Hyperion Wharf Begins

[flavious27]

If contracts were signed, you'd be seeing signs of construction, not just demolition. Disney would be doing everything in it's power to get that area filled as soon as possible. Every month Hyperion Wharf lays dormant is another month of losses in the hundreds of thousands. Unfortunately, I'd bet HW is still a couple of years away. For now, it'll be a pleasant area to stroll through (which is why they're tearing down the abandoned buildings and making green areas). They know that people don't want to walk through an abandoned area on their way from the Marketplace to West Side. The current demolition is nothing more than trying to make the area more appealing for people to walk through.

The rumor that Ridemakerz is temporarily moving into the (former?) Team Mickey space, so that it can then relocate into a carved up version of the old Virgin Store, also doesn't bode well for Hyperion Wharf. I'm sure Disney would be doing everything it could to woo them into HW if it were anywhere close to being ready to populate. It would also make more sense for RM to wait and make one move to HW than it does to move twice.

It sounds to me like they're going to do everything they can to get the West Side and Marketplace completely filled for now because those are the higher rent districts and they don't want to invest in the expense of infrastructure re-development for HW until the area is going to be filled with much more than just one or two tenants.

I don't think that ridemakerz is going to last at dtd, they can't keep their stores open.

 

[SeaCastle]

My theory is they would have never released the artist concepts if contracts were not signed. I think you are reading way too much into the drawings. You know, what I am always accused of. :lol:

Disney has released a plethora of concept art for projects that never got off the drawing board.

On the contrary, I'm not reading too much into them at all, rather I'm reading exactly what's on the plans. And nowhere in the area you describe is something that indicates it will not be grass and mulch over the long term.

 

[menamechris]

No, because Disney officials were rather specific verbally describing Hyperion Wharf and the way it would be presented with the lights and sound effects etc. And the amphitheater being installed sooner rather than later.

You could seriously be a professional cheerleader for WDW. And they don't need that. They need to get real. The lack of vision on this is flabbergasting. They seemed to have paid an artist to render some concept drawings by telling them to draw a cross between Boardwalk and DCA. The lack of directon on this project is mind numbing.

 

[Mouse Detective]

It sounds to me like they're going to do everything they can to get the West Side and Marketplace completely filled for now because those are the higher rent districts and they don't want to invest in the expense of infrastructure re-development for HW until the area is going to be filled with much more than just one or two tenants.

I think this is as good of an analysis of the situation out there than anything. And it's pathetic because there is no reason why some of those existing buildings could not be refurbished and reopened until YEARS from now when they actually have parties interested in opening something. How much money is being squandered?

 

[flavious27]

I think this is as good of an analysis of the situation out there than anything. And it's pathetic because there is no reason why some of those existing buildings could not be refurbished and reopened until YEARS from now when they actually have parties interested in opening something. How much money is being squandered?

Well how much money has been squandered by tdo's actions towards PI anyway? There is alot of revenue being lost by having PI being closed along with any downturn with the lack tlc in the decade before that. Also, the cost of redeveloping the area.

I think that if tdo spent a fraction of hw's cost to nip and tuck around PI, they could have ended up with a better PI.

 

[Ignohippo]

Well how much money has been squandered by tdo's actions towards PI anyway? There is alot of revenue being lost by having PI being closed along with any downturn with the lack tlc in the decade before that. Also, the cost of redeveloping the area.

I think that if tdo spent a fraction of hw's cost to nip and tuck around PI, they could have ended up with a better PI.

That's exactly right. They've had to have lost millions in the area being completely abandoned for this long of a time. Even if the clubs weren't profitable (even if they were completely hemmoraging money), it would have to have been far less of a loss than the money it's going to take to completely re-develop the area.

And why didn't they just wait to close the clubs as new tenants became available? Was there really any benefit to closing them all at once except a way to announce that Disney was getting out of the nightclub business? And why turn your back on a demographic and give it away to Universal's CityWalk?

