Hotelier Ian Schrager working on Disney Hotels.

[ford91exploder]

Some swanky hotel in New York is not a competitor to Disney.

But one in Orlando IS competition for Disney, The Hotels at UNI are run at a higher standard than the deluxes and have a lower rack rate than most of the moderates, The Hilton at the convention center same thing a executive level SUITE during the holidays is priced less than a standard room with parking lot view at GF/Poly and it comes with the services one would expect.

 

[ford91exploder]

i have to say, as a flight attendant for an international airline, i stay in hotels at least once a week. i also stay at Dis ey reguarly. when i want just a room for one night i will stay at an a star (its a bed - thats all i need). if i am on vacation i'll stay at a moderate resort - usuakly POFQ or CBR so i can upgrade to a king bed (im 6"3', i need to spread out). on occasions i have stayed at deluxe resorts and DVC resorts.

my general observation is Dianey hotel rooms are very generic - most are the same size, they all have the same tv, they all have the same towels, they all have the same sheets. compare this to a Mariott and a JW Mariott or a Sheraton and a Westin. Thats esentially what we are looking at here. a JW bed and a Westin bed have superior linens.

i stayed at AKL in March. same shower as an All Star... shouldnt there be a heavenly shower or a deeper tub?

On the subject of dining, Disney has dumbed this down so much that i wont talk to much (it deserves a whole other thread), but I'd expect the deluxe resorts to have a coffee shop seperate to QSR locations - like most hotels have a starbucks concession these days.

plateware - i am all for themed plateware. anyone that says it doesnt matter, it does. Do a Disney cruise - each restaurant has its own design plates - when you are paying high end prices, plateware is important. it adds to the experience. dining should be an experience ... not sonething you rush whilst your three year old plays on an ipad and you constantly check your phone just to see if a fastpass comes up for the mine train tomorrow.

basics like water in your room - missing from Disneys budget hotels... yet for the same price you can stay in a hugher star property in Lake Buena Vista and have water every day.

Disney has not only dumbed down its hotels but it does not provide a great service when compared to competitors in the real world.

Thank you - I'm glad someone other than myself understands the difference between a Disney hotel and a 'Real' hotel.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Thank you - I'm glad someone other than myself understands the difference between a Disney hotel and a 'Real' hotel.

NOBODY is arguing that Disney is the same as a regular hotel. Nobody. The point is that it isn't SUPPOSED to be.

 

[alphac2005]

Loooots of class envy on this board lately. It's very nourishing for my "ignore" list. Let me guess. Anyone with more money than you is too rich. But anyone with less money than you is responsible for the "Walmartification of WDW."

While you're busy hating successful people, I'll continue trying to be one.

I think that sometimes how people express their feelings of the situation poorly translate into text. I was very fortunate to grow up in a successful household and then I left home, I worked very hard, and found success as did my wife.

I think some of the vitriol here is about even successful people are finding from ticket media to hotel rooms at WDW to be too pricey even if you make a decent income. It doesn't take much to see that the business model is laser focused now on the top percentiles and for those who aren't in those demographics, it's becoming incredibly expensive to even visit with their "lower" priced offerings.

I agree with you that it seems like there is this loop of hating those above and then dumping on the ones below. Any of our psychologists on the board want to jump in?

 

[Bocabear]

NOBODY is arguing that Disney is the same as a regular hotel. Nobody. The point is that it isn't SUPPOSED to be.

No you are quite right...a Disney Hotel is not supposed to be compared to a real world hotel...at the prices they charge it should be BETTER than a real world hotel... My room at the boardwalk was almost $400.00 a night... and at the time I stayed there (many years back) the bedding and linens were the same as staying in the Port Orleans hotel... crap quality bedding and linens... There should be an inherent quality difference when staying in a deluxe resort... In that way Disney does need some help...they need the quality of their brand to match it's price point...
Disney Brand became what it is by exceeding expectations... not it seems that over charging and under delivering has become the norm...

 

[PREMiERdrum]

I feel like a trip to Walt Disney World, the Vacation Kingdom of the World, used to mean top-notch service and experience for every guest, regardless of how much they paid for their room per night. Sure, the deluxe resorts used to have some truly upper crust options that catered to the highball set, but a reasonably priced room back in the day (CBR and Dixie Landings?) used to feel a class higher than it really was. Now, the hotel options range from Motel 6 rooms at Ramada prices to Sheraton rooms at Ritz prices.

