I have a Bone to pick

[WDWLOVER1957]

I actually can say I have had that happen multiple times. Once it occurred twice in a row as we waited for 20 minutes for a bus. Right as the bus pulls up out of nowhere here comes an ECV with about 20 people. They got on, took up the entire bus and left. We all waited another 20 minutes, a bus pulls up and here comes another huge family about 20 yards away waving and yelling, the bus waits for them to get to the bus (without letting anyone else on). They got to the bus, filled it all up and then left. So we had to wait twice in a row.

I do have a big issue with that. Buses should have a numbering system like a deli. The only other option would be ECV users should only be allowed to bring immediate family as part of their group (Mom, Dad, children).

That is stupid I believe in the parks its the driver plus 5, the buses shouldnt be any differant.

 

[lighteningqueen]

I am so with you. In Dec we waited for 3 buses because of that same issue. The buses that came were the smaller ones with side sitting seats. It does not take long to fill them. up. It took over an hour and half to get us on finally. that m,any buses came. that's why i said in my post above they need a cm at every stop... To regulate those evc groups. All they have to do is roll up at the last minute and all get on, there we wait. Kids were screaming tired of waiting. This is a HUGE issue they should address NOW... OR have special bus just for EVC and there packs. I sometimes wonder if they have friends that abuse this with that family.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I am so with you. In Dec we waited for 3 buses because of that same issue. The buses that came were the smaller ones with side sitting seats. It does not take long to fill them. up. It took over an hour and half to get us on finally. that m,any buses came. that's why i said in my post above they need a cm at every stop... To regulate those evc groups. All they have to do is roll up at the last minute and all get on, there we wait. Kids were screaming tired of waiting. This is a HUGE issue they should address NOW... OR have special bus just for EVC and there packs. I sometimes wonder if they have friends that abuse this with that family.

I totally agree with you. And we stopped using Disney transportation long ago because of it. We rent a car and drive everywhere we go. The bus situation is beyond crazy.

 

[Evil Genius]

Hardly. You find it hard to believe a group of 20 people could be roaming Disney? It's ridiculoous to think that a perosn in an ECV could be at the parks with a large group? 4-5 is believable bt 15-20 can't possibly be. To happen twice in a row must really be impossible then right!?! I am actually shocked that it hasn't happened to more people. I'd say about 1 in every 6 buses we take at the parks has to wait for at least one ECV.

I won't doubt an encounter with an ECV group on every bus, but to have all the groups be in the double digits like that seems odd. I mean, I don't see that many groups PERIOD that size getting onto a bus that often, much less ones with a wheelchair or ECV in tow.

Maybe it's the time of year you go. :shrug:

 

[fosse76]

This is getting absurd....

Comparing kids returning to work or employees returing to work and those desirious of renting an ECV? Really? The reasoning behind the first two is that the school and employer has to ensure those who were sick no longer pose a health hazard to others. Aside from a scraped knee or banged shin, the same really doesn't apply here for those on an ECV.

Wrong. While schools and employers CAN require a release from the doctor for the individual to return, that is not their primary reason for requiring the note. The main purpose is to guage the legitimacy of the absence. It proves that at some point during the absence you were under a doctor's care. Yes, some jobs require a release saying that it is safe to return to work, but that isn't the sole or primary reason. To argue otherwise is absurd.

And if Disney could honestly (and legally) ask those questions, don't you think they would have? Don't you think they would have checked any individual who physically may not be capable if they should be on rides such as ToT or M:S? Instead of getting sued every few years or having people expire after riding their attractions? Same for those third-party companies renting ECVs/wheelchairs/strollers.

While Disney must accomodate guests with disabilities, They can LEGALLY require proof of disability. While most caselaw on the matter is regarding employment and the workplace, the principles, by extension, are applicable to businesses and their customers as well. Yes, everyone has the right to medical privacy. But if you insist on "special" accomodation (and I use that for lack of a better word), it is your burden to prove you need the accomodation. And courts have consistently upheld that. Disney doesn't for several reasons. It's poor business to not trust your customers. Also, despite the legality, people are litigious if they feel they are being wronged. The headache of dealing with those types of suits isn't worth it for Disney.

Disney can, theoretically, ban ecvs. The ADA doesn't require business to allow every device ever designed. It only requires a "reasonable" accomodation. TDO can control, to a degree, the usage. And while WDW is bigger that DLR, its attendance is only a few million more than DLR, so unless the entire difference in numbers is made up solely of evc users, it's not entirely relevant. It essentially proves that many of these users are simply just unwilling to walk.