I get that PI was like a stop sign for people traveling from one end of DTD to the other, but (as someone who never really cared for the area) this decision was completely knee-jerk. They could have kept at least 3 of the clubs operating during the transition. Even HW could use the spark that having just a couple of clubs would provide. At least that way they'd be showing prospective tenants an area with a little bit of life to it, instead of trying to get the area filled completely from scratch. And, a couple of properly themed clubs (like AC) wouldn't contribute to loitering or a criminal element (if that was the concern) and could be open in the daytime as well.

I honestly think, with the Hyperion Wharf plans, you're looking at nothing more than solicitation art for prospective tenants. I believe you'll see the concourse work and demo being done, but the light show and area branding won't happen for years. The Pleasure Island signs will come down but I would guarantee you won't see Hyperion Wharf signage go up until much of the area is leased - they aren't going to do a big Hyperion Wharf re-branding when all they have to show is an empty area. Unfortunately, in today's retail economy, getting that much space leased won't happen any time soon.

I hate to beat a dead horse but, had they kept a couple of the clubs around, they would only need a couple of new tenants to kick off a pretty decent re-branding. As it is now, if a couple of good tenants come in, the area will still be pretty empty and it will be very difficult to kick off the area in any kind of substantial way. In the end, I'm afraid a big reason why buildings like the AC will be coming down is because they know it will be a long time before the area will have tenants and they don't want it to continue to look abandoned (the other reason is so that now they have less space to have to lease in the short-term). It's a complete shame.

 

[flavious27]

That's exactly right. They've had to have lost millions in the area being completely abandoned for this long of a time. Even if the clubs weren't profitable (even if they were completely hemmoraging money), it would have to have been far less of a loss than the money it's going to take to completely re-develop the area.

And why didn't they just wait to close the clubs as new tenants became available? Was there really any benefit to closing them all at once except a way to announce that Disney was getting out of the nightclub business? And why turn your back on a demographic and give it away to Universal's CityWalk?

I get that PI was like a stop sign for people traveling from one end of DTD to the other, but (as someone who never really cared for the area) this decision was completely knee-jerk. They could have kept at least 3 of the clubs operating during the transition. Even HW could use the spark that having just a couple of clubs would provide. At least that way they'd be showing prospective tenants an area with a little bit of life to it, instead of trying to get the area filled completely from scratch. And, a couple of properly themed clubs (like AC) wouldn't contribute to loitering or a criminal element (if that was the concern) and could be open in the daytime as well.

I honestly think, with the Hyperion Wharf plans, you're looking at nothing more than solicitation art for prospective tenants. I believe you'll see the concourse work and demo being done, but the light show and area branding won't happen for years. The Pleasure Island signs will come down but I would guarantee you won't see Hyperion Wharf signage go up until much of the area is leased - they aren't going to do a big Hyperion Wharf re-branding when all they have to show is an empty area. Unfortunately, in today's retail economy, getting that much space leased won't happen any time soon.

I hate to beat a dead horse but, had they kept a couple of the clubs around, they would only need a couple of new tenants to kick off a pretty decent re-branding. As it is now, if a couple of good tenants come in, the area will still be pretty empty and it will be very difficult to kick off the area in any kind of substantial way. In the end, I'm afraid a big reason why buildings like the AC will be coming down is because they know it will be a long time before the area will have tenants and they don't want it to continue to look abandoned (the other reason is so that now they have less space to have to lease in the short-term). It's a complete shame.

All I see happening is a new set at tdo with have to figure out what to do with hyper waste 10 years after it opens.

 

[Longhairbear]

Hi all, I'm new here as of last night, but have been lurking for almost a year. I'm not anyone special, I am just a fan who does know a few people who are very vaguely connected to WDI in Burbank. They never have good intel anymore for me. So basically I repeat what I've read on other forums posted by these people I personally know, and trust.
That said, it is strongly rumored out here in CA that props from Adv. Club will be used in the bar in the pool area of the Disneyland Hotel. Many CA APer's loved the AC at PI, and are sad it's gone, but glad pieces of it may show up at DLR.

