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Rumor Inside Out to Replace Journey into Imagination with Figment?
- Thread starter Just4Pics
- Start date
GlacierGlacier
Well-Known Member
Sometimes the correct answer is the simplest.
The banners were likely added because it fit the story. No longer were you going on a journey with the dreamfinder inside a magical pyramid thing attached to a large showbuilding, you were being invited to the institute. The institute, which wanted to advertise their new tour to visitors and guests by placing a large, colorful banner across the entrance.
GlacierGlacier
Well-Known Member
Are you OK man? I legitimately think you may want to talk to a professional.Well seeing as this all is a bit much for some folks on this forum.
I’m just gonna try and summarize what *I* believe the *real* plot of these attractions are. This isn’t fact, this is simply my analysis. Take it as you will.
I believe Tiki Room Under New Management is basically “a group of imagineer’s” way of poking fun at current management. With Iago parodying Eisner, Zazu parodying Tony Baxter, and the Tiki Birds and the Tiki Gods acting as the rest of the Imagineers and fans that went and “caused a storm” to convince “Iago” that their way of doing things was better.
Your Imagination not only insults guests’ intelligence at the beginning by telling them they have no imagination (the very opposite of what Dreamfinder’s message was in the original, that imagination belonged to all of us). But I also believe the line, “Well as you can see there’s not much going on upstairs imagination wise. That’s just perfect for our experiments”. Is poking fun at the fact they closed the popular upstairs ImageWorks area.
The With Figment version however seems *very clear* to be mocking Tony Baxter and the Friends of Figment in my mind. The reason I say this is they clearly portray Figment as a constant, upstaging “interference” that “bombards our senses” that’s constantly proving Channing’s way of thinking wrong. Figment’s way of thinking is the non-constrained, “outside the box”, Free thinking way, while Channing’s clearly characterized as the constrained, thinking within the limitations inside the box, corporate way of thinking (also characterized as being through straight up perception (how your mind processes info) rather than creativity (collecting and storing ideas to recombine them in new ways to create something new). The opposite of what Imagination truly is. Google the definitions of both imagination & perception and you’ll see exactly what I mean)
It’s a constant argument between the two. And I can’t help but feel like each lab is mocking some sort of aspect of how Tony and the Friends of Figment complained or “interfered” with “Channing’s” plans. The sound lab seems to be poking fun at the phone calls and feedback they got from the fans. The sight lab seems to be mocking the “Focus Group” tests they had to do, which ultimately made “Your Imagination” disappear. (Hence the butterfly from that version disappearing right after the eye diagram on the right titled “Focus Groups”. With the intials (KM) (try and figure out who’s initials those are). (i’ll give you a hint, it’s in the Orlando sentinel article I linked) And it’s a chart showing how an eye, viewing visual stimuli is supposed to have “captured imagination”, inside the box. In another direction on the chart. It’s labeled “To Small Figment Brain” with no connecting line. (Insulting much?):
View attachment 380762
Then after that, we go through the smell lab. Channing explains how “research shows smells trigger the imagination, especially when pleasant familiar smells come into play”. (Notice the rose fragrance tank on the side and the white rose that shows up on the screen. That’s a reference to the rose scent that used to be in the old Dreamport and Art scenes) Figment “comes into play”. Tells Channing it’s always a good time to use your imagination, “so let the good times roll”. Which is when we get sprayed with skunk, with Figment responding “the nose knows” and “that’s how you tell a skunk is not a rose”. Yeah.. no kidding! So I think it’s mocking the fact the “Friends of Figment” made a “big stink” about the redo cause of how much the 1st redo “stunk”.
Then, literally right after, you pass by two lab doors. Laugh lab and dream lab. In the laugh lab, you hear laughter coming from inside. In the Dream Lab you can hear snoring. (According to Offhand Disney, they had actually recorded Chuck McCann (the Original voice of Dreamfinder) snoring inside). Which makes me wonder... why would they place that right after that “big stink”?? Oh! Because they were “laughing because they put Dreamfinder to sleep ‘behind closed doors’?” Oh, haha! How funny, right?
So after “that big stink stops Dr. Channing’s tour”.
Figment gets the grand idea to go to “his” open house instead and that it’ll be a lot more fun. Channing tells Figment he’s “turning the entire open house upside down”.
Then Figment responds “That’s the best idea you’ve had all day”. (Then you hear the familiar set of musical notes like when Dreamfinder introduced himself. You remember.. “What delightful melodies those will make!”)
He sings a verse about how “a spark of inspiration made his house an innovation”. “Imagination really clowns around..... ‘What’s downside up is ‘upside down’’.
