Goodbye, monorail drivers.......? Sorry if already posted.

[luv]

James,

if you remember when we joined the company they only hired two out of every eleven applicants (and no, I have no idea what the percentage was, I don't do math). That was because you had to meet stricter standards and actually want to perform the "role". It also appears that much of this discussion has not been about things we "assumed" and that basically is that it takes people to make the guest experience, not simply the attraction and we had it drummed into our heads that Rails was NOT an attraction. If you remember, going from the IV to the VI required moving from manual systems to automated systems that were much more restrictive and we adapted to that automation and could still kill with cycle times (the whole premise apparently behind the latest need for automation).

Yes there are other automated systems (and even Las Vegas abandoned the Disney scheme when it was discovered that all people wanted to do was go from point a to point b - besides, the biggest thing to see in LV is the back of the Bally's employment center, lol) but they're not the jumping off point or the final memory of a "magical" visit to a place that you just spent three years salary for. You and I both know folks that are still there and that they understand the old ways and why things were what they were BUT like many other companies, things change and the cast members have to adapt to the "latest and greatest" whether they like it/agree with it or not. It's simply survival and our old friends are well able to adapt and change

That said until they get rid of all of the -3mph switches even automation isn't going to solve the switch beam problems (and some of us could get through them manually just as quickly as any automation could as you very well know). Until then, put GPS in the trains and let Central monitor (and of course, report the minutia - remember turnstile readings?), put leads back in the stations to keep things running, screen applicants for the desire to perform the role and I'd bet dollars to donuts that the cycle times and guest sat ratings would improve considerably. When they finally replace the -3mph switches, let "automation" take over for those times that switching is required and as soon as the beam is cleared NV switch back to driver control.

Bottom line is that people make the experience, not just the trains, if the CM roles aren't adapted along with the automation it'll make the Monorail "experience" simply a way to get from point a to point b. Unfortunately while the execs all talk a good game regarding guest and cast experience and morale, it's all about profit. Profit and the fact that the next "generation" of park visitors isn't going to care if they actually interact with a walking, talking live human being. And green algae? REALLY? Off my soapbox

Ray

I don't know about drivers. They seem okay to me. We rode up front a few time...never asked to, but did...and the drivers seemed pleasant except the one who totally ignored us. One even gave the kids little cards like they were junior pilots or whatever. My son was so thrilled to get this and still has his, tucked away in a drawer.

Most of the staff on the platform, though, hangs around with each other these days, deigning to speak to guests only when telling them where to stand. Sometimes someone rebels and refuses to go stand there and the employee reiterates their original direction and is refused again. Then they get all indignant.

But for the most part, the guys on the platform ignore the guests and the guests ignore them. I actually wonder what their job is because they so often seem to be getting paid for standing around, doing nothing. I'm sure there IS a point to their jobs that I just don't see. I just wonder what it is.

If Disney had them there to make the guest experience better, I'd say fire them. They certainly aren't doing that. Keep a couple of the more friendly ones and get rid of the rest! But, again, I can't imagine that the actual purpose of their job is to be nice or helpful. There has to be some other (maybe safety?) purpose.

 

[scott_y]

LAGOON dude, LAGOON!!!

Finally a real driver. Having trained drivers in both the IV and VI there are some pluses to both but automation has been slowing advancing for the past 20 years.

The VIs announce MBS changes and tells the driver when to slow down, provides in detail description of any issue that may occur and provides a tattle tale for management. The trains themselves provided the cattle mentality and made loading on the platform lazy. All the loaders needed to do was group and open and close the door from one location. It was only a matter of time when the automated gates would appear.

The IVs on the other hand required the driver to look for visuals (mbs was flaky) and the drivers needed to understand their place in the cycle. Also as a former lead the requirement of understanding who were your best and to place them in trains during peak times. So the drivers had to try to excel or they found themselves loading trains during exits. Also loading of the trains required team work of the platform to an ultimate scale. These skills and teamwork are missing in the Mark VI mentality.

