I have a Bone to pick

[wm49rs]

Why couldn't they require a doctor's note for ECV's or strollers over a certain age? That wouldn't violate anything. :shrug:

Abuse of the system has become rampant. That's a fact that no one can dispute, as stroller and ECV use has climbed hundreds of percent... WAY over what would be considered "normal".

Everyone gets so defensive on this topic. I don't get it. If you NEED to use an ECV or stroller, THEN THESE PEOPLE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT YOU. It's the people that abuse the system that are the issue.

A doctor's note would cut down on it quite a bit just as a deterrent, and would allow those that have a need for one of these to still use them with fairly little effort. Heck... Seems to me it would make it EASIER for those people because the walkways would be less crowded for them, making it easier to navigate said strollers and ECV's.

And even then, it would seem Disney couldn't enforce anything on third party ECV rentals and strollers brought from home... So there would still be avenues for virtually anyone that wanted to use these things... It would just mean a little more effort, which in and of itself would stop some people.

Actually, it violates doctor-patient confidentiality, for starters.

And unfortunately, according to some, practically everyone on a ECV, stroller or wheelchair is either lazy, fat (or both) or else egregiously "abusing the system."

Again, the interwebs are a great conduit for opining the absolute.....

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

I would have no problem asking each and every person bringing an ECV into one of the parks (or trying to rent one) why a motorized cart is necessary, instead of using a manually propelled wheelchair..

You ever get to a position at Disney that lets you do that feel free to ask my wife, if you dont like the reply, tough

 

[jakeman]

Well, DL doesn't have the same transportation arrangement that WDW has, does it? It's been so many years since I've been to DL, so maybe I'm wrong.

They don't have the bus system, true.

I would think it would be more due to the intimidating nature of the resort in comparison to DL.

But the preferential treatment of ECVs in the transportation system at WDW breeds some of the abuse, doesn't it?

I would argue, while significant, I'm not sure that is sole reason for the increase in usage.

Why do I, as a paying guest, have to accept and be content that some selfish people are going to abuse the system?

Because that is the case with almost every system in life?

People will always find a way to abuse the system.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

DL also doesn't have the size that WDW has, or the number of visitors. That many extra people, on EVCs, in strollers or wheelerchairs, is going to lead to a modicum of individuals "abusing the system." That still doesn't make it TDO's fault.

Fair enough, and I don't disagree, but they could help to solve the issue, couldn't they? I'm really liking my two solutions that I've suggested:

1) ECVs wait in line for bus transportation with everyone else, assuming that the lines are altered to accomodate them. This would cut down on abuse since preferential treatment isn't being given to ECVs. If people in ECVs need to get back quicker, they should leave a little earlier.

or

2) Provide ECV only bus transportation that allows a very limited number of additional people to accompany the person in the ECV. Number of people would be at the discretion of the driver. In other words, no groups of 6+ or whatever the number is. All other members of the party would have to wait with everyone else.

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

People will always find a way to abuse the system.

True, but I don't have to accept it and not comment on it just because they will always exist. There are ways to try and limit abuse, or at least find ways to limit the benefit of that abuse.

I'm not sitting here just b*tching about it. I've suggested a couple of viable solutions and that took me all of 5 mins. Can't the collective Disney brain-power come up with even better solutions? They might not be the cause of the abuse, but they can help to cut down on it and try to make things better for all guests simultaneously.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Actually, it violates doctor-patient confidentiality, for starters.

And unfortunately, according to some, practically everyone on a ECV, stroller or wheelchair is either lazy, fat (or both) or else egregiously "abusing the system."

Again, the interwebs are a great conduit for opining the absolute.....

A signature of a doc on a form (supplied by Disney and vetted by their lawyers, maybe even something electronic that you do when you book or make final payment) that doesn't stipulate WHY someone might need an ECV or stoller violates doctor-patient confidentiality? No it doesn't. Many companies require doctor's notes for illnesses and doctor appointments. 2 of my companies do, as a matter of fact. I wouldn't see how it's different. It's not there to stop those people that really have doc appointments, and truthfull I know well and good that people could find ways around it. But it's a deterrant. Which stops some abuse.

And I'm not trying to pick a fight, just so everyone knows. I just know there's abuse to the system.

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

I don't understand the defense of people that feel they are entitled to go to the head of the line? They just spent an entire day at a park, but they are unable to wait in line at the end of the day for a bus?

I don't think that medical records or anything of the kind should be required. What would make this whole situation a little more fair? When an ECV pulls up for a bus, the person in the vehicle waits in line with everyone else (seated in their vehicle of course). If they didn't get preferential treatment in getting first access to the buses, that might cut down on some of the abuse of the system.

in this paragraph you have shown both total ingnorance of the law and lack of commensense, if the person in the ecv gets in line and are 40th to get on the bus how do they, 1, get to the back door , 2 get on the bus with all these people on, its a safety issue thats why its law, nothing to do with preferential treatment.