Then we go through “Figment’s Open House”. With the sign “Welcome Friends of Figment”. Notice now it’s a whole group of Figments doing everything upside down.
Then the whole conversation between Figment & Channing goes along the lines, “So what do you think.. is it me?” “More than you can imagine” “But doc, that’s exactly what I imagined. ‘Imagination is the brain of this open house’”
OHHH Of Course! “Imagination is just “turning your thinking upside down”. (Yeeeeah. See where I’m getting at here. It’s basically saying Tony & the Friends of Figment’s way of thinking is upside down. That there were way more folks like Tony who loved Figment than they could ever imagine).
Then it ends with “Well... if you can’t beat him, join him!”. They sing the song together. And then Figment responds “You see Doc, I knew you’d get it! Cause you’ve got a wonderful imagination!”
Channing then says “Oh, I do?! Why thank you Figment”. “So as you can plainly see ‘Imagination works best when it’s set free’”
And Figment ends that with “You said it Doc.. “Imagination is a blast!”. We get blasted with a gust of air
And what’s that?? “The Friends of Figment” are all singing “One Little Spark” “on full blast”. This “one room” is the only scene that resembles the original ride. Almost as if it’s mocking the fact that the imagineers behind this project knew exactly what they meant and that they knew the fans would blindly congratulate them for “Bringing Figment Back”, right? Putting all of us on blast. But it gets even worse
Literally right after we see astronaut Figment gesturing towards.... oh yeah, Dr. Channing as... The Moon From Horizons!! Wow! No kidding, right?? The very thing that seemed to have had a domino effect on this entire situation:
View attachment 380763
View attachment 380764
Then once you put everything together that I’ve found and all the other scenes of the ride. Seems to *all* make sense, doesn’t it?? Same goes for the reason why WDI seems to constantly be targeting the Figment character for removal and keep that ride in the terrible state it’s in, when ultimately, he’s still very popular and sells plenty of merch.
Again... take this all for what you will. I just find this to be all WAY too coincidental and strange *not* to believe what’s going on is Infact intentional and an eerie repeating of history atm.
I believe it’s without a doubt the inner politics along with the risk-averse CEOs causing this issue.
Call me crazy, call me over-analytical. But I believe there’s something a lot more sinister about everything that’s going on at WDI with Epcot (and specifically Figment) at the moment and it’s not pretty.
Inspired Figment
Well-Known Member
Perfectly Okay. But somehow no one seems to understand that Imagineers tend to think “outside the box” when planning attractions. You seriously have to wonder why on earth, despite contractural or financial limitations. Would they choose to make Figment a constant “interference”, bombarding our senses out of all things (which has nothing to do with creativity, rather perception), that makes a “big stink” before showing us that his “upside down way of thinking” is “imagination being set free” Rather then it actually being a tour through each creative realms that inspires imagination and creating things with Figment being the childlike, innocent, lovable character we all identified with in the original. Not to mention, if the very last scene could get the vibe/feel of the original attraction right. Why not the rest?? Seems there’s no excuse for that, right? That would be purely a creative decision.
I dunno.. Like I said, take my observations as you will. Just seems really bizarre that what seems to be the same imagineers that worked on these last 2 versions of the ride, who are currently working on the overhaul of Epcot, seem to be so hellbent on getting rid of Figment entirely when he’s still a very popular character. That’s really my main point. Make what you will of the rest.
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Inspired Figment
Well-Known Member
And why choose to keep Dr. Channing or the Honey, I Shrunk the Audience Institute setting entirely when it was deemed so unpopular? They very easily could’ve utilized Dreamfinder and atleast tried to bring the original spirit back when Figment was initially planned to return. Keep in mind, most of the show scenes *were* changed from what they were in Your Imagination, with the main exception being the gravity lab/Upside Down House. Besides that, everything was changed. So I wouldn’t necessarily blame budget on that. That’s a creative decision, and a terrible one at that.
Well, you had me going until you forgot to mention the Paul/Faul McCartney connection. I mean, why else would John sign the dissolution papers at WDW?
Wngo905
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
All indications from every Beatles albums from St. Pepper's on is that Paul is dead. The person playing Paul McCartney is "the one and only Billy Shears" They gave over 100 references to Paul dying, come on man don't you understand what the Beatles were clearly saying?!?!
lol
GhostlyGoofy
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. I will say it is odd you can meet wreck it Ralph but not figment at Image Works.
I don't doubt there were personal politics / grudges trying to out Figment and now making him look like a bootleg Nintendo 64 character for nearly 20 years.
I don't doubt there were personal politics / grudges trying to out Figment and now making him look like a bootleg Nintendo 64 character for nearly 20 years.
