TalkingHead
Well-Known Member
Does anyone actually believe there was undercover security on this bus? And that the undercover security allowed this thing to escalate the way it did?
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Guest attacks Disney bus driver
- Thread starter s8film40
- Start date
Fizbain32
Member
amy2313
Member
Now i have read pretty much this whole thread and was disgusted by this guys actions toward a Disney bus driver and was thrilled to read that security and the sheriff's were called and and further charges against this "guest" were pending. However, in like of the latest update from the Orlando Sentinel, do you think the bus CM poster had the his/her story correct. There was no mention of the bus driver being put on paid leave, which makes me wonder if this guy really did get kicked out??
MickeyPeace
Well-Known Member
My experience
I want to add one more thing that occured on my last visit to WDW in Sept 2010. While waiting at the Magic Kingdom to catch a bus to Pop Century, the line and wait was so long it stretched well past other waiting areas. It took so long for the bus to come that when it finally did a woman passed out and an ambulance had to be called. Only then did we see three buses pull up to the cheers of everyone waiting.
So to those who keep saying the bus system is so great. It is not. I witnessed incidents several times last trip.
To those who think they are doing their best. They are not. They could be doing better. They proved it when they sent three buses. This could have done that in the first place but an emergency had to happen first.
SO, I'm talking from experience here.
Yes the guy who assaulted the bus driver was a total jackass and should be banned from the parks forever.
But maybe Disney will read some of this and fix the damn bus system to make it run smoother and be a more pleasant experience.
And again, the bus service exists as part of a business plan. There are numerous resorts, 4 parks, 2 water parks, Downtown Disney and Boardwalk. Competing parks like SeaWorld and Universal don't compare in size and dont need buses. How many guests would go to all of the Disney parks and spend their money if the buses didn't exist. Most would probably stay at one park and one resort a day. How many guests would rent taxis or cars the entire stay? How many could afford to on an already expensive vacation? Then theres the problem of congestion on the roads and parking. Disney would lose money without the buses. So when people bring up the issue of how this is a kind free service and everyone should just shut up, actually it's not. It's part of a business plan. It should be improved. Period. Next topic.
I want to add one more thing that occured on my last visit to WDW in Sept 2010. While waiting at the Magic Kingdom to catch a bus to Pop Century, the line and wait was so long it stretched well past other waiting areas. It took so long for the bus to come that when it finally did a woman passed out and an ambulance had to be called. Only then did we see three buses pull up to the cheers of everyone waiting.
So to those who keep saying the bus system is so great. It is not. I witnessed incidents several times last trip.
To those who think they are doing their best. They are not. They could be doing better. They proved it when they sent three buses. This could have done that in the first place but an emergency had to happen first.
SO, I'm talking from experience here.
Yes the guy who assaulted the bus driver was a total jackass and should be banned from the parks forever.
But maybe Disney will read some of this and fix the damn bus system to make it run smoother and be a more pleasant experience.
And again, the bus service exists as part of a business plan. There are numerous resorts, 4 parks, 2 water parks, Downtown Disney and Boardwalk. Competing parks like SeaWorld and Universal don't compare in size and dont need buses. How many guests would go to all of the Disney parks and spend their money if the buses didn't exist. Most would probably stay at one park and one resort a day. How many guests would rent taxis or cars the entire stay? How many could afford to on an already expensive vacation? Then theres the problem of congestion on the roads and parking. Disney would lose money without the buses. So when people bring up the issue of how this is a kind free service and everyone should just shut up, actually it's not. It's part of a business plan. It should be improved. Period. Next topic.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
Good point.
goofntink has been a long time member and has always posted credible, inside information. I see no reason to start doubting him now. In all probability he is privied to far more information than a Sentinel reporter calling in for a sound byte.
v_misses_epcot
Member
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe those under cover dudes with the earpieces need to stay undercover at all times. Doesn't really help that they wear earpieces but most people are too busy to notice. My bf and I notice them since we work there and are constantly seeing them when we go make our time for work.
Anyhow, yeah, I think they're supposed to stay incognito and if something happens, to go tell a security guard or use their little ear pieces to contact authority.
officeboy
Active Member
Far be it for me to contradict Goofntink, but he did mention OCSO was involved. This is in contradiction to a published report here:
http://www.wesh.com/themeparks/25398069/detail.html
"Orange County Sheriff's Office deputies said they presume both the driver and the Disney guest decided not to press charges since they never received a call about the incident."
