EPCOT Inside Out to Replace Journey into Imagination with Figment?

Bender123

Well-Known Member
The very last scene is correct because it's a story. The ride is a story about how the institute is incorrect, their assumption at the beginning, and the slow education of our host by figment that imagination works best when it's set free (final scene).

Figment is constantly interfering with Dr. Channing because he's trying to get him to lighten up, relax about all that analytic senses stuff, and instead have fun and be whymsically creative with an unlimited imagination.

Now, whether that is well executed is up to you. It's a pretty poor attraction in my eyes, but it most certainly does not contain a toxic message, nor an anti-tony anti-figment message, either.

I love me some Figment, but wow did this escalate quickly...On the plus side of this conspiracy talk, I have a new justification for taking recreational drugs.

"You must be this high to appreciate the JIYI ride experience as a physical embodiment of office politics"
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
And why choose to keep Dr. Channing or the Honey, I Shrunk the Audience Institute setting entirely when it was deemed so unpopular? They very easily could’ve utilized Dreamfinder and atleast tried to bring the original spirit back when Figment was initially planned to return. Keep in mind, most of the show scenes *were* changed from what they were in Your Imagination, with the main exception being the gravity lab/Upside Down House. Besides that, everything was changed. So I wouldn’t necessarily blame budget on that. That’s a creative decision, and a terrible one at that.
Because they still wanted to commit to the idea of an interconnected Imagination Institute as HISTA was still popular in addition to the budgetary problems.

The biggest hole of your wacky conspiracy theory is that the current ride is trashing Tony and Figment fans is that Nigel Channing is never portrayed as being in the right. Instead, he is a stuffy British authority figure that cannot deal with anything remotely fun or risky that would be perfectly at home as the antagonist of a 1960s live-action Disney film, keeping with how terrified he is of lawsuits during the Honey 3D movie. We may get caught up in Figment's pranks, but he's saving us from the boredom of riding through hearing tests and a visit to the optometrist.

The reason Imagination keeps getting put off is because people there range from being Ride or Die on a Dreamfinder reboot that keeps getting put off by IP projects at other Pavilions or just really not wanting to put down Old Purpler for an IP flavor of the month and hoping the execs lose enough interest in said flavor to try pitching Dreamfinder again.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Because they still wanted to commit to the idea of an interconnected Imagination Institute as HISTA was still popular in addition to the budgetary problems.

The biggest hole of your wacky conspiracy theory is that the current ride is trashing Tony and Figment fans is that Nigel Channing is never portrayed as being in the right. Instead, he is a stuffy British authority figure that cannot deal with anything remotely fun or risky that would be perfectly at home as the antagonist of a 1960s live-action Disney film, keeping with how terrified he is of lawsuits during the Honey 3D movie. We may get caught up in Figment's pranks, but he's saving us from the boredom of riding through hearing tests and a visit to the optometrist.

The reason Imagination keeps getting put off is because people there range from being Ride or Die on a Dreamfinder reboot that keeps getting put off by IP projects at other Pavilions or just really not wanting to put down Old Purpler for an IP flavor of the month and hoping the execs lose enough interest in said flavor to try pitching Dreamfinder again.
I don’t doubt your whole reasoning on the whole aspect of pitching Dreamfinder. But I believe there’s more to that. Oh HISTA was “popular” alright. Popular thanks to park op manipulation of changing the Magic Eye Theater line queue, advertising the movie as the *main* attraction in the pavilion as opposed to the ride and imageworks (which can be heard in the monorail spiel I posted here), all the while, seemingly intentionally getting JII attendance numbers down in order to get Kodak’s attention to do a complete overhaul on it... coincidentally after the whole closure and seasonal reopening of Horizons.... WDI pitched the idea of a revolutionary “Honey”-based ride with high tech technology (which Convinced Kodak and other Disney execs to greenlight the project) (view the Epcot Legacy Imagination article I linked). Along with Figment kept but reduced to a cameo (thanks to letter protests sent to Kodak when word got around of the original ride’s closure) (look at the “Save Imagination” website screenshot I posted). However once Eisner’s budget cuts thanks to the DL Paris and other factors set in. It just made the project all the worse. (See the Epcot Legacy article link I posted aswell as the statements made by one of the shareholders who helped “Bring Figment” Back”, Mike (Cheshire Figment))

Sound at all familiar to the recent rumors we’ve been hearing of WDI pitching an Inside Out attraction with Figment reduced to a cameo (Your Imagination all over again), when thankfully Pete Docter intervened and rejected the pitch and commissioned guest surveys to prove to WDI Figment was still indeed popular? (Jim Hill has also reported this same rumor in one of his recent podcasts).