 

[lighteningqueen]

If you ask me this is becoming a serious issue. If we that stay on property are having to bow out for EVC.s every bus then why stay on property. There is no conveinience to it anymore. If you have to wait that long or even stand on a bus like sardines then what is the fun of the bus transportaion. Many a time I have to stand by the driver trying to hold on becasue he wants to pack the bus to capacity and I mean over load.. This should not be allowed either. Many times the driver was driving like a bat out of hell and has to stop on a dime because he was NOT watching and believe me I was watching him, we were thrown forward of the windshield. This is becoming a bad thing. In real city streets that is not allowed to stand like that.. I think that if off site hotels offer better deals for Disney fans that you will see a great reduction of on site stayers and more driving into the park. So what if you have to pay to park you get there a lot sooner and I might say maybe safer. I think its time Disney bring in more buses and drivers who drive a little slower. We had one good driver in all the 9 days we were there last Dec that didn't throw us all over the bus.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Wrong. While schools and employers CAN require a release from the doctor for the individual to return, that is not their primary reason for requiring the note. The main purpose is to guage the legitimacy of the absence. It proves that at some point during the absence you were under a doctor's care. Yes, some jobs require a release saying that it is safe to return to work, but that isn't the sole or primary reason. To argue otherwise is absurd.



While Disney must accomodate guests with disabilities, They can LEGALLY require proof of disability. While most caselaw on the matter is regarding employment and the workplace, the principles, by extension, are applicable to businesses and their customers as well. Yes, everyone has the right to medical privacy. But if you insist on "special" accomodation (and I use that for lack of a better word), it is your burden to prove you need the accomodation. And courts have consistently upheld that. Disney doesn't for several reasons. It's poor business to not trust your customers. Also, despite the legality, people are litigious if they feel they are being wronged. The headache of dealing with those types of suits isn't worth it for Disney.

Disney can, theoretically, ban ecvs. The ADA doesn't require business to allow every device ever designed. It only requires a "reasonable" accomodation. TDO can control, to a degree, the usage. And while WDW is bigger that DLR, its attendance is only a few million more than DLR, so unless the entire difference in numbers is made up solely of evc users, it's not entirely relevant. It essentially proves that many of these users are simply just unwilling to walk.

Careful... Facts are looked upon unfavorably 'round these here parts... :lookaroun

 

[sublimesting]

I won't doubt an encounter with an ECV group on every bus, but to have all the groups be in the double digits like that seems odd. I mean, I don't see that many groups PERIOD that size getting onto a bus that often, much less ones with a wheelchair or ECV in tow.

Maybe it's the time of year you go. :shrug:

That particular time was 4th of July. We were royally p1$$3d. I have a feeling you'll see this kind of thing more and more as people get fatter and more unhealthy and use ECVs more and more. 20 years ago it was rare to even see a scooter in a store now you go out to a grocery store or Wal Mart and see at least 3 or 4.

 

[Thorpyness]

This has gone on a bit hasn't it. I think I posted about 50 pages back.

As has been rightly, said, there is nobody on these forums qualified to be judge,jury and executioner, so don't bother trying to justify using these services, it's up to you. Those that express genuine need, I take you at your word and you need not defend your use, those that are deluding themselves, off you wobble to your self inflicted heart condition.

As for there not being a way to tell the difference between people that genuinely need to use the services and those lazy fatties, there is a simple way to tell the difference, and I'll let you into my secret. Genuine users will have manners, and those lazy fat abusers will not.

 

[Evil Genius]

That particular time was 4th of July. We were royally p1$$3d. I have a feeling you'll see this kind of thing more and more as people get fatter and more unhealthy and use ECVs more and more. 20 years ago it was rare to even see a scooter in a store now you go out to a grocery store or Wal Mart and see at least 3 or 4.

Way to be positive there.

How about we all say screw it and dwell on the negatives of everybody that doesn't directly effect us???

 

[Buried20KLeague]

those that are deluding themselves, off you wobble to your self inflicted heart condition.

But WAIT... That heart condition would then allow one to rent said ECV with a clear conscience and without abusing the system.

AHHHHHH!!!!!!!!! THE PARADOX!!!!! IT BURNS!!!!!!!!

:drevil:

 

[Thorpyness]

You mean it reinforces the self delusion.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

How about we all say screw it and dwell on the negatives of everybody that doesn't directly effect us???

You mean like inferring sublimesting is lying when he recounts his personal experiences to us??

:lol:

:lookaroun

 

[Buried20KLeague]

You mean it reinforces the self delusion.

Tomato, tom-ah-to... :lol:

 

[coachz]

way to be positive there.

How about we all say screw it and dwell on the negatives of everybody that doesn't directly effect us???

affect ! ! ! ! ! ! !

 

[coachz]

If you ask me this is becoming a serious issue. If we that stay on property are having to bow out for EVC.s every bus then why stay on property. There is no conveinience to it anymore. If you have to wait that long or even stand on a bus like sardines then what is the fun of the bus transportaion. Many a time I have to stand by the driver trying to hold on becasue he wants to pack the bus to capacity and I mean over load.. This should not be allowed either. Many times the driver was driving like a bat out of hell and has to stop on a dime because he was NOT watching and believe me I was watching him, we were thrown forward of the windshield. This is becoming a bad thing. In real city streets that is not allowed to stand like that.. I think that if off site hotels offer better deals for Disney fans that you will see a great reduction of on site stayers and more driving into the park. So what if you have to pay to park you get there a lot sooner and I might say maybe safer. I think its time Disney bring in more buses and drivers who drive a little slower. We had one good driver in all the 9 days we were there last Dec that didn't throw us all over the bus.

dont' conplain here///contact the walt disney company for your replies kma

 

[xdan0920]

yes but according to your law then no one after the wheelchair/ecv, cant get on, neither can anyone else, strangly enough you never see any wc,ecv owners on these boards saying they said this at the bus stops, and before you have a go that is a stupid law but it as what it is.