GlacierGlacier
Well-Known Member
The very last scene is correct because it's a story. The ride is a story about how the institute is incorrect, their assumption at the beginning, and the slow education of our host by figment that imagination works best when it's set free (final scene).
Figment is constantly interfering with Dr. Channing because he's trying to get him to lighten up, relax about all that analytic senses stuff, and instead have fun and be whymsically creative with an unlimited imagination.
Now, whether that is well executed is up to you. It's a pretty poor attraction in my eyes, but it most certainly does not contain a toxic message, nor an anti-tony anti-figment message, either.
Thingamabob
Active Member
In my opinion Figment is still at least in Epcot very popular by the fans. Even if he is no where to be met within the parks there is some merchandise with him on it to be purchased. It would be a shame if the Imagination ride would be revamped totally without him.
trainplane3
Well-Known Member
Pop on over to here:
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/goodbye-to-its-a-small-world.955316/
Oh look, it's the same lady that wrote this article. Is there any truth to it?
https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/goodbye-to-its-a-small-world.955316/
Oh look, it's the same lady that wrote this article. Is there any truth to it?
MF refers to the Figment article in their post. And then...
I'll just assume we shouldn't read into it too much.
Bender123
Well-Known Member
I love me some Figment, but wow did this escalate quickly...On the plus side of this conspiracy talk, I have a new justification for taking recreational drugs.
"You must be this high to appreciate the JIYI ride experience as a physical embodiment of office politics"
FigmentJedi
Well-Known Member
Because they still wanted to commit to the idea of an interconnected Imagination Institute as HISTA was still popular in addition to the budgetary problems.
The biggest hole of your wacky conspiracy theory is that the current ride is trashing Tony and Figment fans is that Nigel Channing is never portrayed as being in the right. Instead, he is a stuffy British authority figure that cannot deal with anything remotely fun or risky that would be perfectly at home as the antagonist of a 1960s live-action Disney film, keeping with how terrified he is of lawsuits during the Honey 3D movie. We may get caught up in Figment's pranks, but he's saving us from the boredom of riding through hearing tests and a visit to the optometrist.
The reason Imagination keeps getting put off is because people there range from being Ride or Die on a Dreamfinder reboot that keeps getting put off by IP projects at other Pavilions or just really not wanting to put down Old Purpler for an IP flavor of the month and hoping the execs lose enough interest in said flavor to try pitching Dreamfinder again.
Inspired Figment
Well-Known Member
I don’t doubt your whole reasoning on the whole aspect of pitching Dreamfinder. But I believe there’s more to that. Oh HISTA was “popular” alright. Popular thanks to park op manipulation of changing the Magic Eye Theater line queue, advertising the movie as the *main* attraction in the pavilion as opposed to the ride and imageworks (which can be heard in the monorail spiel I posted here), all the while, seemingly intentionally getting JII attendance numbers down in order to get Kodak’s attention to do a complete overhaul on it... coincidentally after the whole closure and seasonal reopening of Horizons.... WDI pitched the idea of a revolutionary “Honey”-based ride with high tech technology (which Convinced Kodak and other Disney execs to greenlight the project) (view the Epcot Legacy Imagination article I linked). Along with Figment kept but reduced to a cameo (thanks to letter protests sent to Kodak when word got around of the original ride’s closure) (look at the “Save Imagination” website screenshot I posted). However once Eisner’s budget cuts thanks to the DL Paris and other factors set in. It just made the project all the worse. (See the Epcot Legacy article link I posted aswell as the statements made by one of the shareholders who helped “Bring Figment” Back”, Mike (Cheshire Figment))
Sound at all familiar to the recent rumors we’ve been hearing of WDI pitching an Inside Out attraction with Figment reduced to a cameo (Your Imagination all over again), when thankfully Pete Docter intervened and rejected the pitch and commissioned guest surveys to prove to WDI Figment was still indeed popular? (Jim Hill has also reported this same rumor in one of his recent podcasts).
And speaking of which, yes, your perception of the story is right. *However*, why do you think they’d use and portray Channing as the “stuffy authority figure who’s “never right” that cannot deal with anything remotely fun or risky” in the ride being constantly “upstaged” by the “free-thinking, creative, imaginative individual” with a supposedly “upside down” way of thinking. Please, do think about that for a moment. Try and think about what the whole inspiration and thought process behind the storyline and character roles were. Of course Figment proves his way of thinking to be right in the end. But in what way?? ...By constantly interfering and causing mischief to “Poor Channing” trying to run his tour with his “captured and controlled” way of thinking (just as it was in Your Imagination. *Who* was the imagineer that created Journey Into Your Imagination that also had involvement with Honey, I Shrunk the Audience? Look it up) .... then Figment makes “a big stink” that stops Channing’s tour before showing his and the Friends of Figment’s (all the multiple Figments on the ceiling and at the end) “upside down” way of thinking is the right way.
