Four Parks: One Stale World?

[Pumbas Nakasak]

If you want to compare gas prices, that is something that almost everyone in America has to deal with to lead their lives in today's society, to going to a theme park, which is a choice for recreation, obviously you have different priorities than I do.

I visit this site to get information for my family's yearly trip. I normally do not post on these forums but since I am laid up sick today I decided to put my two cents in.

I guess I am an ubber fan. If by ubber fan you mean some one who takes his family there once a year, enjoys hiomself and once he feels that he is not getting his money's worth will no longer go there. Than I am guilty as charged.

When I read alot of these posts I tend to find it ammusing how people go there all the time, dissect every little thing, complain about it, it doesn't change, and then the cycle continues. I can't understand why an adult who does not have any vested interest in a company would critique it all the time and yet keep handing the company their money.

I wish that what Disney did on a daily basis was a priority to me. That would mean my life got a whole lot simpler. In a way I am jealous of you. Salud!

So a car is compulsory, not just a habit we use like a crutch. Well in that case your right the comparison isnt valid.

And while be it only minor, I do feel as a shareholder, DVC member and regular patron, I feel I have a vested interest in the company and its performance, in much the same way as I want my employer to perform well.

As you have attempted to highlight this is one of my hobbies, and like my favourite football team, I feel Im entitled to highlight failings as well as praise success. If that makes you uncomfortable please feel free to pass the thread by.

Though on reflection I understand your jealousy.

 

[raven]

I have chosen a few statments to say none of you actually contributed to this thread one bit.

Uh, no. Someone doesn't post a thread like this and not excpect negative feedback. And there is plenty of that. So yes, people did contribute to the thread. Maybe not the way you wanted to see it but they did.

 

[WDWFigment]

I agree, like the stock market, I think DVC resale value will decline. The only saving grace is WDW gets right of first refusal. So unlike the stock market, the savings won't be passed to locals....WDW will buy them and resales at a higher price later.

Actually, Disney has not been exercising its right of first refusal much at all lately, leading to a rapid decline in the cost of DVC resale prices in the last couple of months. From what I've heard, this is being done because there is a huge inventory of unsold DVC, and Disney doesn't want to add to that ever-increasing inventory in this economy. The only times they are exercising ROFR is when they have a buyer already lined up for a specific use year at a specific property (so if you called a guide and said you wanted 40 points at Boardwalk with a Junes use year).

Resale may not be a big competitor to Disney, but it surely impacts the prices and incentives Disney offers for buying into DVC. In short, Disney has a vested interest in keeping DVC members happy, as if those members try to sell their contracts, they are impacting Disney's sales. This doesn't even get into the possibility of people simply not paying their maintenance fees or letting their contracts go idle because they aren't interested in Disney anymore. Disney may get their money up front on DVC, but there are other ways that uninterested DVC members affect the company's bottomline.

I would think that DVC would actually lead to Disney focusing more on the details, since DVC increases the "AP type" guests. Those types of guests still may be low compared to DLR, but as long as they're increasing, Disney should be motivated to please them. It seems to me that if Disney doesn't work towards plussing existing attractions, and adding new ones, it will alienate these guests.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Also, contraction (closing PI) for more of the problem (generic shopping and dining) is not helping the situation. I have a feeling this will negatively affect DVC sales and AP sales (not to mention CM morale).

 

[WDW1974]

Yes, I was not necessarily questioning your thought but that of WDW 1974. However, I may have changed that slightly, which I often do.

Point 1. Perhaps I was wrong. The fact that you did not simply call me an idiot or simply dismiss me leads me to believe that you may be willing to admit when you are wrong (not saying you are and that you may be more open minded than I had previously thought.

Why would I call you an idiot? I don't generally engage in namecalling.

As for having an open mind, well, I like to think I have one. But when I know I am right about something I will defend my beliefs quite forcefully. Sometimes people take that personally.

Point 2. We may just have to disagree on that one. My thought is that the world needs all kinds of people. There are times when a situation calls for a decisive and passionate person. There are also times when a situation calls for a "wishy-washy" or flip-flopping person who will defend all sides.

I don't know if I feel there's ever a good time to be wishy-washy. I think the reason we have so much mediocrity in the world and at the World is because people are so quick to just go with the wind direction of the moment.

Now to get back on topic. I do agree with you about the state of the parks and I do remember it from the early days. I have fond memories of River Country, Epcot Center, and when the stores on Main street all had different types of merchandise.

However, I am often careful with nostalgia because I wonder if I am remembering correctly. Was it really as good as I remembered it? Furthermore, could the parks have survived in a financial sense under the old ways? Personally, I hate that the bottom line always seems to trump show these days. But I wonder if I am being fair in that assesement? You would probably be better at answering these questions since you seem to have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings. Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.

This is an argument that is often used against those of us who do remember when WDW was a better place. It must be just our memories playing tricks. There used to be gum all over the pavement. Every shop sold the same Disney crap. The food was no better. The parks weren't open later. They always had empty stores and shuttered dining locales. CMs always weighed an average of 335 pounds. There never were any shade trees in the MK. You'd always find filthy queues with holes in the walls (like Buzz in the MK or the new TSMM at the Studios). The monorails never had working AC and you always had to take buses to get around. ... wait, I am depressing myself because we both know the above is a load of fetid BS.