 

[Nmoody1]

I'm sorry but this is, frankly, ridiculous. Most hotels, even the nice ones, have maybe one restaurant and a bar. That's it. Compare that to three fine dining locations at the Grand, a fine dining location on the roof at the Contemporary, an African buffet and African fine dining at DAK Lodge, and on and on. PLUS a casual dining location and a quick service location at each of those resorts. If I'm staying at a place with Jiko AND Boma AND Sanaa, AND The Mara, I'm supposed to be upset about a dumbed down dining experience because there's no stand alone Starbucks? Tell me, at what Marriott can I get African stew at a counter service location? Oh, none of them? Got it. Which one serves a family style "canyon skillet" with in-character wait staff who bust your chops during the meal? Oh that's only at Wilderness Lodge? Got it. What a ridiculous suggestion to complain about the dumbing down of dining at Disney resorts while in the same breath wishing for greater access to Starbucks. Starbucks IS the dumbing down of our dining experiences, not just at Disney but all over the world.


Some swanky hotel in New York is not a competitor to Disney.

Captain America? with a rant like that I'd say more like Incredible Hulk. calm down dear, you'll give youself a heart attack. Better still, lie down on a Grand Floridian bed... close your eyes .. feel the sheets... oh no, you are at All Star Movies. same sheets. same bed.

Argue all you want that Disney hasnt dumbed down dining across the resort. you obviously didnt dine around the world much before the dining plan came to play.

i am not arguing at the ammount of locations to dine. i will say that if i was staying at the Contenporary but only decided to book a week in advance, what would the chance of me being able to get a reseravtion at Cali Grill or chef mickeys be? $400+ a night and i have to make do with QSR or maybe Be Our Guest... oh no.... no reservations there either.

as for the swanky hotel in New York... even i'll admit that most rooms at Disney are bigger than most in Manhattan... but i bet i can get a room cheaper at the W Tines sq, the Mariott Marquee in Time Square for a lot cheaper than the Grand Floridian. When i listed competition i actually meant some closer to home... Universa, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton. Actual hotels, in orlando (one actually on Disney property - kinda) that blow Mickeys rooms out of the water. The Four Seasosn even have a fireworks view... and a lazy river, and highlybthened rooms, and a coffee shop/ice cream parlour in the lobby, and a rooftop restaurant with cocktail terrace (where you can see illuminations and wishes - and i impolpre everyone to go there!)

As for three fine dining restaurants at the grand flo... if my last experience at Narcosees was anytging to go by, I'll take a food court any day!

 

[jakeman]

i am not arguing at the ammount of locations to dine. i will say that if i was staying at the Contenporary but only decided to book a week in advance, what would the chance of me being able to get a reseravtion at Cali Grill or chef mickeys be? $400+ a night and i have to make do with QSR or maybe Be Our Guest... oh no.... no reservations there either.

Reservations are available next Friday at both California Grill and Chef Mickey's if you are flexible with your dining time. The Wave looks to be wide open. If that doesn't work there are 8 other restaurants with availability just a resort monorail stop or walk to MK away.

 

[Nmoody1]

Reservations are available next Friday at both California Grill and Chef Mickey's if you are flexible with your dining time. The Wave looks to be wide open. If that doesn't work there are 8 other restaurants with availability just a resort monorail stop or walk to MK away.

i've just tried family of 4 fri, sat, sun and no reservations. maybe you are searching for a party of 2... because chef mickeys is great for a party of two!

 

[jakeman]

i've just tried family of 4 fri, sat, sun and no reservations. maybe you are searching for a party of 2... because chef mickeys is great for a party of two!

That's possible. I usually am only traveling with my wife, so our default it two.

However, Chef Mickey's and California Grill are two of the most popular restaurants on property. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for them to be full one week out. Or is the premise of your position that because you are paying to stay at the hotel you should have unfettered access to their restaurants?

 

[Horizons '83]

Wow this thread instantly became negative after the second post! This to me is exciting to hear. The hotels portfolio at WDW needs a refresh.