My law? I don't understand.

It is common courtesy that is lacking. If you get to a bus stop, and there are 35 people ahead of you waiting already, should you be allowed to go in front of them and possibly prevent some of them from riding on the bus they were waiting for before you got there?

My grandmother uses and ECV around the parks, she is 85 with crippling arthritis. When we get to a bus stop we wait in line like human beings, If it is a long line and it looks questionable wether we will get on with our full group without cutting anyone, then we just wait for the next bus. It is stunning that anyone would do otherwise.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

My law? I don't understand.

It is common courtesy that is lacking. If you get to a bus stop, and there are 35 people ahead of you waiting already, should you be allowed to go in front of them and possibly prevent some of them from riding on the bus they were waiting for before you got there?

My grandmother uses and ECV around the parks, she is 85 with crippling arthritis. When we get to a bus stop we wait in line like human beings, If it is a long line and it looks questionable wether we will get on with our full group without cutting anyone, then we just wait for the next bus. It is stunning that anyone would do otherwise.

Wow Dan! Your family is a model that others should follow! Just because Grandma is in an ECV, it doesn't make you and your family feel that you have more of a right to catch the next bus than everyone who has been patiently waiting in line. This has been my point all along. Everyone should wait their turn without special treatment. I don't feel I should be treated more special than anyone else, so why is it that others do? If there was a system by which ECVs could get even better service while alleviating the lines for the rest of us (perhaps new buses dedicated ONLY FOR ECVs) then I'm all for it! But the rest of us get pushed aside bus after bus while ECVs roll up.

I'm not saying that it's always a single group that will fill an entire bus, but I'll see a bus pull up, two or three ECVs that just rolled up will fill 3/4 of it, then maybe 5 to 7 people in the "second-class citizens" line are allowed to stand on the bus, and away it goes. 20-30 mins later same thing. It's not uncommon for 3 or 4 ECVs to roll up every 15 mins. And me standing about 25th in line will wait 45-60 mins for a bus.

I think that the simple solution to relieve congestion is for Disney to spend a little extra money for specialized ECV buses. I want those who need ECVs to get the attention they need and deserve, but the current system breeds abuse. A large group of people will all go to WDW for a trip, and it doesn't cost much to rent an ECV for 7 days if you're splitting it 15 ways. Then you get premier access to bus transportation. It's wrong It's an issue that has gotten worse over the years. It makes things difficult for all other guests. And it's a situation that needs to get remedied.

I'm not saying get rid of ECVs. I'm saying improve the system for everyone involved. The rest of us want to get back to the hotel after a long day too.

 

[trr1]

#1

Today, 08:51
imacrunchymama

Just Joined
WDWMAGIC Guest
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 8


We are going to Disney World and
and we are bringing three kids. Is that okay? I mean we will have to use a stroller for our 4 yr old and 16 month old. A double at that. I promise not to bump into to your legs or cut you off if you promise to use the same courtesy. I think we may have to bring it with us on the Disney bus, does anyone mind? I mean I want to be sure that I do all I can to make your vacation the best it can be and I would hate to have you worry the whole time about the size of my stroller or whether or not my 4 yr old is too big for it. I may be bringing one of those leash things for my littlest because its not about control or leashing my child its about making sure everyone in my family is happy. And if sweet little princess wants to walk and does not want to be carried by arms or our Ergo carrier I might put it on her. I would prefer not to lose her because she is a runner. I know I know we should be teaching our 16 months old ''limits'' and telling her that if she runs away she wont be able to ride Splash Mountain (as one person suggested in that other thread :brickAnd when you have three kids you are outnumbered 3:2, lol. And I may just may nurse her in the park but if you promise not to stare at my baby feeding I promise that my husband will not put you in an arm bar :lol:. But I will assure you of these things so you can go about your own business, enjoying your vacay w/ your own family- You wont see my 11 yr old in a stroller ( I had no idea that made one that big!) and he wont have his DS in line because we taught him that waiting in lines is usually worth it.
Oh and one other thing we will be using the DDP! man should we even go? We are going to be on "Most Hated List" of every "real" Disney fan :brick:

I have been a long time lurker on this board and there are so many mean and judgemental people. The last stroller thread is a prime example. Why cant we all just go on vacation and mind our own business and let everyone else live their lives?

 

[Larry Mondello]

They see me rollin' ...

....They be hatin'