if Walt WAS racist, would you care?

[darthjohnny]

There are many rumors that Disney was both sexist and racist. But that can't be true. Everyone says Song of the South this, and that, but has anyone actually seen Song of the South? Probably not. The Disney A to Z Encyclopedia described it about Uncle Remus telling a kid about the story of Brer Rabbit. It said nothing about slavery or putting down people of other races. I doubt Disney was sexist either. Many of the early films had females as the main characters, they were in a sense the heroines of their stories.

 

[HomeofLove4Him]

What I have to wonder is........

If Walt were alive today, what would he think? Maybe his 'racism' was just a factor of the times he grew up in? But if he were alive today, would he care? Who knows... Money is the same color, no matter who it comes from. Sooo....

My whole point here is, we have to take *context* into consideration. For us, now and today, he would be considered racist--meaning, if we just look at the allegation (I don't know if it's fact) that 'negros' were initially excluded). But when WDW (or even Disneyland) opened, was excluding a certain race being 'racist' or was it normal? I guess I think that if Walt were alive today, he would not care...I think he was just going along with what was normal at the time.

BTW....I did find it interesting in my "100 Years of Magic" trading cards set, that the children running in through the main gate were all white... but also, as it says on the back of the card, admissions to Disneyland (this was July 17, 1955) was $1. Clearly things have changed LOL

 

[wedway71]

Yes, Walt was a huge racist.He had such a hatred for minorities that he had a Hispanic named Rick Gonzales work on Sleeping Beauty.He was sooo hateful of other races that he employed an African American named Floyd Norman who made a life long career as an animator with Disney.

Also to ad I really dont think he was Racist.I saw an origional W.E.D. artist rendition of the Matterhorn(sp?) around the early days of Disneyland and it showed both white and black guests walking in front of the attraction. Also one of Walts biggest Exec's during his time was Irving Ludwig who ran Disneys Film Distribution unit who happened to come from a Russian/Jewish backround educated and raised in Brooklyn.MY point is, this all happened before Affirmitive Action and Equal Oppurtunity laws came out so if Walt was truly Racist he had the right not to hire these ethnic individuals if he didnt want to.

 

[Windy.Mind]

He sounds racist....and YES! I CARE!:zipit: :zipit: :zipit: :zipit:

There are many rumors that Disney was both sexist and racist. But that can't be true. Everyone says Song of the South this, and that, but has anyone actually seen Song of the South? Probably not. The Disney A to Z Encyclopedia described it about Uncle Remus telling a kid about the story of Brer Rabbit. It said nothing about slavery or putting down people of other races. I doubt Disney was sexist either. Many of the early films had females as the main characters, they were in a sense the heroines of their stories.

 

[Connor002]

He sounds racist....and YES! I CARE!:zipit: :zipit: :zipit: :zipit:

Really now... to what extent?

 

[Windy.Mind]

You mean why i care?
Because Racism is wrong , its judging someone by their color , Black , White , Tan , Yellow.....(Green ). And its not a nice thing. Never judge a book by its cover.

 

[popsicletrees]

You mean why i care?
Because Racism is wrong , its judging someone by their color , Black , White , Tan , Yellow.....(Green ). And its not a nice thing. Never judge a book by its cover.

We all know what racism is and that it is wrong. I think Connor was wanting to know what you were basing your claim on.

 

[Connor002]

Because Racism is wrong

At the time?
No more "wrong" to the masses than smoking was.

The climate in which we live facilitates our values, such was the case with Walt, or any other occupant of the times. That which we consider wrong now was not considered so then, just so, in the future there will likely be scorn brought on our generations for "wrongs" of which we were not aware. Close-minded is the approach to condemn those of the past for not conforming to the standards of the present.

 

[Connor002]

We all know what racism is and that it is wrong. I think Connor was wanting to know what you were basing your claim on.

This is true.
Also, it was bait, so that I would be able to go on with my views of viewing the past without considering the context to events. :lookaroun

 

[Windy.Mind]

Yeah , I lost you at "At the Time..." :lookaroun

 

[ctwhalerman]

I've been thinking that even if Walt has personal racist/sexist views, he, as a businessman, would not (or should not) have acted on them. It makes no real business sense to exclude 10% of the American population just because of skin color. If you can't count on person's moral ethics to act right, a nice tug on his wallet will do it anyway.