Now I worked for a top 50 news grinder for a few years and I know they rarely get through a standup with all (any!) of their facts right, but there is some serious discrepancy here between a mainstream news outlet and goofintink's account. I suspect there is more to this story and I hope goofntink can still hear us. He may be under a few guys in suits wearing mouse ears.... :lookaroun
As far as paid leave goes it sure sounds familiar. Didn't the same thing happen to the pour soul involved in the FTW bus vs bike tragedy?
http://www.wesh.com/themeparks/25398069/detail.html
"Orange County Sheriff's Office deputies said they presume both the driver and the Disney guest decided not to press charges since they never received a call about the incident."
Now I worked for a top 50 news grinder for a few years and I know they rarely get through a standup with all (any!) of their facts right, but there is some serious discrepancy here between a mainstream news outlet and goofintink's account. I suspect there is more to this story and I hope goofntink can still hear us. He may be under a few guys in suits wearing mouse ears.... :lookaroun
As far as paid leave goes it sure sounds familiar. Didn't the same thing happen to the pour soul involved in the FTW bus vs bike tragedy?
Tom
Beta Return
I would venture to say that there was no security actually ON the bus until he boarded the bus after the altercation. He was more than likely at the bus stop (since they position them in densely populated areas...like a bus depot at park closing) and just showed up once things started happening. They're not air marshals, and probably don't just ride around on buses.
The identity protection of the plain clothed security officers isn't critical at WDW. They're used primarily as additional eyes and ears for the security department. They work the shops often, watching for shoplifters. If they see a shoplifter, they call for back-up but they will also address the situation.
With so many guests at WDW at any given time, nobody is going to remember a certain plain clothed security member by face. Besides, they move around and work different locations so that they don't look suspicious.
(P.S. I'm not making all of this up. I actually had a long conversation with a Disney security officer one time. Probably learned way more than I should have. My information might be outdated though.)
BigThunderMatt
Well-Known Member
Working in the industry, I can tell you that you learn that not all disabilities are visually apparent. Sure, you've got your bad apples that cheat the system or the occasional person who doesn't really need an ECV for any other reason than laziness (since we will not and can not ask for any medical documentation for renting them)...but the vast majority really are legit.
Unfortunately people see wheelchairs and just automatically assume that regardless of the situation, the person is faking it to skip the line.
joel_maxwell
Permanent Resident of EPCOT
There were 2 cars and 1 van 20 feet in front of us on the other side of the bus stales.
Trust a long time creditable poster here that happens to be a CM over a media source or news paper? Anyday.
Unplugged
Well-Known Member
Hey, thanks so much for posting. I know your under no obligation to do so and Disney may prefer that you not. Most folks here like to hear news such as this because we understand the hard work CMs (drivers, park people, etc.) all put into their jobs. I see so many guests going off on drivers and boat pilots it's not funny. I understand why the normal person might have a bad day, but there is no justification in any way for this incident.
Make sure the driver knows how much support the WDWMagic members have for him in this and other cases. We appreciate the drivers and the effort that goes into trying to maintain the "happy" in "Happiest Place on Earth" (and how trying at times it may be).
They may have not been contacted about pressing charges, but it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't present at the time of the original incident......
officeboy
Active Member
Agreed.
I am in no way trying to discredit someone who sure seems to know what they are talking about. I put much more credence in goofntinks account than I do the medias. I tried to make that point, however indirect, in my previous post. But there are still some significant differences in his account versus multiple mainstream media sources.
Perhaps WDW has more control over the local media than I give them credit for... This would certainly explain the discrepancies. Ok, maybe not the media. Perhaps the OCSO PAO? As someone has previously pointed out OCSO is almost always in the parks, on and off duty.
Does anyone else see the guest slap the bus driver at the very, very beginning of the video? It seems the guy slaps the bus driver and then the driver moves in to restrain him and that's when the guest goes for his throat to push him away.
Really disgusting. They should press charges against the guest for battery (if they haven't already).
