)

Just interesting reading on RCL forums people complaining about the same thing people here complain about Disney

I like DCL. I’ve cruised on them a few dozen times, but I don’t try to to justify the cost by coming up with ridiculous justifications. If you like something just own it… nothing wrong with that.

For the record I like Royal and Carnival too for that matter. Everything has its place.

I haven’t done a Caribbean cruise sine 2018. I’m not current on the private island drama.

As far as Icon is concerned hopefully it lives up to its price tag. The Wish did not. I think cruising is so popular right now because it’s a good vacation where food is included. It’s so freaking expensive for a family to eat out right now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I like DCL. I’ve cruised on them a few dozen times, but I don’t try to to justify the cost by coming up with ridiculous justifications. If you like something just own it… nothing wrong with that.

For the record I like Royal and Carnival too for that matter. Everything has its place.

I haven’t done a Caribbean cruise sine 2018. I’m not current on the private island drama.

As far as Icon is concerned hopefully it lives up to its price tag. The Wish did not. I think cruising is so popular right now because it’s a good vacation where food is included. It’s so freaking expensive for a family to eat out right now.

Excellent points.