 

[Windy.Mind]

Good point. Maybe I should just research a little. :veryconfu

 

[Spring Breeze]

I could believe he was a racist during perharps the earlier part of his life time. but he willingly casted a black man into his film song of the south. walt disney had a love for the people. i do believe that over time he became more accepting to others. walt disney i bet wasn't a hateful man. if he was you'd reliaze it

 

[Dagger]

I am very against racism -- although realistic enough to realize that all prejudice is a problem that will plague human beings forever -- I do believe that it could very well be possible that Walt was racist, especially based on the time period he was alive and the way the world/USA was at the time.

That said, as long as the Walt Disney company is not racist (and I believe they're not) then I have no problems.

The Lion King was out of Africa, but you're right, a prince and princess didn't come out of that (although Simba just couldn't wait to be king, he was, alas, just a lion. ) I do think there was a lot of backlash with Pocahontas and I remember even though I was 16, it was fresh in my mind that her and John Smith's relationship wasn't all fine and dandy. I also remember with Aladdin's release, offensive lyrics were removed from the beginning song. I think when dealing with the masses for the masses, many mistakes are going to be made a long the way, but like the Whoopi Goldberg "disclaimer", I don't think intentionally hiding the mistakes is the way to go... although some would argue that we might "grow out" of phases and it would come their time to be removed (I'm sure for more than one person, the CBJ comes to mind... while many others would be extremely upset about it, especially for nostalgic purposes.)


On a sidenote, my husband was reading about some communism propaganda relating to Walt on Wikipedia...

*eta* spelling

 

[Deadmanwalking]

Isn't everyone a little bit racist? I mean you are attracted so someone in part because of how they look physically. And since race certainly effect how each and everyone looks, the simple preference that someone might have of liking blondes or red-heads or whatever is a form of racism. When was the last time you ever went on a date with a random person? Even when we go on blind dates they are in large part influenced by the person that sets it up believing they know our likes and dislikes.

So who cares if Walt was racist, everybody is to some degree - get over it.

 

[Tramp]

Walt was not a racist.

I don't think it's fair to judge people from the past by today's standards. They did the best they could. 50 years from now surely some of the things we don't even notice that we do may be socially taboo.

That's how I look at it. Everything and everyone is a product of their time. I could think of a couple of horrific practices that are widely accepted in our culture today that might label us a barbaric and uncivilized 100+ years from now. Doesn't seem quite fair, does it, if that's our way of life today and we don't know any better.

Because our culture continues to evolve, we unfairly hold past generations to a standard of values which were non-existent in their day. And, I suspect we, too, will be held accountable one day by future generations to a standard of values yet to be set.

So could Walt be a racist at a time when racism was a widely accepted practice? Shall we condemn the man for a belief that no one condemned during his day? Absolutely not! I tend to believe that the accomplished legacy of Walt Disney best reflects what was in his heart and that legacy is, in itself, an evolving product of it's time. :wave:

 

[Tramp]

People evolve...we hope.

Don't forget Woodrow Wilson and George Wallace and Strom Thurmond and Trent Lott and Antonin Scalia and Barry Goldwater and Jesse Helms and...

...and let's not forget Robert Byrd, the current esteemed Senator from the State of West Virginia and former Ku Klux Klan member who proclaims to be the "Conscience of the Senate." :lol:

 

[sbkline]

This really doesn't show much or give credit to Walt being a racist or anything and the society in which he lived definitely had a perception of other peoples, but if you watch the Treasures involving the war cartoons. Those were all developed by the Walt Disney company...they were used as propaganda against our foes during WW2 and those films are filled with some of the most racial remarks I've ever seen in cartoons. Now, these films were of course developed for Americans so that they could laugh at the Japanese, Germans and other Communist countries at the time.