 

[majortom1981]

i have to say, as a flight attendant for an international airline, i stay in hotels at least once a week. i also stay at Dis ey reguarly. when i want just a room for one night i will stay at an a star (its a bed - thats all i need). if i am on vacation i'll stay at a moderate resort - usuakly POFQ or CBR so i can upgrade to a king bed (im 6"3', i need to spread out). on occasions i have stayed at deluxe resorts and DVC resorts.

my general observation is Dianey hotel rooms are very generic - most are the same size, they all have the same tv, they all have the same towels, they all have the same sheets. compare this to a Mariott and a JW Mariott or a Sheraton and a Westin. Thats esentially what we are looking at here. a JW bed and a Westin bed have superior linens.

i stayed at AKL in March. same shower as an All Star... shouldnt there be a heavenly shower or a deeper tub?

On the subject of dining, Disney has dumbed this down so much that i wont talk to much (it deserves a whole other thread), but I'd expect the deluxe resorts to have a coffee shop seperate to QSR locations - like most hotels have a starbucks concession these days.

plateware - i am all for themed plateware. anyone that says it doesnt matter, it does. Do a Disney cruise - each restaurant has its own design plates - when you are paying high end prices, plateware is important. it adds to the experience. dining should be an experience ... not sonething you rush whilst your three year old plays on an ipad and you constantly check your phone just to see if a fastpass comes up for the mine train tomorrow.

basics like water in your room - missing from Disneys budget hotels... yet for the same price you can stay in a hugher star property in Lake Buena Vista and have water every day.

Disney has not only dumbed down its hotels but it does not provide a great service when compared to competitors in the real world.

Its not Seperate but the mara at Animal Kingdom lodge has a coffee/expresso bar and dessert station inside. AKL is my home resort and my wife and I love going to the mara at like 10pm and getting a cappuccino and chocolate croissant and watching the animals.

 

[Nmoody1]

That's possible. I usually am only traveling with my wife, so our default it two.

However, Chef Mickey's and California Grill are two of the most popular restaurants on property. I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation for them to be full one week out. Or is the premise of your position that because you are paying to stay at the hotel you should have unfettered access to their restaurants?

they are popular, rightly so. California Grill is up there as pne of the best on property in my eyes... although both ravello and capa at FS blow it out of the water.

I think as a guest of a hotel, when i am paying $400+ for my room and dont get so much as a bottle of water, maybe i should have some priority over Value resort guests coming to the hotel i am paying so much for.

it all comes back to the fact that impulse choices cant be made on a Disney vacation. i dont want to sound like i am negative. remember, i still choose to stay on property... my argument is the details, the service, the uniqueness and the quality has dropped and dropped over the years, whilst other hotel brands have increased. Disney used to be an industry leader, now all of those companies have been to the Disney Univeristy, learned the tricks and built upon them, whilst disney has done the same or made cutbacks. The guest experence suffers.

i'll say it again. take a Disney cruise, visit vero beach... the last two dis ey outposts in florida that still offer 'not one disney' services. Dine in remy... thats fine dining. dine in Palo... thats great dining. visitbthe main dining room... thats how service and food should be in the wave, at grand flo cafe, at kona cafe (i love all three still!)

i think people have become very blinkered, i dont argue that Disney isnt a business.. but it was a business in the 90s also. it was a bisiness in the 70s (we wont mention the 80s!) but the hospitality indistry has moved on. people stay in hotels a lot more now. the world is a smaller place. quality has been redefined.

 

[ford91exploder]

I feel like a trip to Walt Disney World, the Vacation Kingdom of the World, used to mean top-notch service and experience for every guest, regardless of how much they paid for their room per night. Sure, the deluxe resorts used to have some truly upper crust options that catered to the highball set, but a reasonably priced room back in the day (CBR and Dixie Landings?) used to feel a class higher than it really was. Now, the hotel options range from Motel 6 rooms at Ramada prices to Sheraton rooms at Ritz prices.

Exactly my point.

 

[ford91exploder]

They aren't the same sized rooms. Look at this chart that's a few yrs old. As a DVC member, most of our rooms are even a little bigger- some a hair smaller in some cases. Like AKL for example is maybe 40 ft or so larger via DVC

If you stayed in AKL March- then yes, it will be about the same living space as the values- although bathroom is substantially larger- over twice as large. Also- you got shampoo, conditioner, lotion- values (I've never stayed in a moderate) only give you shampoo. And the towels are massively different between the two.