And speaking of which, yes, your perception of the story is right. *However*, why do you think they’d use and portray Channing as the “stuffy authority figure who’s “never right” that cannot deal with anything remotely fun or risky” in the ride being constantly “upstaged” by the “free-thinking, creative, imaginative individual” with a supposedly “upside down” way of thinking. Please, do think about that for a moment. Try and think about what the whole inspiration and thought process behind the storyline and character roles were. Of course Figment proves his way of thinking to be right in the end. But in what way?? ...By constantly interfering and causing mischief to “Poor Channing” trying to run his tour with his “captured and controlled” way of thinking (just as it was in Your Imagination. *Who* was the imagineer that created Journey Into Your Imagination that also had involvement with Honey, I Shrunk the Audience? Look it up) .... then Figment makes “a big stink” that stops Channing’s tour before showing his and the Friends of Figment’s (all the multiple Figments on the ceiling and at the end) “upside down” way of thinking is the right way.

Am I the only one who finds it really odd they wouldn’t rather portray Figment’s view on Imagination as a more positive view of creative thinking. (Abstract concepts and ideas combined in new and unique ways to create new things), as it was in the original ride. I’m just saying...
Infact, it makes you wonder why they couldn’t have just instead utilized Channing in a similar manner to Dreamfinder and Figment again as the pure, childlike, curious character learning more about creativity through Channing. But mainly that’s just my own criticism.

And then to have it end with Channing saying “Well if you can’t beat him, join him”, then Figment congratulating Channing at the end by saying he “knew he’d get it cause he’s got a wonderful imagination”....
then getting blasted at the end with a room with seemingly every homage to the original ride you can think of and right after, Dr. Channing as the Horizons moon at the finale is just really odd to me. Seems to be a pretty oddly specific reference after all that, doesn’t it? Same goes for the Rose scent tank in the Smell Lab before spraying us with skunk instead.
Just seems overall to be really cynical and in poor taste to me.
Almost makes you wonder if that “mischief making nuisance” characterization of Figment was also intentional to perhaps *make* him unpopular, so they’d have a reason to completely get rid of him in the future. Thankfully that hasn’t happened. But still.. it makes you wonder.

Another thing worth mention is in the Epcot Legacy article, it mentions this whole “feud” and “political aspect” of WDI at the time also. Supposedly some execs “not playing well with others” and “being envious of Tony’s position at the time”, not to mention Marc Davis’s grudge on Tony thanks to Big Thunder being greenlit as opposed to Western river expedition. Which.. looking back at that time period and Tony’s position at that time. It would make a whole lot of sense. Even when thinking of Figment’s popularity alone at the park during that time compared to the other attractions, that would make a lot of sense as to what perhaps fueled the urge to get Journey Into Imagination closed and what the inspiration behind the new portrayal of Figment was .

Which ultimately sorta becomes the reason why Figment is still constantly targeted for removal still. Add that with the risk-averse, narrow “film IP” mandate mindset from the current CEOs that don’t have any sort of grasp or understanding of the popularity or potential investment of the original Journey Into Imagination, Dreamfinder, and Figment. And it becomes much more clear just how big of an issue this is.
 
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DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
Figment and Dreamfinder may both still be very popular, but to suggest they can fix their previous mishandling by returning the original successful attraction with a huge budget, which is necessary, doesn’t seem realistic. Inside Out as the maligned film IP is a good replacement for the current failed Imagination attraction. Imagineering has no one to blame but itself for mishandling Figment and Dreamfinder, but Epcot doesn’t need to keep trying to rescue it as a stupid and futile gesture.
 

ᗩLᘿᑕ ֊ᗩζᗩᗰ

Hᴏᴜsᴇ ᴏʄ  Mᴀɢɪᴄ
Premium Member
Figment and Dreamfinder may both still be very popular, but to suggest they can fix their previous mishandling by returning the original successful attraction with a huge budget, which is necessary, doesn’t seem realistic. Inside Out as the maligned film IP is a good replacement for the current failed Imagination attraction. Imagineering has no one to blame but itself for mishandling Figment and Dreamfinder, but Epcot doesn’t need to keep trying to rescue it as a stupid and futile gesture.

