Imagination Demolition?

[Lee]

I thought Tony had basically been put in charge of Disneyland projects overall, and with the re-org didn't have much to do with projects solely built for WDW...

Pretty much true.
I don't think Tony is playing a big role in any Imagination refurb. At least I haven't heard his name mentioned with it. He has DL's Tomorrowland on his plate.

 

[TheBeatles]

In a nutshell:

There was a large rotating chassis (not a true `turntable`) with 5 identical showscenes arranged like a sliced piece of cake. Each scene had the suspended DreamCatcher, rear projection backdrop lighting, audio systems and visual effects (smoke, strobes etc.) - think of it like a fairground carousel suspended from above.

The ride track surrounded this for about 340 dgrees, with the entry and exit sections side by side. The ride system was a computer controlled Omnimover, with groups of 4 ride vehicles attached to each other making up a `train`. At load and unload the `trains` formed a continuous chain of vehicles, but as they left unload would accellerate slightly and thus split into groups of 4. As they reached the Flight to Imagaination scene and made the turn onto the circular track the Omnis would rotate 90 degrees right on their motion base, facing the rotating show scene. The speed of the train was adjusted to match the rotation and the vehicles would physically lock onto the rotating base ring - much like load at Kali River Rapids. For the next 2 and a half minutes or so the vehicles travelled locked to the rotating show scene, pointing sideways - though guests had no idea they were still moving. To them it seemed they were standing still, as did each guest watching each of the 5 show scenes. A unique way to present a `static` presentation to each guest at the same time in an Omnimover attraction.

Problems arose with the interlock of the ride vehicle and show scene. Cars would jam, not lock correctly, slip - all sorts of issues with the speed and pacing of the cars. Sometimes the attraction would cascade, sometimes force a 101 and restart, and on more than one occassion - after hours - empty cars derailed. There was also an issue with timing the cars, once bunched up again, to pace the original unload speedramp. This was removed not long after opening and a static floor replaced it. Cars also had difficulty in resuming their (variable) speed and spacing on a restart. The show scene issues were never fully resolved, and the idea eliminated in 1999. The rotating chassis was left intact, but bolted down and had various utilites run through it and supports driven through it for the current load area.

Today the ride system is still in use complete with rotating ride vehicles, and using the original idea of a train, but load and unload is static and using a fewer ammount of cars the vehicles are dispatched at longer intervals to enable a single showscene to be watched static throughout the attraction. The bunching of trains is eliminated too - todays attraction always has the groups of 4 cars separated. When one train reaches its next showscene all the other trains in use should be doing so too elsewhere on the track. Occasionally you`ll be stuck at the end of a showscene before moving on; this is Imaginations creep mode, usually waiting for a load or unload issue to be resolved since if one train stops in the attraction all the other trains have to too to keep the same spacing.

Also worthy of note is how much the `travelling sideways` concept is used today - but sadly to enable showscenes to be built on only one side of the track. By its very nature stopping to look at one side of the track means there are large empty spaces behind the riders view on the other side of the track. Only transition scenes have scenery on both sides of the track. And no, there are no original set pieces left behind curtains or similar. Very few 1983 items remain and those that do are more technical in nature.

When you think about it the 1999 to present day system is still quite remarkable. It`s just a shame it is on a curtailed track.

I hope that didn't take long to type.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[TOTGuy]

In a nutshell:

There was a large rotating chassis (not a true `turntable`) with 5 identical showscenes arranged like a sliced piece of cake. Each scene had the suspended DreamCatcher, rear projection backdrop lighting, audio systems and visual effects (smoke, strobes etc.) - think of it like a fairground carousel suspended from above.

The ride track surrounded this for about 340 dgrees, with the entry and exit sections side by side. The ride system was a computer controlled Omnimover, with groups of 4 ride vehicles attached to each other making up a `train`. At load and unload the `trains` formed a continuous chain of vehicles, but as they left unload would accellerate slightly and thus split into groups of 4. As they reached the Flight to Imagaination scene and made the turn onto the circular track the Omnis would rotate 90 degrees right on their motion base, facing the rotating show scene. The speed of the train was adjusted to match the rotation and the vehicles would physically lock onto the rotating base ring - much like load at Kali River Rapids. For the next 2 and a half minutes or so the vehicles travelled locked to the rotating show scene, pointing sideways - though guests had no idea they were still moving. To them it seemed they were standing still, as did each guest watching each of the 5 show scenes. A unique way to present a `static` presentation to each guest at the same time in an Omnimover attraction.

