if Walt WAS racist, would you care?

Dragonrider1227

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I was just chatting with a friend who believes Walt was a "Racist Biggot" and as we argued, he eventually said to just "Drop it" which makes me think I won, but it got me thinking. If unavoidable proof came up that Walt was a racist, would you actually care? In the long run, I don't think I would. I mean, obviously, he didn't let his thoughts on other people TOTALLY rule his life. He didn't go around killing people of what ever race he didn't like, he never put messeges in his shorts and films to hate what he hated, and to my knowledge, he never kept anyone out of Disneyland simple 'cause they were of a race he didn't like, if he was racist, it was simply a personal opinion and we all have our opinions so I can't help but think that if he was, as long as he never became the next Hitler, I wouldn't care.
 

napnet

Active Member
If he was racist then it would have been because of his ignorance... my great grandmother grew up on a country farm in the deep south and was racist, but it was just her ignorance of other races and what she was taught at the time. Racism against someones color is just that, ignorance of that race.

So because of that, if he was it wouldnt bother me. I didnt see anything he did to prove or show that he was. Walt just wanted to entertain everyone it seems.

Now i expect this thread to be locked soon due to the topic :lookaroun
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
I'm not totally sure that Walt was a racist. When Song of the South was made, sensibilities to race stereotyping in movies wasn't common, and never really complained about ( until the sixties of corse ). Heck, Peter Pan has the "ugg" saying sterotype indians dancing around. Was he predjudice against native americans too? Besides, Louis Amerstrong, and many other African-American performers performed in Disneyland during the Dixieland in Disneyland celebrations in Disneyland.

But back to the original point, if I found out Walt really was racist, then I'd pretty much have to accept that it was his own opinion, and as long as he didn't join the KKK or anything, I wouldn't really care.
 

Woody13

New Member
imagineer boy said:
I'm not totally sure that Walt was a racist. When Song of the South was made, sensibilities to race stereotyping in movies wasn't common, and never really complained about ( until the sixties of corse ). Heck, Peter Pan has the "ugg" saying sterotype indians dancing around. Was he predjudice against native americans too? Besides, Louis Amerstrong, and many other African-American performers performed in Disneyland during the Dixieland in Disneyland celebrations in Disneyland.

But back to the original point, if I found out Walt really was racist, then I'd pretty much have to accept that it was his own opinion, and as long as he didn't join the KKK or anything, I wouldn't really care.
You brought up an excellent example. Louis Armstrong and many other African-Americans were allowed to work at Disneyland. However, they could not visit as guests. Walt was a typical racist in 1955 as were most citizens of the USA.

Consider that most houses sold at that time had strict covenants that forbade "negros" from living in "white" housing areas unless they were employed as maids or servants in the same house.

Walt wanted to make money. The norm in 1955 was racial segregation and Walt was happy to comply.
 

dr_teeth90210

Active Member
I don't think Walt was a racist, I think he was more of a product of the time period in which he lived. A time period where segregation and media stereotypes was a normalcy.

With that being said, it's a shame that political correctness is ruining so many Disney classics.

For instance, take a look at these scenes that were banned from the current Fantasia DVD releases.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search=fantasia+disney&search_type=search_videos&search=Search

Also, it doesn't look like we'll ever see a release of Song of the South.:(
 
This really doesn't show much or give credit to Walt being a racist or anything and the society in which he lived definitely had a perception of other peoples, but if you watch the Treasures involving the war cartoons. Those were all developed by the Walt Disney company...they were used as propaganda against our foes during WW2 and those films are filled with some of the most racial remarks I've ever seen in cartoons. Now, these films were of course developed for Americans so that they could laugh at the Japanese, Germans and other Communist countries at the time.

One, though I don't remember the title, dealt with American soldiers being over in Japan and the Japanese soldiers were hiding in the grass and the one wanted to shoot the American, but the other told him to wait and to shoot him in back. That, of course is not verbatim, but I couldn't believe I had heard that from a Disney cartoon - it shocked me so much that I laughed because I was in shock from hearing it. The stereotypes in those movies were so strong and I couldn't imagine the military or government having a company develop films like that today.

These cartoons are in no way proof that Walt was prejudice (sp?), because the gov't paid for and wanted those cartoons, but it's almost shocking in this day and time that cartoons like those could and are associated with Disney.