This all may be true but most folks (Disney excluded it seems) would rather have both and not the closure of a much beloved (or at least well-known) attraction in favor of Inside Out. It would make much more sense (again most folks) to have Inside Out take over a shuttered, long-closed attraction or build elsewhere. I would think the best outcome for an Inside Out attraction in Epcot would be to build in the old Cranium Command area. The only thing now is for Disney Imagineers to strong arm Pixar into letting them use this space so Figment and company can live for another day. Does Pete Docter have the clout needed to OK the rumored Cranium Command overlay... maybe to leverage for a Dreamfinder movie?
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
This all may be true but most folks (Disney excluded it seems) would rather have Both and not the closure of a much beloved (or at least well-known) attraction in favor of Inside Out. It would make much more sense (again most folks) to have Inside Out take over a shuttered, long-closed attraction or build elsewhere. I would think the best outcome for an Inside Out attraction in Epcot would be to build in the old Cranium Command area. The only thing now is for Disney Imagineers to strong arm Pixar into letting them use this space so Figment and company can live for another day. Does Pete Docter have the clout needed to OK the speculated Cranium Command overlay... maybe to leverage for a Dreamfinder movie?
This is a non-response. Cranium Command is no more. Wonders of Life pavilion will soon be Play Pavilion. So where do you want Inside Out to go? Imagination is in need of rescue. It isn't long in this world. It either needs to be replaced or the entire pavilion removed for something else to take its place.
 

Mac Tonight

Well-Known Member
Figment and Dreamfinder may both still be very popular, but to suggest they can fix their previous mishandling by returning the original successful attraction with a huge budget, which is necessary, doesn’t seem realistic. Inside Out as the maligned film IP is a good replacement for the current failed Imagination attraction. Imagineering has no one to blame but itself for mishandling Figment and Dreamfinder, but Epcot doesn’t need to keep trying to rescue it as a stupid and futile gesture.
Huh???
Dreamfinder and Figment done with a proper budget won't be able to fix Imagination so we should just shove in the subpar Inside Out IP? Replacing the IP of a "failed attraction" doesn't instantly make it not a failed attraction.
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
Huh???
Dreamfinder and Figment done with a proper budget won't be able to fix Imagination so we should just shove in the subpar Inside Out IP? Replacing the IP of a "failed attraction" doesn't instantly make it not a failed attraction.
I said a proper HUGE budget is required and NOT REALISTIC (More money after wasting it twice before). Inside Out IP is not subpar and it's a step up from a non-entity like Dreamfinder and Figment. There's well developed characters in Inside Out.

Sometimes starting over with a new IP might just work instead of trying for the FOURTH THIRD time with Imagination.
 

Mac Tonight

Well-Known Member
I said a proper HUGE budget is required and NOT REALISTIC. Inside Out IP is not subpar and it's a step up from a non-entity like Dreamfinder and Figment. There's well developed characters in Inside Out.

Sometimes starting over with a new IP might just work instead of trying for the FOURTH THIRD time with Imagination.
Right, because we've never known Disney to build things with a huge budget... 🙄

Also, seeing as he's been around MUCH longer than IO and represents things like the Flower and Garden festival, calling Figment a "non-entity" just shows a real lack of understanding of the character. Especially when your next statement insists that there are well-developed characters in Inside Out. They're as "well developed" as the body parts in Cranium Command.
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
381140


TLDR version of this thread...
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
Right, because we've never known Disney to build things with a huge budget... 🙄

Also, seeing as he's been around MUCH longer than IO and represents things like the Flower and Garden festival, calling Figment a "non-entity" just shows a real lack of understanding of the character. Especially when your next statement insists that there are well-developed characters in Inside Out. They're as "well developed" as the body parts in Cranium Command.
Spending $1 Billion on Star Wars seems justified, but not for Dreamfinder and Figment. Yes, educate me on my understanding of Figment. We all need education to put us into our place of why we should care about characters barely featured in Imagination anymore.

Inside Out had the benefit of a 2 hour movie where we know much more about the characters than Dreamfinder and Figment and much bigger audiences than the entire history of the Imagination attraction.
 