Basically there have not been real drivers at WDW since Coral left in 1993. I know it may upset Mark VI drivers (I am one of them too and do like the trains in fact I have a tattoo of one on my arm) But the IVs required some talent and we had to be real strict on who was allowed to drive. The Mark VI itself has led to these changes and will continue until there is no longer a need for a "pilot/conducter" to push the button

Bombardier engineers used to comment on how easy it would be to automate in 1989(it was funny to listen to them on the radio dix-quatre). Disney has resisted this change for over 22 years and they still understand that there is a need for this "role" in the show. So this article does hurt in way because we all knew it was inevitable.

~~~Scotty
Driver 1987-90
Trainer 1989-89
Transportation Lead 1989-90
Driver CR 1993-99
Trainer 1995-98
CR Central 1996-99

 

[rudyjr13]

I'm 32. Have had a love for the monorails for as long as I can remember. As current and former pilots, what is the real reason for not putting any money into the monorail infrastructure. Especially new trains since DL got new ones. I get expansion is a pipe dream but why not replace the fleet already with top notch new computer systems?

 

[donaldduck1967]

Read the article but not all 5 pages of this thread. So what happens when a squirrel jumps on the beam? Will they now get run over or will the driver have control for things like this?

 

[unkadug]

Read the article but not all 5 pages of this thread. So what happens when a squirrel jumps on the beam? Will they now get run over or will the driver have control for things like this?

Squirrels shouldn't be on the beam in the first place,

KILL IT... they are nothing more than rats with bushy tails.

 

[alissafalco]

Squirrels shouldn't be on the beam in the first place,

KILL IT... they are nothing more than rats with bushy tails.

oh so mean poor furry rat would get squashed.

 

[unkadug]

oh so mean poor furry rat would get squashed.

It's not like anyone on the monorail would see this happen anyway.

 

[MichWolv]

I don't know about drivers. They seem okay to me. We rode up front a few time...never asked to, but did...and the drivers seemed pleasant except the one who totally ignored us. One even gave the kids little cards like they were junior pilots or whatever. My son was so thrilled to get this and still has his, tucked away in a drawer.

Most of the staff on the platform, though, hangs around with each other these days, deigning to speak to guests only when telling them where to stand. Sometimes someone rebels and refuses to go stand there and the employee reiterates their original direction and is refused again. Then they get all indignant.

But for the most part, the guys on the platform ignore the guests and the guests ignore them. I actually wonder what their job is because they so often seem to be getting paid for standing around, doing nothing. I'm sure there IS a point to their jobs that I just don't see. I just wonder what it is.

If Disney had them there to make the guest experience better, I'd say fire them. They certainly aren't doing that. Keep a couple of the more friendly ones and get rid of the rest! But, again, I can't imagine that the actual purpose of their job is to be nice or helpful. There has to be some other (maybe safety?) purpose.

Had great experiences with mono platform guys at the Poly and TTC on my last trip. Friendly and engaging, including passing out cards to my kids.

 

[monorail33]

I like the idea of a person in the cab (or whatever it is called) who can break, if necessary. I prefer an older person with experience, too, not a college kid.

I'm not sure about hiring government people. I'll have to trust that Disney saw something in this guy that makes them think he will succeed.

Sam is a fantastic addition to the WDW Transportation team. He's not just a guy in an office, but I've seen him out in the operation more often than not when I worked there. He's a very hands-on kind of guy to work with, and he's looking at every aspect of the system in terms of who's operating it, operation hours, where are the guests waiting, etc...

 

[monorail33]

Finally a real driver. Having trained drivers in both the IV and VI there are some pluses to both but automation has been slowing advancing for the past 20 years.

The VIs announce MBS changes and tells the driver when to slow down, provides in detail description of any issue that may occur and provides a tattle tale for management. The trains themselves provided the cattle mentality and made loading on the platform lazy. All the loaders needed to do was group and open and close the door from one location. It was only a matter of time when the automated gates would appear.

The IVs on the other hand required the driver to look for visuals (mbs was flaky) and the drivers needed to understand their place in the cycle. Also as a former lead the requirement of understanding who were your best and to place them in trains during peak times. So the drivers had to try to excel or they found themselves loading trains during exits. Also loading of the trains required team work of the platform to an ultimate scale. These skills and teamwork are missing in the Mark VI mentality.

Basically there have not been real drivers at WDW since Coral left in 1993. I know it may upset Mark VI drivers (I am one of them too and do like the trains in fact I have a tattoo of one on my arm) But the IVs required some talent and we had to be real strict on who was allowed to drive. The Mark VI itself has led to these changes and will continue until there is no longer a need for a "pilot/conducter" to push the button

Bombardier engineers used to comment on how easy it would be to automate in 1989(it was funny to listen to them on the radio dix-quatre). Disney has resisted this change for over 22 years and they still understand that there is a need for this "role" in the show. So this article does hurt in way because we all knew it was inevitable.

