Rumor Inside Out to Replace Journey into Imagination with Figment?

[Kman101]

This is actually my very first post having read Martin for years now. I for one see it the way you do Kman101.

Martin's point re Epcot is a lot stronger in Future World, which as originally conceived and implemented was an amazing idea and truly inspiring and educational. The World Showcase even as originally conceived is a bad joke -- the idea that Americans (largely Americans) should believe that the UK is anything like that pavilion, or that any of the countries are anything like those pavilions, is laughable from day 1 and the whole concept is sort of cheapening in my view. Therefore turning the World Showcase into a sort of awesome "International Land" extension of the Magic Kingdom where each pavilion is linked up with a Disney film that is based directly (Mary Poppins; Rat) or loosely (Frozen) in the same culture, is actually quite cool. And if there were space for this at the MK it would fit right in, and even as a blank slate idea sounds great. I can easily talk myself into thinking this is better than the original World Showcase concept.

So I end up basically agreeing with Martin that Guardians and Nemo are sad for Future World, but disagreeing that Frozen, Mary Poppins, Rat, are bad for the World Showcase.

I think Big Hero 6 could work in Future World, as could Inside Out (if Inside Out had been Cranium Command's replacement, that is, I don't really feel the need for a full Inside Out ride, a theater show feels like a good choice for it.) It's about the only IP I'd want there that could somewhat, IMO, of course, fit the park if they so insist on IPs, at least use ones that can truly fit if you tried. I agree Guardians isn't the right choice. Nemo could have been better implemented, the IP isn't necessarily the problem here, but I know for some it is. I don't exactly feel they're necessary but I also don't have an issue if they use them well, which in a lot of cases, they don't. I agree that Future World should be mostly IP free.

But with World Showcase, I take no issue with Mary or Rat or Coco (too bad it's not happening at the moment). I take more issue with Frozen because it's not set exactly in Norway, if it were a Scandinavia pavilion and (or if Frozen was actually said to take place in Norway, but even then I sort of resist the whole 'princesses' in the WS for some reason), and if Frozen Ever After was built behind or off to the side, I'd be a little more accepting. A little. But I'd prefer a Vikings ride similar to Pirates at the pavilion. I guess I give Mary and Rat and Coco a pass because they're set in where they're being placed. Frozen was a knee jerk reaction and an attempt at a quick fix to get a hot IP into the park. I don't feel the same about Mary, Rat and hopefully one day Coco. I know if I support some I should support Frozen but I can't totally.

 

[Bender123]

This isn't 100% true, the turntable was split up to become queue, load, first scene (preshow, if you could call it that) and a small portion of the current Image Works (marked by the cylindrical pattern and a ramp, as you mentioned)

There are also areas in image works that cross over the former ride track/pit. You can literally stomp on them and the floor is hollow. If you spend more than about 15 minutes stomping on the ground, you can pretty much map out the finale of the original ride.

You get some weird looks doing it...but I did get to talk to a very nice older cast member who knew exactly what I was doing and spent fifteen minutes discussing the old ride with me.

 

[ford91exploder]

no doubt about that but if the IP use contains quality you get a super success

A lot of times when I read these forums I read a lot of hate and disgust for IP's. Everything Disney does involves IP's. If you love Disney you really love their IP's. Even the countries in Epcot are IP's. They are Disney's version of those places.

I'll admit sometimes they put IP's together that feels like its a stretch to put them together, but they do have limited space, money and time to work with, and yes I know about the billions in profit they make every year.

They could have added Frozen to the Magic Kingdom when they were working on the Fantasyland expansion and replaced the speedway or Dumbo or even went further back, but they chose to add it to Epcot and that decision will probably make a lot more money for the company.

A lot of readers won't like this, but I don't think they should stop there either. Bring back an updated Snow White dark ride for Germany and a Pinocchio ride for Italy. Add a ride using the folk heroes of the united states behind the American pavilion on par with Splash Mountain, a Cave of Wonders in Morocco, a Mulan coaster in China, Coco in Mexico, India with the Jungle Book and change the name to The Discovery Kingdom. Then change the name of the studios to the Fantasmic Kingdom and the Animal Kingdom to the Wild Kingdom.

Come visit the four kingdoms of Walt Disney World.

And after saying all that I hope they continue to take chances and develop new IP's like the pirates, Haunted House, or Jungle Cruise.

I hope one day it takes two or three days to see each park because they are filled to the brim with IP's.

Remember every IP was once an original idea.

Original Ideas are no longer allowed at TWDC only proven financially successful franchises are allowed

 

[gustaftp]

The World Showcase even as originally conceived is a bad joke -- the idea that Americans (largely Americans) should believe that the UK is anything like that pavilion, or that any of the countries are anything like those pavilions, is laughable from day 1 and the whole concept is sort of cheapening in my view.