Problems arose with the interlock of the ride vehicle and show scene. Cars would jam, not lock correctly, slip - all sorts of issues with the speed and pacing of the cars. Sometimes the attraction would cascade, sometimes force a 101 and restart, and on more than one occassion - after hours - empty cars derailed. There was also an issue with timing the cars, once bunched up again, to pace the original unload speedramp. This was removed not long after opening and a static floor replaced it. Cars also had difficulty in resuming their (variable) speed and spacing on a restart. The show scene issues were never fully resolved, and the idea eliminated in 1999. The rotating chassis was left intact, but bolted down and had various utilites run through it and supports driven through it for the current load area.

Today the ride system is still in use complete with rotating ride vehicles, and using the original idea of a train, but load and unload is static and using a fewer ammount of cars the vehicles are dispatched at longer intervals to enable a single showscene to be watched static throughout the attraction. The bunching of trains is eliminated too - todays attraction always has the groups of 4 cars separated. When one train reaches its next showscene all the other trains in use should be doing so too elsewhere on the track. Occasionally you`ll be stuck at the end of a showscene before moving on; this is Imaginations creep mode, usually waiting for a load or unload issue to be resolved since if one train stops in the attraction all the other trains have to too to keep the same spacing.

Also worthy of note is how much the `travelling sideways` concept is used today - but sadly to enable showscenes to be built on only one side of the track. By its very nature stopping to look at one side of the track means there are large empty spaces behind the riders view on the other side of the track. Only transition scenes have scenery on both sides of the track. And no, there are no original set pieces left behind curtains or similar. Very few 1983 items remain and those that do are more technical in nature.

When you think about it the 1999 to present day system is still quite remarkable. It`s just a shame it is on a curtailed track.

Thanks for that Info. It had been so long. I was wondering about the difference between the load areas.

What did they do in the previous load area with a guest that was mobility impaired? Where they able to stop the vehicles?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Pretty much true.
I don't think Tony is playing a big role in any Imagination refurb. At least I haven't heard his name mentioned with it. He has DL's Tomorrowland on his plate.

Not to mention, isn't he the driving force behind the Little Mermaid attraction going into DCA? I thought a lot of that was his original design.

 

[PeterPan1985]

My mom read this thread and started crying because of her deep devotion to Figment

So peeps in the know...Figment isn't going again...right?

 

[Lee]

Not to mention, isn't he the driving force behind the Little Mermaid attraction going into DCA? I thought a lot of that was his original design.

Yeah, he's involved with that. It incorporates a fair amount of his original design from back in the 90's.

 

[The MaD Hatter]

My mom read this thread and started crying because of her deep devotion to Figment

So peeps in the know...Figment isn't going again...right?

Only people dumb enough to think that what people really want to do on their vacation is to sit in a pitch black corridor while watching a flash jibjab video would think it's a good idea to remove Figment from Imagination again. Oh wait... :lookaroun

Just kidding, just kidding! :hammer:

I would say there is ZERO chance of Figment being removed anytime soon.

 

[Captain Hank]

My mom read this thread and started crying because of her deep devotion to Figment

So peeps in the know...Figment isn't going again...right?

It's possible, but very, very doubtful. There was such a huge backlash when WDI tried to eliminate Figment for Journey Into Your Imagination. I doubt they'll want to deal with that again.

 

[dxwwf3]

He has DL's Tomorrowland on his plate.

:sohappy:

I hate I missed out on the 98 redo (I STILL think I would have loved Rocket Rods), but I can't wait to see what they do with this. I do think DL's Tomorrowland is better than the MK's current Tomorrowland, but there's still a lot of room for improvement. Hopefully it will be done the next time I get to go to DL (or my the time after that if I'm lucky and get to go again soon )

 

[Figment571]

I thought that the new ride system was going to be used for the Incredibles.
That's what I had read anyway.