 

[jt04]

You could seriously be a professional cheerleader for WDW. And they don't need that. They need to get real. The lack of vision on this is flabbergasting. They seemed to have paid an artist to render some concept drawings by telling them to draw a cross between Boardwalk and DCA. The lack of directon on this project is mind numbing.

Your lack of real information and conclusions based on pure speculation lacking any logical foundations is what is mind numbing. Are you a refugee from the doom and gloom society?

That's exactly right. They've had to have lost millions in the area being completely abandoned for this long of a time. Even if the clubs weren't profitable (even if they were completely hemmoraging money), it would have to have been far less of a loss than the money it's going to take to completely re-develop the area.

And why didn't they just wait to close the clubs as new tenants became available? Was there really any benefit to closing them all at once except a way to announce that Disney was getting out of the nightclub business? And why turn your back on a demographic and give it away to Universal's CityWalk?

I get that PI was like a stop sign for people traveling from one end of DTD to the other, but (as someone who never really cared for the area) this decision was completely knee-jerk. They could have kept at least 3 of the clubs operating during the transition. Even HW could use the spark that having just a couple of clubs would provide. At least that way they'd be showing prospective tenants an area with a little bit of life to it, instead of trying to get the area filled completely from scratch. And, a couple of properly themed clubs (like AC) wouldn't contribute to loitering or a criminal element (if that was the concern) and could be open in the daytime as well.

I honestly think, with the Hyperion Wharf plans, you're looking at nothing more than solicitation art for prospective tenants. I believe you'll see the concourse work and demo being done, but the light show and area branding won't happen for years. The Pleasure Island signs will come down but I would guarantee you won't see Hyperion Wharf signage go up until much of the area is leased - they aren't going to do a big Hyperion Wharf re-branding when all they have to show is an empty area. Unfortunately, in today's retail economy, getting that much space leased won't happen any time soon.

I hate to beat a dead horse but, had they kept a couple of the clubs around, they would only need a couple of new tenants to kick off a pretty decent re-branding. As it is now, if a couple of good tenants come in, the area will still be pretty empty and it will be very difficult to kick off the area in any kind of substantial way. In the end, I'm afraid a big reason why buildings like the AC will be coming down is because they know it will be a long time before the area will have tenants and they don't want it to continue to look abandoned (the other reason is so that now they have less space to have to lease in the short-term). It's a complete shame.

I suspect they did not think they could transition the area as it was designed with buildings that served to create an enclosed environment that would isolate and keep the noise in. When the PI concept died the island became non-functional. So they probably decided a complete makeover was critical to DTD's future and to make it more user friendly.

All your other conclusions are purely speculation based on nothing. The only construction that was announced in the near term was the amphitheater. Longer term it was announced that the project would take a few years so you seem to be basing your conclusions on emotion rather than facts. That is never good. Again, it was announced the transition would take years. Largely for the same reason DCA's transition is taking literally years. I don't hear the folks in Anaheim complaining.

I can only think Lee saying the grassy areas won't be built on for many more years ((if ever) has fooled everyone. Remember, Lee has been very clear he is against this entire project and everything he says about anything involving the former PI has to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[menamechris]

Your lack of real information and conclusions based on pure speculation lacking any logical foundations is what is mind numbing. Are you a refugee from the doom and gloom society?

I suspect they did not think they could transition the area as it was designed with buildings that served to create an enclosed environment that would isolate and keep the noise in. When the PI concept died the island became non-functional. So they probably decided a complete makeover was critical to DTD's future and to make it more user friendly.

All your other conclusions are purely speculation based on nothing. The only construction that was announced in the near term was the amphitheater. Longer term it was announced that the project would take a few years so you seem to be basing your conclusions on emotion rather than facts. That is never good. Again, it was announced the transition would take years. Largely for the same reason DCA's transition is taking literally years. I don't hear the folks in Anaheim complaining.