~~~Scotty
Driver 1987-90
Trainer 1989-89
Transportation Lead 1989-90
Driver CR 1993-99
Trainer 1995-98
CR Central 1996-99

Having heard you and one of my trainers talk about the IV's, I wish I would've gotten to drive them. Sounds like so much fun to me! I drove from 2009-2011, and I'm happy to say that I was the lead for all of the testing of the new Peach train. Hopefully the monorail pilots of today can somehow recapture the magic of past years.

 

[scott_y]

Having heard you and one of my trainers talk about the IV's, I wish I would've gotten to drive them. Sounds like so much fun to me! I drove from 2009-2011, and I'm happy to say that I was the lead for all of the testing of the new Peach train. Hopefully the monorail pilots of today can somehow recapture the magic of past years.

It is too bad.. you would have liked it... Several trainers/Coordinators/old time drivers are still friends and I am planning on seeing most of them in a few weeks at the reunion on the 13th of October. I hope you can make it.
To me though Peach will always be Purple and Teal is Pink... I know there is a new cab etc.. But I see Monorail Purple everyday on my arm and always reminded of great times.

 

[monorail81]

It is too bad.. you would have liked it... Several trainers/Coordinators/old time drivers are still friends and I am planning on seeing most of them in a few weeks at the reunion on the 13th of October. I hope you can make it.
To me though Peach will always be Purple and Teal is Pink... I know there is a new cab etc.. But I see Monorail Purple everyday on my arm and always reminded of great times.

Can you post a picture? I would LOVE to see it. Purple was always my favorite train and Pink was the first I drove out of Traditions...

 

[scott_y]

 

[monorail81]

That is AWESOME!!! I have always loved that sketch. Makes a great tattoo. Very cool with the purple.

 

[Monorail_Red]

Well, at least they can sit and talk on the PA system.....(REALLY??)

http://attractionsmagazine.com/blog...rails-and-roadways-to-meet-increasing-growth/

-Jim
rails driver 88-91

If you ask me, the trains will loose some of their when they go driverless. If you're going to have a pilot up front there anyway, why the heck wouldn't you just have them operate the trains?

 

[Monorail_Red]

Two years... Perhaps new trains are coming?

Very unlikely. The system is at capacity as-is. New trains would not increase capacity. There's nothing wrong with the current trains. For the demanded usage, the current trains treat us well.

 

[PhilharMagician]

If you ask me, the trains will loose some of their when they go driverless. If you're going to have a pilot up front there anyway, why the heck wouldn't you just have them operate the trains?

Honestly would you know the differance between a human accelerating and stopping the train versus a computer?

Heck, go completely computer controlled and turn the opertors cab into guest compartments which would increase capacity. I would love to be in the front or back.

 

[Monorail_Red]

Sorry everyone, but I finally figured out how to multi-quote!

Its basically adding a drive component to the current MAPO system (if you have an adaptive cruise control system on your car, its something kind of like that), along with ability to monitor the location of trains along the beam.

