HKDL gets new castle, frozen land and marvel land.

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member

It really seemed like subbing out a generic off the shelf flat ride for a custom themed coaster stretched the budget hard and they had to cut somewhere

I still think it’s an achievement and it certainly gives the land alot more kinetic energy than the alternative

It also puts to rest the idea that they should have shoved the whole land and eaten the TSL plot so they had more space to make a full 7DMT, it looks like WOSS broke the budget by itself
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
Here a question I have been pondering for a bit

How do you think peoples opinions on the COMD have changed since it’s completion

I know this forum wasn’t a big fan of it as it was going up, has your opinion on it changed if you have seen it in person since? Do you think it was a good change the park needed or was it pointless and overhyped?

I’d be interested to see how people view it now
 

WoundedDreamer

Well-Known Member
Here a question I have been pondering for a bit

How do you think peoples opinions on the COMD have changed since it’s completion

I know this forum wasn’t a big fan of it as it was going up, has your opinion on it changed if you have seen it in person since? Do you think it was a good change the park needed or was it pointless and overhyped?

I’d be interested to see how people view it now?
I still remain disheartened by it. Even if a new castle was warranted, it could have been so much better. The castle was inspired by a Disney Junior show and "unbounded by existing architectural conventions." Disney castles tended to be grounded in real places and buildings. One of the tragedies of Disney Imagineering has been its embrace of its own stereotype. A sizable group of people always felt like Disney Parks were lowbrow, infantile, and cartoonish. This unfair characterization remained with Disney regardless of what it created.

A version of this conflict occurred with the Disney's America debacle. People did not want "low brow" Disney anywhere near history. Why? Because Disney is pathetic and childish. History is for adults, not for Disney. Disney cannot be expected to accurately represent anything or communicate anything of value or importance. Disney is something that you turn on for your kids to shut them up or visit when your kid is little. Adults who like Disney are immature.

Was this true? No, not at all. Disney Parks fans knew that Disney was so much more than a cartoon. Disney was a joyful celebration of life, of friendship, and of family. It often cut against the grain, but it changed the world while doing it. Sophisticated architects in the 1960s and 1970s hated Disneyland and Walt Disney World, but they conceded that they were creating meaningful spaces that people loved. Disney joyfully created exceptional architecture and stories in suburban Anaheim and the swamps of Florida.

And then, for whatever reason, Disney Imagineering lost its soul. It seems more and more like the cuts to Imagineering that occurred in the early 2000s left Imagineering unmoored from its history and purpose. Mediocrities like Bruce Vaughn replaced legends like Tony Baxter and Eddie Sotto. The generation of Imagineers going up the ranks today have no sense of what Disney was. To them, Disney Parks exist to bring Disney cartoons to life. Imagineers are responsible for learning as many obscure Marvel references as possible to throw in the queue for fan service.

The new castle is a reflection of Disney's cartoonification. It is childish and unrealistic. Disney has become its own stereotype. Cinderella's Castle and Sleeping Beauty's Castle have been replaced by plastic mcmansions. It's sad.

Of course, I'm in the minority with my critiques and I get that. I'm just someone far too curmudgeonly, cynical, and defeated for my 25 years of age. 🤣
 

WoundedDreamer

Well-Known Member
It really seemed like subbing out a generic off the shelf flat ride for a custom themed coaster stretched the budget hard and they had to cut somewhere

I still think it’s an achievement and it certainly gives the land alot more kinetic energy than the alternative

It also puts to rest the idea that they should have shoved the whole land and eaten the TSL plot so they had more space to make a full 7DMT, it looks like WOSS broke the budget by itself
I agree with this. The land looks great. The coaster is not aimed at serious thrill seekers. It's a family coaster. Obviously, more is always better. But I also know that it's better than what was originally announced. I'll take that beautiful coaster any day over the spinner.