I can only think Lee saying the grassy areas won't be built on for many more years ((if ever) has fooled everyone. Remember, Lee has been very clear he is against this entire project and everything he says about anything involving the former PI has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Okay - I like what you post. I really do. As some other people have said, you really do breathe a good vibe into all this with your optimism and belief in Disney. I have said it before and I will say it again - I really do hope that your vision for HW comes true.

However, I do have to defend myself and others when you state that we are posting based on "lack of information" or we are "speculating" and having no "logical foundations". We have been given and look over the exact same information released by Disney as you have. Everything beyond that for ANY of us is speculation.

The difference being - a few think that this is going to be something so great that the details are being kept top-secret, so as to blow all of us away when it opens. Unfortunately, that method of execution a project like this doesn't really attract the third parties that they desperately need to even get this off the ground. It's not coming from a place of "gloom and doom society", just a Business 101 class. :wave:

 

[jt04]

Okay - I like what you post. I really do. As some other people have said, you really do breathe a good vibe into all this with your optimism and belief in Disney. I have said it before and I will say it again - I really do hope that your vision for HW comes true.

However, I do have to defend myself and others when you state that we are posting based on "lack of information" or we are "speculating" and having no "logical foundations". We have been given and look over the exact same information released by Disney as you have. Everything beyond that for ANY of us is speculation.

The difference being - a few think that this is going to be something so great that the details are being kept top-secret, so as to blow all of us away when it opens. Unfortunately, that method of execution a project like this doesn't really attract the third parties that they desperately need to even get this off the ground. It's not coming from a place of "gloom and doom society", just a Business 101 class. :wave:

Again, everyone is assuming they have not come to any agreement with third parties. That is what I consider to be pure speculation. Now any details Disney has been keeping to themselves (and they said there are details they are not ready to announce yet) would likely be presented to potential customers and protected through NDA's.

Disney is not going through all the effort at relocating third parties, building new venues, major redesigns and refurbs (some might call pre-furbs) unless there was a plan. That is my only point. They are obviously following a plan.

 

[menamechris]

Disney is not going through all the effort at relocating third parties, building new venues, major redesigns and refurbs (some might call pre-furbs) unless there was a plan. That is my only point. They are obviously following a plan.

I hope they are. I hope I am surprised at what is unveiled. This project should not have taken years - like as long as it would take to build an entirely new theme park. The time between when PI closed and something was actually announced - to what progress is actually taking place (and lack of further information) is just very suspect. These seem more like defensive moves, rather than a "plan of attack" for a major project. BUT - these are just my observations.

 

[jt04]

I hope they are. I hope I am surprised at what is unveiled. This project should not have taken years - like as long as it would take to build an entirely new theme park. The time between when PI closed and something was actually announced - to what progress is actually taking place (and lack of further information) is just very suspect. These seem more like defensive moves, rather than a "plan of attack" for a major project. BUT - these are just my observations.

I think if you dug deep enough you would find that the length of time Disney has been taking with projects such as this, DCA and the FLE has evrything to do with budgets and little to do with the creative side or operational park management. I think it is purely about minimizing financial risk by spreading out capital costs over time. And I think some of the loudest voices complaining know this very well. But saying so just would not stir they pot or advance their agenda the same way as saying management is lost and does not have a clue. The agitators know very well what they are doing. Of course the fact they keep failing does not seem to sink in oddly. They just move on to the next opportunity to manipulate people.

 

[menamechris]

I think if you dug deep enough you would find that the length of time Disney has been taking with projects such as this, DCA and the FLE has evrything to do with budgets and little to do with the creative side or operational park management. I think it is purely about minimizing financial risk by spreading out capital costs over time. And I think some of the loudest voices complaining know this very well. But saying so just would not stir they pot or advance their agenda the same way as saying management is lost and does not have a clue. The agitators know very well what they are doing. Of course the fact they keep failing does not seem to sink in oddly. They just move on to the next opportunity to manipulate people.