Really disgusting. They should press charges against the guest for battery (if they haven't already).
sublimesting
Well-Known Member
The bus driver doesn't have to press charges for charges to be filed. Likewise, the protagonist has no charges to press.
pennyarcade
New Member
I have to address this because I see these sorts of comments all the time and they really upset me. I have both close friends and family members with disabilities that make it difficult for them to stand or walk for long periods of time. They are capable of doing so for short stretches, but eventually the pain will become too great and they need to sit down.
YOU CANNOT TELL WHETHER SOMEONE IS DISABLED SIMPLY BY LOOKING AT THEM. I don't care if they hop off their ride and dance a jig. Also, just because someone is fat doesn't mean they're not ALSO disabled. ECVs and wheelchairs mean people with disabilities are able to enjoy the parks like those of us lucky enough to be currently able-bodied.
Believe me, I don't know anyone who wouldn't MUCH rather be able to walk for hours and hours on their own two feet. It makes me sick when folks scapegoat people who use wheelchairs and ECVs as lazy people jamming up the queue. Try walking -- or rolling -- a mile in their shoes before you pretend to know what the heck you're talking about.
MickeyPeace
Well-Known Member
Paid leave
The bus driver is on paid leave.
Let's stick to the fact as they are reported by reputable agencies.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...be-bus-driver-attack-20101014,0,7585871.story
The bus driver is on paid leave.
Let's stick to the fact as they are reported by reputable agencies.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...be-bus-driver-attack-20101014,0,7585871.story
archangel2790
Member
I think I need to make a comment here, just so that you all understand where I'm coming from. I am IN A WHEELCHAIR. My comments were about people in line for the bus griping about loading us in the buses first. It only takes me a minute, since I'm a pro at it now. Be patient!! I'd gladly trade with you to be able to enjoy the parks like I used to.
Now on a positive note, I have also heard guests stick up for disabled guests. One lady overheard another guest making some unnecessary comments, and took it upon herself to ask that guest if they had ever been in a wheelchair or ECV. The other guest answered no, and then the first lady said that maybe the other guest should shut her mouth. :wave:
Like many others, my disability is not apparent, and I am sufficiently younger than a lot of other disabled guests. I don't think I need to show the scars from both the shrapnel injuries and burns I received. People should stop and think about the fact that while I may go through a line faster than them, I may and, in fact, usually do have to wait LONGER for a specialized ride vehicle. In addition, it takes a wheelchair guest longer between attractions. Oh sure, it looks like we're just clipping along, but try to get anywhere with people jumping in front of you and then getting upset because you couldn't stop on a dime.
Now, I have paid the same amount as any ambulatory guest, am I not allowed to enjoy the parks as much? Or should I just get the heck out of the way for them and their screaming ungrateful kids? Newsflash, people. This is how I and others like me are treated. THIS is what I meant when I made the comment about the entitlement mentality being alive and well.
Rant complete.
Please understand, I'm really not attacking any one person here, just the mentality of those already mentioned.
stuart
Well-Known Member
The guest should face charges, and obviously banned for life from Disney Parks / Resorts. He was also very lucky that another guest didnt take him out when he attacked the driver. In additon - we had that driver this year when we were over and he was excellent - very chatty and pleasent. We wouldnt have had this thread had the person concerned used some common sense and folded up the stroller as they approached the front of the queue.
The Nova and Gillig buses are designed with the seat backing to the window to allow more standing room for guests. There *should* be room for two guests abreast in the isle in the main part of the bus between the doors. They seem to be sticking to the 72 rule but Im sure from when these buses entered service they were certified to carry 80-86 (i cant remember the figure).
One of the things that irritates me no end is when guests moan about how they have to stand on the buses. It is a standard practice on public transport worldwide to stand - buses, trains, underground. Every day there are buses that pass my house with school kids and most of them are standing as the bus is fulln - and thats on both single and double deck buses.
Another thing that is even worse is when guests dont actually move back when there is space to do so. I appreciate they may want to stay with family - but it is only a short bus ride - and even then if they stand where they are, they could of course motion other guests to come past them. I was quite pleased this year with the dispatchers who were actually at the rear doors a few times getting guests to move back.