I strongly disagree with you on that point. I have travelled to many of the real-world locations presented -- some of them multiple times to the point where I have made good friends (as well as blood relatives who live there or are from there) -- and EPCOT does a respectful and admirable job of representing the general look and feel of the most famous parts of those countries. For example, practically every small town in Switzerland and southern Germany/Austria looks like what is presented in the Germany pavilion.

Here I am with my Oma in her hometown in Germany. Which looked a lot like the EPCOT Germany, the real thing was obviously a lot larger and with more depth and history.

 

[Higginbotham587]

I strongly disagree with you on that point. I have travelled to many of the real-world locations presented -- some of them multiple times to the point where I have made good friends (as well as blood relatives who live there or are from there) -- and EPCOT does a respectful and admirable job of representing the general look and feel of the most famous parts of those countries. For example, practically every small town in Switzerland and southern Germany/Austria looks like what is presented in the Germany pavilion.

Here I am with my Oma in her hometown in Germany. Which looked a lot like the EPCOT Germany, the real thing was obviously a lot larger and with more depth and history.
View attachment 277293

Strangely enough no one is dressed in embarrassing period outfits that are highly specific to one region, and if Germany is meant to be portrayed by tiny towns in Switzerland then I guess that is one portrayal -- another would be Berlin, which looks absolutely nothing like the pavilion. I have been to every country in the World Showcase except for Morocco. They are caricatures and cheap ones at that. The UK one I find particularly obscene because I lived there for years. I'm not saying the presentations are disrespectful, I'm saying they are tacky, unrepresentative, and do not in any real sense educate homebound Americans about the countries. What educates them, if anything, are the cast members who come from those countries. I'm fine keeping the minimal education that provides and adding MK style rides.

 

[marni1971]

There are also areas in image works that cross over the former ride track/pit. You can literally stomp on them and the floor is hollow. If you spend more than about 15 minutes stomping on the ground, you can pretty much map out the finale of the original ride.

You get some weird looks doing it...but I did get to talk to a very nice older cast member who knew exactly what I was doing and spent fifteen minutes discussing the old ride with me.

You too

 

[csm]

"WDWMagic: Staying on topic since 199NEVER™"

 

[simbastitch]

Strangely enough no one is dressed in embarrassing period outfits that are highly specific to one region, and if Germany is meant to be portrayed by tiny towns in Switzerland then I guess that is one portrayal -- another would be Berlin, which looks absolutely nothing like the pavilion. I have been to every country in the World Showcase except for Morocco. They are caricatures and cheap ones at that. The UK one I find particularly obscene because I lived there for years. I'm not saying the presentations are disrespectful, I'm saying they are tacky, unrepresentative, and do not in any real sense educate homebound Americans about the countries. What educates them, if anything, are the cast members who come from those countries. I'm fine keeping the minimal education that provides and adding MK style rides.

As a British person, I find it quite funny how inaccurate it is. Most of the drinks in the pub are things we'd never dream/think of ordering in a pub and we certainly don't dress like that! So it does make me think that the rest of the pavilions are probably pretty inauthentic. Having said that, it doesn't put me off going, I think I just see them as fun caricatures of the countries they're supposed to be.

 

[Higginbotham587]

As a British person, I find it quite funny how inaccurate it is. Most of the drinks in the pub are things we'd never dream/think of ordering in a pub and we certainly don't dress like that! So it does make me think that the rest of the pavilions are probably pretty inauthentic. Having said that, it doesn't put me off going, I think I just see them as fun caricatures of the countries they're supposed to be.

Exactly. Which is why adding fantasy IP rides that are also caricatures is not the end of all things and is actually a value add. I also like the WS a ton -- I just don't think it is some sort of masterpiece the way FW was.

 

[Bairstow]

As a British person, I find it quite funny how inaccurate it is. Most of the drinks in the pub are things we'd never dream/think of ordering in a pub and we certainly don't dress like that! So it does make me think that the rest of the pavilions are probably pretty inauthentic. Having said that, it doesn't put me off going, I think I just see them as fun caricatures of the countries they're supposed to be.

Accurate World Showcase: everyone in every country is wearing hoodies and eating Chinese takeaway.

 

[Higginbotham587]

As a British person, I find it quite funny how inaccurate it is. Most of the drinks in the pub are things we'd never dream/think of ordering in a pub and we certainly don't dress like that! So it does make me think that the rest of the pavilions are probably pretty inauthentic. Having said that, it doesn't put me off going, I think I just see them as fun caricatures of the countries they're supposed to be.

I mean, Mary Poppins feeds into that classic American stereotype of the English that all of them talk like Dick Van . Just like the silly pub isn't horrible neither will a Mary Poppins attraction be.