I've stayed in a value once. Never again if I can help it- there's a massive difference (particularly in room size when you're with a family of 4)


ETA- I need to stay at the four seasons on property as you suggested- I've heard great things!

If you stay at the Four Seasons you will never be happy with Disney properties again, it's kind of the 'red pill' of hotels ...

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Big fan of the JWMarriott at the Grande Lakes Resort. True luxury accommodations at a reasonable rate, complimentary shuttles to all the parks, a lazy river, on site golf, and shared spa with the Ritz. 8 restaurants, 3 lounges, and 24 hour room service.

Ritz-Carlton on the left. JWMarriott on the right.

 

[Otterhead]

As for three fine dining restaurants at the grand flo... if my last experience at Narcosees was anytging to go by, I'll take a food court any day!

Try Citricos or, for goodness sake, Victoria and Alberts, and tell me that a food court is better. Please.

 

[ford91exploder]

they are popular, rightly so. California Grill is up there as pne of the best on property in my eyes... although both ravello and capa at FS blow it out of the water.

I think as a guest of a hotel, when i am paying $400+ for my room and dont get so much as a bottle of water, maybe i should have some priority over Value resort guests coming to the hotel i am paying so much for.

it all comes back to the fact that impulse choices cant be made on a Disney vacation. i dont want to sound like i am negative. remember, i still choose to stay on property... my argument is the details, the service, the uniqueness and the quality has dropped and dropped over the years, whilst other hotel brands have increased. Disney used to be an industry leader, now all of those companies have been to the Disney Univeristy, learned the tricks and built upon them, whilst disney has done the same or made cutbacks. The guest experence suffers.

i'll say it again. take a Disney cruise, visit vero beach... the last two dis ey outposts in florida that still offer 'not one disney' services. Dine in remy... thats fine dining. dine in Palo... thats great dining. visitbthe main dining room... thats how service and food should be in the wave, at grand flo cafe, at kona cafe (i love all three still!)

i think people have become very blinkered, i dont argue that Disney isnt a business.. but it was a business in the 90s also. it was a bisiness in the 70s (we wont mention the 80s!) but the hospitality indistry has moved on. people stay in hotels a lot more now. the world is a smaller place. quality has been redefined.

I don't think it's negative to point out how service and quality have declined over the years, Many of the defenders of WDW's current state have only started visiting in the past 10 years,

They have no reference point to when WDW's hotels were both AMAZING and reasonably priced as they were in 80's through the early 00's, They cannot remember a time when two college couples on their first government job out of school could rent a Treehouse and afford to do all the shows at WDW on a 10 day holiday.

WDW is coasting on 30+ years of above average service and performance, but how long can that inertia last?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Big fan of the JWMarriott at the Grande Lakes Resort. True luxury accommodations at a reasonable rate, complimentary shuttles to all the parks, a lazy river, on site golf, and shared spa with the Ritz. 8 restaurants, 3 lounges, and 24 hour room service.

Ritz-Carlton on the left. JWMarriott on the right.

It's also ugly and boring as hell. Mm sun-stained peach stucco. Just what I'm looking for from an immersive experience.

ETA: I'm sure it's very nice and "luxury" and all that. But a hotel-themed hotel isn't what I'm looking for when I'm at Walt Disney World.

 

[jakeman]

it all comes back to the fact that impulse choices cant be made on a Disney vacation.

If that's your perception then that's fine, but it's not really true. Again there were 8 restuarants with availability within a 10 minute monorail ride. It's been demonstrated numerous times that FP+ are usually available day of for most of the major attractions.

If by impulse choice you mean "what I want to do when I want to do it without any planning" that's true, but I don't think that's ever been the case.

With that said, I do agree that a nice perk to staying in a hotel would be priority access to reservations to the restaurants onsite.

Big fan of the JWMarriott at the Grande Lakes Resort. True luxury accommodations at a reasonable rate, complimentary shuttles to all the parks, a lazy river, on site golf, and shared spa with the Ritz. 8 restaurants, 3 lounges, and 24 hour room service.

Ritz-Carlton on the left. JWMarriott on the right.

Yes, and with your view you can survey the dilapidated neighborhoods of John Young Parkway. You can pass the time on your balcony counting the number of house that still have tarps covering them from Hurricane Charley.