- WOSS is reall short, but the coaster itself looks to pack more sensations that I was expecting. The scenery around it is out of this world, it is so well integrated. I think the biggest mistake here is the way this ride was marketed. It was presented as a headliner, a world first, a major beautifully-themed coaster addition; whereas it should always have been marketed as the second small supporting ride, where children (and their parents) will enjoy a coaster experience much calmer than on other coasters of the park. The thing now is, because of the way it was marketed, and because of the views from outside, guests will come in with expectations and will leave underwhelmed...
This is a fair critique. Marketing departments are often under pressure to use superlatives. But what you're saying has to match what you're selling.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
I still remain disheartened by it. Even if a new castle was warranted, it could have been so much better. The castle was inspired by a Disney Junior show and "unbounded by existing architectural conventions." Disney castles tended to be grounded in real places and buildings. One of the tragedies of Disney Imagineering has been its embrace of its own stereotype. A sizable group of people always felt like Disney Parks were lowbrow, infantile, and cartoonish. This unfair characterization remained with Disney regardless of what it created.

A version of this conflict occurred with the Disney's America debacle. People did not want "low brow" Disney anywhere near history. Why? Because Disney is pathetic and childish. History is for adults, not for Disney. Disney cannot be expected to accurately represent anything or communicate anything of value or importance. Disney is something that you turn on for your kids to shut them up or visit when your kid is little. Adults who like Disney are immature.

Was this true? No, not at all. Disney Parks fans knew that Disney was so much more than a cartoon. Disney was a joyful celebration of life, of friendship, and of family. It often cut against the grain, but it changed the world while doing it. Sophisticated architects in the 1960s and 1970s hated Disneyland and Walt Disney World, but they conceded that they were creating meaningful spaces that people loved. Disney joyfully created exceptional architecture and stories in suburban Anaheim and the swamps of Florida.

And then, for whatever reason, Disney Imagineering lost its soul. It seems more and more like the cuts to Imagineering that occurred in the early 2000s left Imagineering unmoored from its history and purpose. Mediocrities like Bruce Vaughn replaced legends like Tony Baxter and Eddie Sotto. The generation of Imagineers going up the ranks today have no sense of what Disney was. To them, Disney Parks exist to bring Disney cartoons to life. Imagineers are responsible for learning as many obscure Marvel references as possible to throw in the queue for fan service.

The new castle is a reflection of Disney's cartoonification. It is childish and unrealistic. Disney has become its own stereotype. Cinderella's Castle and Sleeping Beauty's Castle have been replaced by plastic mcmansions. It's sad.

Of course, I'm in the minority with my critiques and I get that. I'm just someone far too curmudgeonly, cynical, and defeated for my 25 years of age. 🤣
Interesting, I guess my question becomes then do you not think it matches wider HKDL, due to the budget the park has always been small and “plasticy”, not to the extent of say Mickey avenue but you can really feel the difference in most of the legacy lands compared to the original 4 magic kingdoms

It would be too much to rebuild the park from scratch so could you almost argue that it kinda really fits the park even if it’s a bit messy in isolation
 

Haymarket

Well-Known Member
The COMD is something else: it's very much of our current era; apparently it's "a celebration of diversity, inclusion, and dreams." (0:50) 🙄



1000005767.jpg


What could have been:

1000004065.jpg
 
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marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
If you have any tips let us know, heading there in December for the first time. What resort are you guys staying at?
We stayed at the Disneyland hotel. All 3 resorts seemed impressive for their price levels. Onsite hotels also get their own security and entry lanes.

Wait times fluctuate more than I’ve seen. Grizzly could be 30 minutes then an hour later a walk on mid afternoon then back to 20 minutes. But overall waits were more than manageable.

Let’s get wicked and wonderous book are great shows and very popular. Arrive accordingly! App wait times and info is very precise.