With the way the current trains are driven, that's basically how it already works - just a glorified cruise control. We just have 5 propulsion choices, P1 thru P5 and they correspond to preset speeds. P1 = 15mph, P2 = 20mph, P3 = 25mph, P4 = 30mph, P5 = 40mph. It's not like an actual locomotive where we are operation separate throttles and braking valves.

If they go automatic people could ride up front again.

Who told you that?

I don't understand... are the Mark VI's even capable of this?

Actually, their current computers with mid-80's technology are capable of doing that. But those will receive a major overhaul.

Actually I think the good news from this article is that they hired someone who knows stuff about public transportation to oversee the transportation at WDW.

That's the good thing that will come out of all this. I have met Sam before and he is a great person, and he seems quite sharp and really knows his stuff.

I'm pretty sure monorail track is a lot more expensive than $1 million a mile and there is still a per mile cost in electicity to run them.

I think I came across a figure of $100 million per mile, but don't quote me on that. Not sure about the power.

I started as a "college kid" and I ended up staying for quite a number of years walking away from the department with several Safe Driving awards and ZERO safety violations on my record. Age doesn't have anything to do with it. It has to do with training, learning and desire to be there. May I point out that the driver of Pink was an older cast member who didn't know what beam he was on. Any decent driver who understood what it mean to "make visuals" would have been able to recognize they were on the incorrect beam. Age is not the factor in that department. It is a lack of training, caring and budget.

I can also attest to this. When I was a pilot, I was the youngest one in the department to be drive trained at the time. I had zero safety violations bit I also had great trainers. While I was there I saw some others do some things that made me think "now why on earth would you do something like that?"

The article mentioned that the monorail pilots would still enable motion of the trains. So in essence, it would be more along the lines of operating a ride. I don't think a completely automated system, where trains come and go completely on a timer, could ever work at WDW, even with modifications to the trains and station (such as fixing the "step" for wheelchairs.)

Depending on how you look at it, the trains may already fall into the "automated" category. We enable the motion by swiping our tag, putting the train in RUN, selecting a propulsion setting (P5 more often than not) and off we go. Like I said above, the current setup is like a glorified cruise control system. Pilots just select the propulsion setting, and the train does the rest.

If I'm not mistaken I don't believe that College Program particiaptants are allowed to drive the trains anymore. So you won't have to worry about an intern being in the front of the cab. Also if I heard correctly monorail blue is already equipped with the new automation software.

From what I understand, CPs are no longer placed in Monorails.

Honestly would you know the differance between a human accelerating and stopping the train versus a computer?

Yes, you can tell the difference. Because there were those pilots who only drove either in P5 (full acceleration) or B4 (full braking) in an effort to make the best lap time. But I found that the more you speed, the more you have to brake (speed zones drop sooner). So if you had a smooth driver like me or a computer, you probably couldn't tell the difference. But parking the train in the station is where I see a computer having trouble. Even the best pilots sometimes have to realign their stops.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Yes, you can tell the difference. Because there were those pilots who only drove either in P5 (full acceleration) or B4 (full braking) in an effort to make the best lap time. But I found that the more you speed, the more you have to brake (speed zones drop sooner). So if you had a smooth driver like me or a computer, you probably couldn't tell the difference. But parking the train in the station is where I see a computer having trouble. Even the best pilots sometimes have to realign their stops.

Actually I would think parking would be the easiest for a computer. A few sensor points that can be read and the train should stop on a dime. I would be more concerned out on open track like the Epcot loop. Would sensors be installed @ set distances or would GPS tracking become part of the monitoring system?

 

[Timon]

But parking the train in the station is where I see a computer having trouble. Even the best pilots sometimes have to realign their stops.

Below is picture of a Bombardier MK VI monorail in a Las Vegas station. Their automation has been aligning to automated station doors since 2004. It looks like the engineers even allowed for one foot or so misalignment.