I do think some people enjoy a good debate. And this is a good topic for one. (I don't really know anything about anyone having an agenda or desire to manipulate). With most of your points on HW, I can agree or see the logic to a point - and then it goes a step further and I disagree. True, budgets obviously are a consideration in any construction project or financial sinkhole they may be creating. I DISAGREE that this would have affected the HW project. If Disney had third party vendors waiting to jump on board and fill the store fronts, they would have put this project into high gear over a year ago. The whole idea is Disney acting as landlord and just collecting money and making a profit off of other businesses renting space. Much like the must debated DVC scenario - I am sure the idea is that these businesses would be paying enough that they would be covering all of the overhead, upkeep, and maintenance of DTD, - and Disney still be making a nice profit off of them. It would make no sense for them to be letting days tick away if this was the case. Their construction and budget for HW would be recoup in no time with a packed wharf, and they would be pocketing cash from the first day on an area that is just sitting there now.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I do think some people enjoy a good debate. And this is a good topic for one. (I don't really know anything about anyone having an agenda or desire to manipulate). With most of your points on HW, I can agree or see the logic to a point - and then it goes a step further and I disagree. True, budgets obviously are a consideration in any construction project or financial sinkhole they may be creating. I DISAGREE that this would have affected the HW project. If Disney had third party vendors waiting to jump on board and fill the store fronts, they would have put this project into high gear over a year ago. The whole idea is Disney acting as landlord and just collecting money and making a profit off of other businesses renting space. Much like the must debated DVC scenario - I am sure the idea is that these businesses would be paying enough that they would be covering all of the overhead, upkeep, and maintenance of DTD, - and Disney still be making a nice profit off of them. It would make no sense for them to be letting days tick away if this was the case. Their construction and budget for HW would be recoup in no time with a packed wharf, and they would be pocketing cash from the first day on an area that is just sitting there now.

Please. Stop with the logic and reason. This thread is obviously no place for it.

If anyone is looking for something better to do than beat this dead horse that is HW with jt, see below for a visual illustration:

:brick:

 

[71jason]

Again, everyone is assuming they have not come to any agreement with third parties. That is what I consider to be pure speculation. Now any details Disney has been keeping to themselves (and they said there are details they are not ready to announce yet) would likely be presented to potential customers and protected through NDA's.

I agree, that is the shared assumption--why would Disney want NDAs when they are trying to attract new tenants? A new, strong anchor for HW would be the best sales tool available right now. And the only arguable excuse for paying exorbitant HW rents is the "prestige" of being at Disney--why wouldn't new leasees want to trumpet this?

Disney is not going through all the effort at relocating third parties, building new venues, major redesigns and refurbs (some might call pre-furbs) unless there was a plan. That is my only point. They are obviously following a plan.

No new venues that I've seen--just replacing existing Disney-run venues, either by tearing them down or switching them out with a third party vendor. There is clearly a plan--to remove the "Disney" from "Downtown Disney."

 

[Did Knee]

I posted a poll under General discussion to find out what the general opinion is on the HW plans for PI. (What is the consensus on PI and HW?) http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=721976 Can I get you guys to vote on that? I really would like to get a good idea of where the WDW Magic community really stands on this, Thanks! :wave:

 

[lebeau]

I posted a poll under General discussion to find out what the general opinion is on the HW plans for PI. (What is the consensus on PI and HW?) http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=721976 Can I get you guys to vote on that? I really would like to get a good idea of where the WDW Magic community really stands on this, Thanks! :wave:

I think it breaks out like this:

jt - loves mulch, seed and anything else as long as it's not a night club

Lee - would like to burn down anything that doesn't include the Adventurer's Club

everyone else - skeptical but taking a "wait and see" approach

 

[Did Knee]

I think it breaks out like this:

jt - loves mulch, seed and anything else as long as it's not a night club

Lee - would like to burn down anything that doesn't include the Adventurer's Club

everyone else - skeptical but taking a "wait and see" approach

umm...LeBeau....you did get your flame retardant suit back from the dry cleaners before you posted that didn't you?? :lookaroun:lol:

 

[lebeau]

umm...LeBeau....you did get your flame retardant suit back from the dry cleaners before you posted that didn't you?? :lookaroun:lol:

I must have. I've been downright disagreeable today!