Of course, they are a part of history, and I don't think that any one or anything should be ashamed of it's past and by releasing those, the Disney Company has shown that it is not ashamed of them and not only that, those cartoons allowed for the funding of some of the most (now) beloved cartoons of that generation.
 

rmforney

Member
I recently bought the Loony Tunes Gold collections volumes 2 and 3. At the beginning of 3 the first disk has a monologue by Woopie Goldberg. In it she talks about some of the racist (though really it’s not racist, it’s bigoted but semantics aside) characters and jokes that happen in the ‘tunes. She talks about both the time period and the culture that it came out of, but says of course that the jokes were not appropriate then or now, but to not include them would be to pretend that it never existed.

My point is that you have to keep it in context. You could watch the same opening monologue and remove the references to Warner Brothers and put Disney references in their place, and it would cove the situation and theme we’re discussing here.

If you get a chance, check it out, it’s well worth it…
:)
 

Dragonrider1227

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
rmforney said:
I recently bought the Loony Tunes Gold collections volumes 2 and 3. At the beginning of 3 the first disk has a monologue by Woopie Goldberg. In it she talks about some of the racist (though really it’s not racist, it’s bigoted but semantics aside) characters and jokes that happen in the ‘tunes. She talks about both the time period and the culture that it came out of, but says of course that the jokes were not appropriate then or now, but to not include them would be to pretend that it never existed.

My point is that you have to keep it in context. You could watch the same opening monologue and remove the references to Warner Brothers and put Disney references in their place, and it would cove the situation and theme we’re discussing here.

If you get a chance, check it out, it’s well worth it…
:)
Yeah, unfortunatly, that involves people coming to a compromice which is something no one seems to be able to do now adays. :(
 

finan03

New Member
one thing to take into account is the time in which Walt lived. It was more common than uncommon for someone to be anti-semetic or racist... thats just the way people then grew up. Either way its ignorant and unacceptable... i'm sure id have some dissapointment towards Walt himself, but not everything he created.
 

mkt

Disney's Favorite Scumbag™
Premium Member
He grew up in the midwest at the beginning of the 1900's... the Status Quo, white males, were predominantly racist.

Walt was racist, and I don't care. If he was brought up in a different situation, he probably wouldn't have been racist.
 

BRER STITCH

Well-Known Member
OK....I didn't want to do it, but I couldn't resist!!! :lookaroun

Time to turn to the puppets from Avenue Q for words of wisdom on this topic....



Everyone's a little bit racist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing hate crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really color blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgments
Based on race.

Everyone's a little bit racist
Today.
So, everyone's a little bit racist
Okay!
Ethinic jokes might be uncouth,
But you laugh because
They're based on truth.
Don't take them as
Personal attacks.
Everyone enjoys them -
So relax!

If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
Even though we all know
That it's wrong,
Maybe it would help us
Get along.

Everyone's a little bit racist
It's true.
But everyone is just about
As racist as you!
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!​

:sohappy: :lol: :sohappy: :lol: :sohappy: :lol:
 

ctwhalerman

New Member
Walt probably was a racist, but, as with all important historical figures, his private life must be separated from his creative work.

Many of our founding fathers could be considered racist and had some other dubious qualities. Thomas Jefferson had slaves and was a reknowned womanizer. It's rumored Benjamin Franklin frequented sexual orgy parties. And even George Washington himself was a slaveholder.

The fact is that any famous person will have some bad qualities. JFK's sexual romps are quite famous, and just about every Hollywood star (past and present) has some skeletons in their closet.

What we do is celebrate the accomplishments and genius of these people. We do not care if Thomas Edison neglected his first wife to the point where she died, or that Henry Ford may have been a supporter of the Nazi Party. We care about the light bulb and movies, and about cars and the assembly line, and how they have changed our lives and country. It gets to a point where these geniuses are celebrated as myths, even though they are just human and have good and bad qualities like everyone else.

No other person has become as much of a myth as Walt Disney, as he personified the American Dream, was beloved in his lifetime for his own creations, and his legend has been kept alive by his company as part of their overall history. Maybe, Walt Disney, the man, the Mid-westerner born 1901 did have racist views, but that idea will fail to gain any real traction in the minds of Americans, because Walt Disney the legend created Mickey Mouse, Snow White, Disneyland, and celebrated his country.

We as a people are, and have always been, very selective about what we remember and what we care about, and so Walt's legend will continue unabated, even if his personal views were racist.
 

Nicole

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's fair to judge people from the past by today's standards. They did the best they could. 50 years from now surely some of the things we don't even notice that we do may be socially taboo.
 

Videoteck

New Member
Walt was a Christian too you know. I guess that means I dont care that hes a racist, hes a great imaginneer and an artist I respect him.
 

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