Momentous is well worth it. We could get a spot in the hub 20 minutes before showtime but of course it could be busier when you go. Recommend you look at the explorers semi buffet with front row fireworks viewing. Exceptional food and drinks and worth the (reasonable) cost IMHO.

Ask away and I’ll do my best. I’ve started a trip report thread; maybe ask me there to avoid clogging this one up 👋
 
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marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
The COMD is something else: it's very much of our current era; apparently it's "a celebration of diversity, inclusion, and dreams." (0:50) 🙄



What could have been:

View attachment 750444

Got to say we approached it with trepidation since in photos it looks too tall and thin. But in person it’s proportions are spot on and a very close second favourite behind Paris.
IMG_8659.jpeg


I will say though we didn’t get into the “how many princesses can you see” debate and the lower rear side flanks would benefit from some windows or such.
 
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marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Interesting, I guess my question becomes then do you not think it matches wider HKDL, due to the budget the park has always been small and “plasticy”, not to the extent of say Mickey avenue but you can really feel the difference in most of the legacy lands compared to the original 4 magic kingdoms

It would be too much to rebuild the park from scratch so could you almost argue that it kinda really fits the park even if it’s a bit messy in isolation
Interesting post. See my comment above about the castle but I see what you mean about comparing it to the legacy park.

Main Street is both quaint and cheap. Small boxes with facades that lack the detail of say Paris (or even Orlando) yet it seems to work and evoke a certain charm. I dare say the castle helps with this. Side note - not just the castle but the moat, stage, plaza and infrastructure are all great. I can only imagine how it was beforehand.

Elsewhere the legacy budget can be seen, especially fantasyland. Large open areas, cheaper facades, lack of dark rides. Tomorrowland would feel the same minus the trees. Comet Cafe with its canopies is both cheap but fitting.

Then you have mystic point. It’s the ratatouille area of HK. Lavish. Well designed. Grizzly Peak at first seems cheap with some of the buildings but they do work. And the more you look the more you realise it’s a whole mini land built over a rollercoaster. I dare say frozen land will have the same feel as mystic point. Maybe more so.

The park is a curious mix of 2005 and present day budgets and designs. I dare say opening day it was quite wanting and a bit more cosmetic work would do wonders for Fantasyland. But I think the new castle works very well in elevating the whole park to a higher level. It adds a bit more class that carries around the whole park.

On the whole you can’t compare the park to the others. One hand it’s certainly obviously the more budget challenged since opening. But on the other has plenty of amazing spaces and designs and as a whole is in a league of its own and throughly charming. Like I’ve said elsewhere we’d be back next week if we could.
 

Hkayer

Member
There should also be a "Reimagining Project" in the initial plan (if not being cut) opening between Frozen and Marvel E-ticket, which I think is a retheme of Space Mountain to maybe GOTG.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
There should also be a "Reimagining Project" in the initial plan (if not being cut) opening between Frozen and Marvel E-ticket, which I think is a retheme of Space Mountain to maybe GOTG.
Wasn’t it strongly implied that ended up being WODS being changed to WOSS
 

Hkayer

Member
Do you mean did they originally plan to not reimagine the two Tomorrowland attractions because if so no they always intended to reimagine them
I mean the change from WODS to WOSS is an early change for the plan. If the retheme budget (which I suspect is for Space Mountain) all went into the coaster, then this means they decided not to change Tomorrowland all into Stark Expo since 2019.
 

Supersnow84

Well-Known Member
I mean the change from WODS to WOSS is an early change for the plan. If the retheme budget (which I suspect is for Space Mountain) all went into the coaster, then this means they decided not to change Tomorrowland all into Stark Expo since 2019.
They still have 5 billion HKD unused but that was earmarked for the avengers E ticket as of the last time we got actual official info on the subject

We still don’t know what they are going to do with that 5 billion @marni1971 implied in their other post that the cast members knew of an expansion coming but I don’t think they can divulge any details

It could be a retheme, it could be the avengers ride, it could be anything at this point
 

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