 

[Lee]

I hate I missed out on the 98 redo (I STILL think I would have loved Rocket Rods), but I can't wait to see what they do with this.

Personally, I really liked TL98. The theme, colors, rides...all of it.
LOVED the Rods. I can barely imagine how cool they would have been with a full budget. If TL98 had the SM of today....wonderful....

 

[mousermerf]

Rods were a good idea gone horribly wrong - what was built never should have been built.

Also, moving the astro orbitor - bad idea.

Back to Imagination, Lee, speak..?

 

[PeterPan1985]

It's possible, but very, very doubtful. There was such a huge backlash when WDI tried to eliminate Figment for Journey Into Your Imagination. I doubt they'll want to deal with that again.

Thanks for the response...I kind of figured that Figment wouldn't be eradicated again, but I've seen crazier (and stupider) things at WDW during the last several years. Anything is possible...

 

[jt04]

Anything is possible...

You can say that again!

 

[imagineer boy]

Eh, the 98 rehab was simply a disaster. All they did was add an ugly new color scheme unlike WDW's which got amazing theming enhancements. The new pait job is better, but I still wish they'd do somthing along the line of WDW's look.

 

[ImagineerAndy]

Yeah, he's involved with that. It incorporates a fair amount of his original design from back in the 90's.

Edit-
Yeah sorry, I've just checked and got that one wrong, he is now kinda totally Disneyland and may help supervise DCA expansion.
But of course he will look in on it and have a personal vested interest.

 

[Lee]

Back to Imagination, Lee, speak..?

Nothing to tell. I'm a bit out of the loop on this. I was only aware of minor refurb work going on at Imagination, not the beginning of a major overhaul.

Actually, I have't yet had time to confirm it, but I believe this may be much ado about nothing at this point. Time frames aren't matching up with what I was told in the past.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

probably because of the delay with SSE

 

[joel_maxwell]

You`re welcome :wave: Shame it is one of my embarrassing first versions - thankfully I`ve improved my skills since then! The latest, far higher quality and longer version is of course available for free at the usual places
Interesting. It`s known that the Spiderman motion base overtook the EMV motion base as state of the art, and nothing has quite matched it since. Yes, Poohs Honey Hunt in Tokyo advanced certain technologies but isn`t a true motion base.

The original JII ride system was, like all the original Futureworld ride systems, far ahead of its time - cutting edge, and much like Test Track was a little too far ahead. The main problems were never fixed, just removed (see Turntable interlock issues parts 1-10) though with todays technology it`d be easy to overcome. As I mentioned earlier the original rotating Flight to Imagaination show scene chasis is still in the building, but will never rotate again. This is pure speculation but it wouldn`t be difficult to remove it and install a new one. Also, once again, it`d be easy to replicate the experience in other ways with todays technology.

Like Adam said it isn`t so much if, but when. This project has been on and off for a few years, and its budget raised, lowered and `borrowed`. All this may actually be a good thing in the long run otherwise we may already be complaining about a lame 4th version which just opened. Following the trend for the 3rd version of Epcot as discussed elsewhere the bar is raised and standards appear to be rising again. The main pieces needed for a knock-em-dead version to end all versions are now available. We just need to hope they are all used to complete the jigsaw. Initial indications are very promissing.

martin, besides the obvious track that was removed to shorten the attraction, is the track that is existing still the original tarck layout (including height and elevation). i just dont seem to remember the track rising a bit especially during the slot machine scene. i might be losing my mind, err, wait, it was about 15 years ago that i rode the original version last.

my other inquiry is, in the new load area that is static and on part of the turn of the old turntable, the load platform that is cement and grey floor (if i recall) is that cement original or did they have to pour that area after the turntable effect was canned? if it is original, did part of the turntable sit on top of that load platform?

 

[CajunEpcotLover]

I don't remember the original all that well, but after viewing those videos, it looks like EPCOT lost something really amazing. The score, sets, story, everything of the original puts the new one to shame.




*wants to skip school tomorrow and drive to Florida right now*

Can I hitch a ride?