Am I the only one who finds it really odd they wouldn’t rather portray Figment’s view on Imagination as a more positive view of creative thinking. (Abstract concepts and ideas combined in new and unique ways to create new things), as it was in the original ride. I’m just saying...
Infact, it makes you wonder why they couldn’t have just instead utilized Channing in a similar manner to Dreamfinder and Figment again as the pure, childlike, curious character learning more about creativity through Channing. But mainly that’s just my own criticism.
And then to have it end with Channing saying “Well if you can’t beat him, join him”, then Figment congratulating Channing at the end by saying he “knew he’d get it cause he’s got a wonderful imagination”....
then getting blasted at the end with a room with seemingly every homage to the original ride you can think of and right after, Dr. Channing as the Horizons moon at the finale is just really odd to me. Seems to be a pretty oddly specific reference after all that, doesn’t it? Same goes for the Rose scent tank in the Smell Lab before spraying us with skunk instead.
Just seems overall to be really cynical and in poor taste to me.
Almost makes you wonder if that “mischief making nuisance” characterization of Figment was also intentional to perhaps *make* him unpopular, so they’d have a reason to completely get rid of him in the future. Thankfully that hasn’t happened. But still.. it makes you wonder.
Another thing worth mention is in the Epcot Legacy article, it mentions this whole “feud” and “political aspect” of WDI at the time also. Supposedly some execs “not playing well with others” and “being envious of Tony’s position at the time”, not to mention Marc Davis’s grudge on Tony thanks to Big Thunder being greenlit as opposed to Western river expedition. Which.. looking back at that time period and Tony’s position at that time. It would make a whole lot of sense. Even when thinking of Figment’s popularity alone at the park during that time compared to the other attractions, that would make a lot of sense as to what perhaps fueled the urge to get Journey Into Imagination closed and what the inspiration behind the new portrayal of Figment was .
Which ultimately sorta becomes the reason why Figment is still constantly targeted for removal still. Add that with the risk-averse, narrow “film IP” mandate mindset from the current CEOs that don’t have any sort of grasp or understanding of the popularity or potential investment of the original Journey Into Imagination, Dreamfinder, and Figment. And it becomes much more clear just how big of an issue this is.
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Figment and Dreamfinder may both still be very popular, but to suggest they can fix their previous mishandling by returning the original successful attraction with a huge budget, which is necessary, doesn’t seem realistic. Inside Out as the maligned film IP is a good replacement for the current failed Imagination attraction. Imagineering has no one to blame but itself for mishandling Figment and Dreamfinder, but Epcot doesn’t need to keep trying to rescue it as a stupid and futile gesture.
This all may be true but most folks (Disney excluded it seems) would rather have both and not the closure of a much beloved (or at least well-known) attraction in favor of Inside Out. It would make much more sense (again most folks) to have Inside Out take over a shuttered, long-closed attraction or build elsewhere. I would think the best outcome for an Inside Out attraction in Epcot would be to build in the old Cranium Command area. The only thing now is for Disney Imagineers to strong arm Pixar into letting them use this space so Figment and company can live for another day. Does Pete Docter have the clout needed to OK the rumored Cranium Command overlay... maybe to leverage for a Dreamfinder movie?
This is a non-response. Cranium Command is no more. Wonders of Life pavilion will soon be Play Pavilion. So where do you want Inside Out to go? Imagination is in need of rescue. It isn't long in this world. It either needs to be replaced or the entire pavilion removed for something else to take its place.
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Huh???
Dreamfinder and Figment done with a proper budget won't be able to fix Imagination so we should just shove in the subpar Inside Out IP? Replacing the IP of a "failed attraction" doesn't instantly make it not a failed attraction.
I said a proper HUGE budget is required and NOT REALISTIC (More money after wasting it twice before). Inside Out IP is not subpar and it's a step up from a non-entity like Dreamfinder and Figment. There's well developed characters in Inside Out.
Sometimes starting over with a new IP might just work instead of trying for the FOURTH
Mac Tonight
Well-Known Member
Right, because we've never known Disney to build things with a huge budget...
Also, seeing as he's been around MUCH longer than IO and represents things like the Flower and Garden festival, calling Figment a "non-entity" just shows a real lack of understanding of the character. Especially when your next statement insists that there are well-developed characters in Inside Out. They're as "well developed" as the body parts in Cranium Command.