In addition, if someone is in a wheelchair then they should stay on that whilst on the bus. Space is of course limited, and obviously 2 seats have been lost (compared with if that person was able bodied) - there is no real need for them to take up another one or two seats when they are secured down on the wheelchair. I should state at this point in 2002 I spent the two weeks in Disney in a wheelchair (having knackered my knee the week before we flew) and would never dream of getting off it and going to sit down on another seat. Its also stupidity to think that wheelchair guests should wait to board - you cant let some guests on, then stop while a wheelchair or two gets on - and continue boarding - will take more time and possibly end up in a guest getting hurt. Actually, one time I got taken on second and off first, as the lady in the ECV wasn't quite used to it I dont think. Well, when she got family to undo the straps she drove forward down the isle and into someone. It was this point the driver told us thats the reason why he put us on second. That is the type of thing that could happen when you load a wheelchair / ECV onto a loaded bus, so of course its better to load them first, and take them off after the able bodied guests.
The simple solution for those who do not want to stand is again a fairly obvious one. When they reach the front of the queue to see its standing room only, stand aside, allow other guests to board and wait for the next bus. But, then there is the complaint about having to wait. Unfortunatly its a bit of catch 22 situation. Either that hire a car as you don't pay parking charges at the parks.
When people ask why Disney can't rectify this so there are no long lines, and there is no standing on buses - well they could. But, you will of course pay more for your hotel, tickets, merchandise, food and drink - and you will complain about that more than waiting in line and standing. It will of course mean that guests who would have normally looked at staying on property stay off property losing Disney even more money. Why? Well you are talking about purchasing the same number of buses as there is at the moment, and then obvioulsy employing as many drivers and there isnt any point - for most of the time they would be redundant. And where will the cost of this come from - increasing prices! This is why at peak times Disney charter in buses from Mears and other operators to provide extra cover.
As has been discussed on many threads here in the past, the bus system is worked out by guest flow into the parks, and the Magic in Motion system isnt quite perfected yet.
Part the problem as well of course, as many of the transportation CMs on the ground will know, is that guests dont think about how they can get to where they are going. At MK for example when getting a bus back to Riverside - there are stops 4 and 5 in use wtih a huge queue, yet a bus to French Quarter is sitting with seats still empty. Why Riverside guests dont go and get the FQ bus is beyond me. At all other places they know its a shared bus, and from the welcome literature know there is a boat service - or you could walk.
Guests could of course go and speak with the dispatcher in the white van or a transportaion cast member and make them aware of the wait you've had. AFAIK the CM in the white van dispatches going by what the computer tells them. If that hasnt dispatched a bus to a certain hotel for a while - and the CM hasn't realised that POP / GFPOLY / POFQ/R hasnt had a bus in over 20 minutes or whatever it might be - make them aware and then increase your chances of the next bus being diverted to you from the stop the sytem was going to send it to. If they are sitting in a location with no footpath near by then why not go and ask a driver of another bus to radio across to them for you?
We go every July and usually there over the 4th and I can't really fault the system. Each time we are there there is the brace of occassions when we have a longer than normal wait. This year the lengthy wait was at POR waiting EPCOT and in the good old British fashion - you wait half an hour for a bus and two come at once. Another thing not all guests immediately realise is the time that it takes to load one or two wheelchairs, secure the guests, get everyone on, set off and then drop them off at a place. This can easily add 10 or 15 minutes or more on to the journey time - making what would have been a 20 minute wait nearer the half hour mark. In the past we have also had near 40 minutes at AK - and that hasnt happened again - and Disney Transportaion for a while came out and said that guests between POR/FQ and AK/BB may have a longer wait than the normal 20 minutes. One time when we came out of AK fairly early in the day (after a Safari and a Rainforest Cafe Breakfast) they actually put us and some S&D guests in a minivan and took us back to our hotels in that.
The Nova and Gillig buses are designed with the seat backing to the window to allow more standing room for guests. There *should* be room for two guests abreast in the isle in the main part of the bus between the doors. They seem to be sticking to the 72 rule but Im sure from when these buses entered service they were certified to carry 80-86 (i cant remember the figure).
One of the things that irritates me no end is when guests moan about how they have to stand on the buses. It is a standard practice on public transport worldwide to stand - buses, trains, underground. Every day there are buses that pass my house with school kids and most of them are standing as the bus is fulln - and thats on both single and double deck buses.