 

[jakeman]

True, but I don't have to accept it and not comment on it just because they will always exist. There are ways to try and limit abuse, or at least find ways to limit the benefit of that abuse.

Apologies, I never meant to imply you can't post about it.

I'm not sitting here just b*tching about it. I've suggested a couple of viable solutions and that took me all of 5 mins. Can't the collective Disney brain-power come up with even better solutions? They might not be the cause of the abuse, but they can help to cut down on it and try to make things better for all guests simultaneously.

While your suggestions seem plausible, there are many factors when making a decision like that:

How much would extra buses cost?
How many?
Would this make ECV guest feel like second class guest?
Is the cost less than the benefit?
What is the monetary incentive to do this (i.e. how does this increase guest spending?)

I'm not saying your suggestions are bad, they are definitively more rational than the "CM guessing your disability" type, but devising and implementing are two different things.

I know I've stopped using the Disney bus system for various reason.

 

[wm49rs]

A signature of a doc on a form (supplied by Disney and vetted by their lawyers, maybe even something electronic that you do when you book or make final payment) that doesn't stipulate WHY someone might need an ECV or stoller violates doctor-patient confidentiality? No it doesn't. Many companies require doctor's notes for illnesses and doctor appointments. 2 of my companies do, as a matter of fact. I wouldn't see how it's different. It's not there to stop those people that really have doc appointments, and truthfull I know well and good that people could find ways around it. But it's a deterrant. Which stops some abuse.

And I'm not trying to pick a fight, just so everyone knows. I just know there's abuse to the system.

A note from a doctor in of itself is proof of a medical condition which one may not want to be revealed.

And on the flip side, even doctor's notes could be faked, so it's just another potential form of abuse.

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

I'm not sitting here just b*tching about it. I've suggested a couple of viable solutions and that took me all of 5 mins.

1st one not even close to being viable, sorry.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

A note from a doctor in of itself is proof of a medical condition which one may not want to be revealed.

And on the flip side, even doctor's notes could be faked, so it's just another potential form of abuse.

No it's not... And either way, it's not illegal.

And I agree... I already said that there would still be abuse... But it's about having a deterrent. It's that effort, and that "what if I get caught" that stops some people.

Like when they set up those "Your Speed Is" things that show your speed, with the posted speed limit right under it. 9 out of 10 people (maybe more) slow down when they see those things. It's a deterrent.

 

[wm49rs]

No it's not... And either way, it's not illegal.

And I agree... I already said that there would still be abuse... But it's about having a deterrent. It's that effort, and that "what if I get caught" that stops some people.

Like when they set up those "Your Speed Is" things that show your speed, with the posted speed limit right under it. 9 out of 10 people (maybe more) slow down when they see those things. It's a deterrent.

Which is obviously why both Disney and third-party scooter rental companies so often ask for medical notes from doctors? Because the potential to "abuse the system" is so great? Same for those in wheelchairs, right? And I'm sure parents should soon need pediatrician's notes for their children as well, just to prevent that egregious abuse that impacts so many other visitors to the Disney parks.

Opining the absolute once again....

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

in this paragraph you have shown both total ingnorance of the law and lack of commensense, if the person in the ecv gets in line and are 40th to get on the bus how do they, 1, get to the back door , 2 get on the bus with all these people on, its a safety issue thats why its law, nothing to do with preferential treatment.

Wow, there's a lot of anger in this post. Find a nicer way to get your point across and show a little common respect for others. Or are you always that salty.

You're right, I am ignorant of the law because thusfar in my life I've not had a reason to learn the specifics. Do you have any better ideas or are you on a crusade and only want to p*ss on others' suggestions?

 

[ddrongowski]

Strollers! HA!

We have been going to WDW with my son since he was 4 years old. We have never used a stroller. He would walk with us, and if he got tired, I would carry him on my shoulders.

But heck if Disney allowed rentals of segways in the parks, how many adults would not be walking? Sad times when "Thin" and "thick" people are not fit.

One thing I have learned from life is that weight does not always denote fitness levels.

Also I want to add, back in my youth, if I wanted to play video games (and I played a lot of video games). I had to ride my bicycle to the arcade that was 10 miles away. Or at the camp grounds, to get to the arcade there required a 20-30 minute walk.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Which is obviously why both Disney and third-party scooter rental companies so often ask for medical notes from doctors? Because the potential to "abuse the system" is so great? Same for those in wheelchairs, right? And I'm sure parents should soon need pediatrician's notes for their children as well, just to prevent that egregious abuse that impacts so many other visitors to the Disney parks.