Bender123

Well-Known Member
Spending $1 Billion on Star Wars seems justified, but not for Dreamfinder and Figment. Yes, educate me on my understanding of Figment. We all need education to put us into our place of why we should care about characters barely featured in Imagination anymore.

Inside Out had the benefit of a 2 hour movie where we know much more about the characters than Dreamfinder and Figment and much bigger audiences than the entire history of the Imagination attraction.

Figment is still one of the highest grossing merch characters at WDW...

Based on the amount of sales and attention he gets at WDW, its actually amazing that he hasn't gotten a real shot at expanding beyond the parks. One of the reasons he was brought back was because of the massive hole his disappearance left in the merch sales budget.
 

Mac Tonight

Well-Known Member
Spending $1 Billion on Star Wars seems justified, but not for Dreamfinder and Figment. Yes, educate me on my understanding of Figment. We all need education to put us into our place of why we should care about characters barely featured in Imagination anymore.

Inside Out had the benefit of a 2 hour movie where we know much more about the characters than Dreamfinder and Figment.
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Dude, you make me laugh.

No one is suggesting spending a billion dollars on Imagination. That's all you.
Secondly, Figment (and Dreamfinder) has existed since 1983. Not only in his attraction, but also in cartoons.
But yes please, keep calling him a "non-entity" and insisting that Inside Out emotions are more developed and therefore deserve to take over the pavilion.
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
Box office mojo. Inside Out : Worldwide: $857,611,174

Dude, you make me laugh.

No one is suggesting spending a billion dollars on Imagination. That's all you.
Secondly, Figment (and Dreamfinder) has existed since 1983. Not only in his attraction, but also in cartoons.
But yes please, keep calling him a "non-entity" and insisting that Inside Out emotions are more developed and therefore deserve to take over the pavilion.
I used $1 Billion as a significant sum. They need at least $100 million to have a decent attraction, but no money needs to be spent on Imagination with Dreamfinder and Figment. Just keep the wreck indefinitely with barely any support. Or no one will miss them if they don't have an attraction with them in it. Both can continue to sell merchandise in Epcot without an attraction. Inside Out will be a new attraction that will attract it's own following.
 

Mac Tonight

Well-Known Member
Box office mojo. Inside Out : Worldwide: $857,611,174

I used $1 Billion as a significant sum. They need at least $100 million to have a decent attraction, but no money needs to be spent on Imagination with Dreamfinder and Figment. Just keep the wreck indefinitely with barely any support. Or no one will miss them if they don't have an attraction with them in it. Both can continue to sell merchandise in Epcot without an attraction. Inside Out will be a new attraction that will attract it's own following.
OK. This discussion clearly isn't gonna go anywhere, so let's just agree to disagree. Keep pining for that Inside Out attraction. There's one nearing completion in DCA as we speak!
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
I said a proper HUGE budget is required and NOT REALISTIC (More money after wasting it twice before). Inside Out IP is not subpar and it's a step up from a non-entity like Dreamfinder and Figment. There's well developed characters in Inside Out.

Sometimes starting over with a new IP might just work instead of trying for the FOURTH THIRD time with Imagination.
The problem with your argument is, is the original theme with Dreamfinder & Figment was very successful. The “Honey, I Shrunk the Audience” themed overlays that came after were the issues. If anything, it seems more or less to prove the point that film IP is not the way to go.
 

DanielBB8

Well-Known Member
The problem with your argument is, is the original theme with Dreamfinder & Figment was very successful. The “Honey, I Shrunk the Audience” themed overlays that came after were the issues. If anything, it seems more or less to prove the point that film IP is not the way to go.
It's not a problem. You can't get over the fact that they can't go back. If they could, they would have brought Horizons back and numerous other attractions. Since Imagineering ruined Imagination, it makes no sense to revive the attraction as it was. They're not going to fund massive amounts of money to bring it back. It makes no financial sense. It's an over 20 year attraction.

Okay, now I have to say your argument is a non-sequitur. It doesn't follow that a film IP shouldn't be attempted.
 

FigmentsBrightIdeas

Well-Known Member
Also, let’s not forget that there was clearly an effort to put more development into the characters with the recent Marvel Disney Kingdoms Figment origin story comic (which were *extremely* successful by the way). So to say that Inside Out has more development than Figment is a bit of a lie. The original had plenty of development for the characters aswell. They didn’t need that much development to understand to begin with, as the entire theme was creativity and imagination. A theme and concept we *all* can easily understand.
 

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