Another thing that is even worse is when guests dont actually move back when there is space to do so. I appreciate they may want to stay with family - but it is only a short bus ride - and even then if they stand where they are, they could of course motion other guests to come past them. I was quite pleased this year with the dispatchers who were actually at the rear doors a few times getting guests to move back.
In addition, if someone is in a wheelchair then they should stay on that whilst on the bus. Space is of course limited, and obviously 2 seats have been lost (compared with if that person was able bodied) - there is no real need for them to take up another one or two seats when they are secured down on the wheelchair. I should state at this point in 2002 I spent the two weeks in Disney in a wheelchair (having knackered my knee the week before we flew) and would never dream of getting off it and going to sit down on another seat. Its also stupidity to think that wheelchair guests should wait to board - you cant let some guests on, then stop while a wheelchair or two gets on - and continue boarding - will take more time and possibly end up in a guest getting hurt. Actually, one time I got taken on second and off first, as the lady in the ECV wasn't quite used to it I dont think. Well, when she got family to undo the straps she drove forward down the isle and into someone. It was this point the driver told us thats the reason why he put us on second. That is the type of thing that could happen when you load a wheelchair / ECV onto a loaded bus, so of course its better to load them first, and take them off after the able bodied guests.
The simple solution for those who do not want to stand is again a fairly obvious one. When they reach the front of the queue to see its standing room only, stand aside, allow other guests to board and wait for the next bus. But, then there is the complaint about having to wait. Unfortunatly its a bit of catch 22 situation. Either that hire a car as you don't pay parking charges at the parks.
When people ask why Disney can't rectify this so there are no long lines, and there is no standing on buses - well they could. But, you will of course pay more for your hotel, tickets, merchandise, food and drink - and you will complain about that more than waiting in line and standing. It will of course mean that guests who would have normally looked at staying on property stay off property losing Disney even more money. Why? Well you are talking about purchasing the same number of buses as there is at the moment, and then obvioulsy employing as many drivers and there isnt any point - for most of the time they would be redundant. And where will the cost of this come from - increasing prices! This is why at peak times Disney charter in buses from Mears and other operators to provide extra cover.
As has been discussed on many threads here in the past, the bus system is worked out by guest flow into the parks, and the Magic in Motion system isnt quite perfected yet.
Part the problem as well of course, as many of the transportation CMs on the ground will know, is that guests dont think about how they can get to where they are going. At MK for example when getting a bus back to Riverside - there are stops 4 and 5 in use wtih a huge queue, yet a bus to French Quarter is sitting with seats still empty. Why Riverside guests dont go and get the FQ bus is beyond me. At all other places they know its a shared bus, and from the welcome literature know there is a boat service - or you could walk.
Guests could of course go and speak with the dispatcher in the white van or a transportaion cast member and make them aware of the wait you've had. AFAIK the CM in the white van dispatches going by what the computer tells them. If that hasnt dispatched a bus to a certain hotel for a while - and the CM hasn't realised that POP / GFPOLY / POFQ/R hasnt had a bus in over 20 minutes or whatever it might be - make them aware and then increase your chances of the next bus being diverted to you from the stop the sytem was going to send it to. If they are sitting in a location with no footpath near by then why not go and ask a driver of another bus to radio across to them for you?
We go every July and usually there over the 4th and I can't really fault the system. Each time we are there there is the brace of occassions when we have a longer than normal wait. This year the lengthy wait was at POR waiting EPCOT and in the good old British fashion - you wait half an hour for a bus and two come at once. Another thing not all guests immediately realise is the time that it takes to load one or two wheelchairs, secure the guests, get everyone on, set off and then drop them off at a place. This can easily add 10 or 15 minutes or more on to the journey time - making what would have been a 20 minute wait nearer the half hour mark. In the past we have also had near 40 minutes at AK - and that hasnt happened again - and Disney Transportaion for a while came out and said that guests between POR/FQ and AK/BB may have a longer wait than the normal 20 minutes. One time when we came out of AK fairly early in the day (after a Safari and a Rainforest Cafe Breakfast) they actually put us and some S&D guests in a minivan and took us back to our hotels in that.