Opining the absolute once again....

They don't ask because it's revenue lost if they do. I imagine that's how it started... They were content with a new stream of revenue. But I think they created a monster that at this point they can't control, either.

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me.

You keep saying something about absolutes, it seems, in reference to me. I don't understand. I certainly don't think anything is absolute on this topic. :shrug:

 

[wm49rs]

They don't ask because it's revenue lost if they do. I imagine that's how it started... They were content with a new stream of revenue. But I think they created a monster that at this point they can't control, either.

I'm not sure why you're arguing with me.

You keep saying something about absolutes, it seems, in reference to me. I don't understand. I certainly don't think anything is absolute on this topic. :shrug:

They don't ask because it's invasion of privacy to ask. To say nothing of poor customer service.

And saying it's not illegal in asking for a doctor's note, when such privacies are covered not only by basic confidentiality, but HIPAA as well, is an absolute statement, albeit an incorrect one.

 

[WDWLOVER1957]

Wow, there's a lot of anger in this post. Find a nicer way to get your point across and show a little common respect for others. Or are you always that salty.

You're right, I am ignorant of the law because thusfar in my life I've not had a reason to learn the specifics. Do you have any better ideas or are you on a crusade only want to p*ss on others' suggestions?

its your countries law not mine, not on any crusade, but when you post of something you clearly know nothing about, its not P****ng on your suggestions its just putting you straight, no anger just a liitle suprised you choose to justify your arguments with no facts or effort to find whats right or not.

you wanting guests in ecvs to wait in line putting the safety aspect aside just for you, when its the law, shows scant respect for others, so you telling me to show respect is little funny really.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

They don't ask because it's invasion of privacy to ask. To say nothing of poor customer service.

And saying it's not illegal in asking for a doctor's note, when such privacies are covered not only by basic confidentiality, but HIPAA as well, is an absolute statement, albeit an incorrect one.

It is not at all illegal to get a doctor's excuse note. Kids have to do it for schools, my employees have to do it (in some cases)... It happens all the time. I don't know WHY they go to the doctor (nor do I care)... I just know they went. Same sort of thing.

That IS an absolute statement, because it's not illegal. :shrug: I don't consider it an invasion of privacy either... I would view it as a crowd monitoring device. Wouldn't it be to Disney's advantage to have a good idea of how many of these things (approximately) will be in use any given week? It seems to me they would be able to potentially use that information in all sorts of ways that currently they might not.

I don't see why you'd be so closed minded to just discussing possibilities. I'm just trying to brainstorm and have open discussion.

I don't see how checking a few boxes and maybe filling out a line or two (not with illness information or anything) would be that hard. I just imagine Disney could come up with something easy that wouldn't break anyone's back, yet still serve the purpose.

 

[wm49rs]

It is not at all illegal to get a doctor's excuse note. Kids have to do it for schools, my employees have to do it (in some cases)... It happens all the time. I don't know WHY they go to the doctor (nor do I care)... I just know they went. Same sort of thing.

That IS an absolute statement, because it's not illegal. :shrug: I don't consider it an invasion of privacy either... I would view it as a crowd monitoring device. Wouldn't it be to Disney's advantage to have a good idea of how many of these things (approximately) will be in use any given week? It seems to me they would be able to potentially use that information in all sorts of ways that currently they might not.

I don't see why you'd be so closed minded to just discussing possibilities. I'm just trying to brainstorm and have open discussion.

I don't see how checking a few boxes and maybe filling out a line or two (not with illness information or anything) would be that hard. I just imagine Disney could come up with something easy that wouldn't break anyone's back, yet still serve the purpose.

This is getting absurd....

Comparing kids returning to work or employees returing to work and those desirious of renting an ECV? Really? The reasoning behind the first two is that the school and employer has to ensure those who were sick no longer pose a health hazard to others. Aside from a scraped knee or banged shin, the same really doesn't apply here for those on an ECV.

And if Disney could honestly (and legally) ask those questions, don't you think they would have? Don't you think they would have checked any individual who physically may not be capable if they should be on rides such as ToT or M:S? Instead of getting sued every few years or having people expire after riding their attractions? Same for those third-party companies renting ECVs/wheelchairs/strollers.

 

[xdan0920]

in this paragraph you have shown both total ingnorance of the law and lack of commensense, if the person in the ecv gets in line and are 40th to get on the bus how do they, 1, get to the back door , 2 get on the bus with all these people on, its a safety issue thats why its law, nothing to do with preferential treatment.

I was just enjoying the banter when I cam across this post. And I have the perfect solution for this situation.

Wait for the next bus.