 

[Higginbotham587]

Accurate World Showcase: everyone in every country is wearing hoodies and eating Chinese takeaway.

In the UK they would have a Nandos and a Byron Burger as the restaurants.

 

[gustaftp]

Strangely enough no one is dressed in embarrassing period outfits that are highly specific to one region, and if Germany is meant to be portrayed by tiny towns in Switzerland then I guess that is one portrayal -- another would be Berlin, which looks absolutely nothing like the pavilion. I have been to every country in the World Showcase except for Morocco. They are caricatures and cheap ones at that. The UK one I find particularly obscene because I lived there for years. I'm not saying the presentations are disrespectful, I'm saying they are tacky, unrepresentative, and do not in any real sense educate homebound Americans about the countries. What educates them, if anything, are the cast members who come from those countries. I'm fine keeping the minimal education that provides and adding MK style rides.

Again, Southern Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Slovakia all look similar to that. Why on earth would they make a place look like Berlin as opposed to the romantic "Belle Epoque" (I know that's a French term, but applies equally here). Berlin has an interesting history, but if you find a representation of small town Germany to be tacky, would you rather see a representation of the Brandenberg Gate or the Fernsehturm at EPCOT? I imagine if you are howling at the way Germany is, then you would especially be howling at a Fernsehturm built with forced perspective. In fact, one of the only things I find truly tacky about the World Showcase is the representation of the Eiffel Tower.

It should also be noted that most Americans will never see most of these locations, just as most Germans, English, Japanese (or whomever) are going to be able to see a broad swath of North America. My Swiss and German friends are obsessed with New York City and Hollywood, and as much as they have enjoyed time here in the states, it only occurred to them to visit Minnesota because I live here.

Also, I went to a Swiss party where everyone but me was wearing "embarassing period outfits". Obviously people don't wear period clothes everyday -- but they don't make the garb any less a part of the country's heritage. After all, it isn't like most Americans dress like farmers wearing straw hats in the 1800s. Part of the point is to present a "festival" atmosphere. In fact, the World Showcase is probably the best example of the concept known as the "Festival Marketplace".

 

[Higginbotham587]

In fact, one of the only things I find truly tacky about the World Showcase is the representation of the Eiffel Tower.

And this gets to the rub of our disagreement. I love the Eiffel tower, France does at least look like Paris, the largest city in the country, and would love a Brandenburg gate in Germany, or even a representation of the wall. I don't love forcing young people from these countries to dress and participate in dioramas that are these tacky caricatures of their homes.

America is so much more diverse than any of the countries in the WS that it is not a great comparison, but I get your point.

Goes without saying I appreciate your different point of view and have enjoyed the back and forth!

 

[marni1971]

"WDWMagic: Staying on topic since 199NEVER™"

If there was something to stay OT about we would...

 

[Bender123]

If there was something to stay OT about we would...

We have topics? Woah...slow down there!

 

[larryz]

Strangely enough no one is dressed in embarrassing period outfits that are highly specific to one region, and if Germany is meant to be portrayed by tiny towns in Switzerland then I guess that is one portrayal -- another would be Berlin, which looks absolutely nothing like the pavilion. I have been to every country in the World Showcase except for Morocco. They are caricatures and cheap ones at that. The UK one I find particularly obscene because I lived there for years. I'm not saying the presentations are disrespectful, I'm saying they are tacky, unrepresentative, and do not in any real sense educate homebound Americans about the countries. What educates them, if anything, are the cast members who come from those countries. I'm fine keeping the minimal education that provides and adding MK style rides.

Should you decide to dine in the Biergarten, you'll note its distinctively Bavarian feel... and a liter of whatever they're serving that day can be profoundly educational.

 

[Bender123]

Should you decide to dine in the Biergarten, you'll note its distinctively Bavarian feel... and a liter of whatever they're serving that day can be profoundly educational.

Some of these issues people have with the countries not feeling authentic enough sound like the crazy people who wonder why there isn't more stuff in American Adventure about all the bad things America has done...

Well...when we are celebrating the nations, we tend to want to put our best forward, not our worst. You go to Germany and you expect beer, food and dirndls. There is always room in my world for girls in dirndls. Its like complaining that Mexico isn't authentic, because their water wont make you poop continuously for two weeks.

 

[larryz]

Its like complaining that Mexico isn't authentic, because their water wont make you poop continuously for two weeks.

...and the jury is still out on that one...

 

[ppete1975]

Mary, Rat and hopefully one day Coco. .

What I'm most excited for is 2 of those they are not rides that are replacing anything, I think that's part that's hurt the most lately is we lose something to gain something. Why not add things and keep things. Ive always said WS needed rides or at least things to do.