One, though I don't remember the title, dealt with American soldiers being over in Japan and the Japanese soldiers were hiding in the grass and the one wanted to shoot the American, but the other told him to wait and to shoot him in back. That, of course is not verbatim, but I couldn't believe I had heard that from a Disney cartoon - it shocked me so much that I laughed because I was in shock from hearing it. The stereotypes in those movies were so strong and I couldn't imagine the military or government having a company develop films like that today.

These cartoons are in no way proof that Walt was prejudice (sp?), because the gov't paid for and wanted those cartoons, but it's almost shocking in this day and time that cartoons like those could and are associated with Disney.

Of course, they are a part of history, and I don't think that any one or anything should be ashamed of it's past and by releasing those, the Disney Company has shown that it is not ashamed of them and not only that, those cartoons allowed for the funding of some of the most (now) beloved cartoons of that generation.

I don't think racism is even the intent of those cartoons. The intent of those cartoons was to whip up the patriotic spirit and motivate people to fight for their country and/or support those who are. And, rightly or wrongly, it's common for a country to villify and caricature its enemies in the press and in the comics for the purpose of "rallying the troops" so to speak. IMO, it has nothing to do with race.

In this hyper PC society, I find it pathetic that those cartoons which stereotype the Japanese are deemed "racist" and no longer shown, yet it is perfectly fine to continue to show the cartoons where the Germans are stereotyped and caricatured in the same way. For some reason, it's perfectly okay, by today's pathetic standards, to stereotype white Eurpoean races, but if you do the same to any other race, people screem bloody murder and practically accuse you of being a member of the KKK.

Again, all those cartoons were was an attempt to "de-humanize" the enemy, which all countries do, regardless of race.

And regardless, I find them funny and totally harmless and would like to see those cartoons without the jackbooted thugs of the politically correct leaving them on the cutting room floor.

 

[sbkline]

First off, I think it also depends on what defines "racism".

I'm not politically correct and I despise the pathetic modern habit of crying "racism" any time a stereotype or generalization is used. To me, racism is a blatant dislike of people simply because of their race. Making a stereotype is NOT racism. It's a harmless way to produce humor in a cartoon, or in a joke, etc. I could care less if someone stereotypes, or if I see stereotypes in cartoons. I'm of German decent and I've been stereotyped before based on that. For example, because my ancestry is German my mother in law once asked if I like Saur Kraut. To me, that's a stereotype, but guess what? I DID NOT CARE! I found it amusing and personally, I get sick and tired of all the mamby pamby boo freakin' hooing about stereotypes. We stereotype people of all races. So what? Big freakin' deal.

Now, regaring REAL racism, I disagree with this notion that it is only wrong in our time because our culture has decided it is wrong. I believe that there are absolute standards of right and wrong which apply to all people of all times in all places. Blatant racism (again, not this silly crap that people are always boo hooing about nowdays, such as a stereotype in a movie or a WDW attraction) has always been wrong and always will be. I don't care what sociatal standards are. Wrong is wrong and REAL racism is wrong. Period. I don't care what your cultural standards are. Human sacrifice is wrong too. I don't care if the culture of the time DOES say it is okay. It's still wrong. Absolute, objective standards of right and wrong don't change with the times. They are absolute and are binding at all times on all people.

And I don't believe that Walt was a true racist. He probably engaged in stereotyping and I don't give a flying fig about that if he did. He may have had attitudes that would be considered "racist" in this wimpish, sniveling, crybaby politically correct society in which we live now, but do I think he was a real racist as I defined above? No I don't.

But if he was, I don't know to what extent I would care. I mean, I realize he was a human being with faults like everyone, so I don't have some myth of him as being this perfect flawless individual. So it's not like I would have a bubble bursted if he were truly a racist. And he's been dead for almost 40 years, so I'm not sure what relevance it would have if I found that he were racist. So I guess I could say that I wouldn't really care that much.

 

[dazzer68]

wasnt he homophobic too? people have said to me i shouldnt be giving my money to the walt disney company because of that.
does that bother me as a gay man..nope.. it was the generation he lived in,most of the world today is more educated and tolerant than 'the good ole days!'
i say most of the world.....