The scary thing is when people start telling you that you aren't remembering things as they were ... even if you have photos or brochures or whatever to prove you aren't suffering from nostalgia.

The reality is the WDW of 2008 can't touch the WDW of 1978 or 1988. It can't.

Because it may be a bigger product, but it is a less special one. One much more about marketing might than making magic.

Would WDW run the old ________ Nunis way be financially successful in 2008? We'll never know so speculation is just wasted energy. But it would certainly make for a higher quality experience than what is being offered now.

 

[WDW1974]

Just posting how ABSURD the filters are on this site that you can't write ________ Nunis's name without it being lined out ... what about that big ________ who's our VP?

 

[CBOMB]

yeah ... thinking like that and blind 'faith' have done wonders for our country haven't they?

Pumbas is a Scotsman as well as a philosopher, and a all around renaissance man.

 

[DisneyExplorer]

I'm going to take the logical approach.

Let's look at the companies you are comparing them to in the Florida area: Sea World, Universal and Busch.

Sea World - an ocean adventure park run by a beer company.

Busch Gardens - a theme park ran by a beer company.

Universal & Islands of Adventure - 2 theme parks ran by a movie corp.

Walt Disney World - 4 parks run by a global empire that includes movie studios, television studios, book companies, sports teams, stores, global theme parks, cruise ships, internet corporations. (Touchstone Pictures, Miramax Films, Hollywood Records, Hyperion Books, ABC television networks, ESPN, Jetix, SOAPNet, GO.com, the Baby Einstein company, Muppets Studio, etc).

While I can understand someone wondering why nothing new is added to the parks, look at everything that Disney is doing elsewhere. That takes a lot of planning, time and money. The other parks don't have to compete with this.

True, but aren't all of these Disney subdivisions run by completely seperate managers? They shouldn't be connected at all besides promoting movies in the theme parks and merchandising. Each one should have a seperately alloted budget independent of the others. Whether or not Disney films are successful should not constitute whether or not a new attraction is built at one of the parks.

 

[WDW1974]

The only thing I have to say is that I am very aware of many things about WDW 1974. He definetly has a love, and a passion for all things Disney. His knowledge is well respected on numerous Disney forums. I know for a fact he has insider knowledge that reach some of the highest levels of WDW, and the entertainment world in general. I want to state again I know that for a fact. I've staked my reputation more than once on his vast knowledge. While you may not agree with him, and his posting style may rub you the wrong way, he knows his stuff about WDW. I have always known him to be fair in his judgement of other peoples statements. While we have disagreed on many things over time, he has always been respectful of my opinion, and more than a fair debator. I also have found him to seldom be wrong about anything dealing with Disney. He always speaks from the heart. I know these things to be true. So remember that before you mindlessly attack some poster that you may not know anything about. Why not show a small sense of dignity when disagreeing with another poster.

Wow! Thanks. That's very, very nice of you to say.

Another smart guy from Texas ... who'd have thunk it?:animwink:

 

[Computer Magic]

Actually, Disney has not been exercising its right of first refusal much at all lately, leading to a rapid decline in the cost of DVC resale prices in the last couple of months. From what I've heard, this is being done because there is a huge inventory of unsold DVC, and Disney doesn't want to add to that ever-increasing inventory in this economy. The only times they are exercising ROFR is when they have a buyer already lined up for a specific use year at a specific property (so if you called a guide and said you wanted 40 points at Boardwalk with a Junes use year).

Resale may not be a big competitor to Disney, but it surely impacts the prices and incentives Disney offers for buying into DVC. In short, Disney has a vested interest in keeping DVC members happy, as if those members try to sell their contracts, they are impacting Disney's sales. This doesn't even get into the possibility of people simply not paying their maintenance fees or letting their contracts go idle because they aren't interested in Disney anymore. Disney may get their money up front on DVC, but there are other ways that uninterested DVC members affect the company's bottomline.

I would think that DVC would actually lead to Disney focusing more on the details, since DVC increases the "AP type" guests. Those types of guests still may be low compared to DLR, but as long as they're increasing, Disney should be motivated to please them. It seems to me that if Disney doesn't work towards plussing existing attractions, and adding new ones, it will alienate these guests.

I guess I see it a little differenly :shrug: My question is what does Disney do if someone stops paying the yearly fee? Will they go after them legally?

 

[Computer Magic]

Also, contraction (closing PI) for more of the problem (generic shopping and dining) is not helping the situation. I have a feeling this will negatively affect DVC sales and AP sales (not to mention CM morale).

We agree

 

[WDW1974]

Actually, Disney has not been exercising its right of first refusal much at all lately, leading to a rapid decline in the cost of DVC resale prices in the last couple of months. From what I've heard, this is being done because there is a huge inventory of unsold DVC, and Disney doesn't want to add to that ever-increasing inventory in this economy. The only times they are exercising ROFR is when they have a buyer already lined up for a specific use year at a specific property (so if you called a guide and said you wanted 40 points at Boardwalk with a Junes use year).

Resale may not be a big competitor to Disney, but it surely impacts the prices and incentives Disney offers for buying into DVC. In short, Disney has a vested interest in keeping DVC members happy, as if those members try to sell their contracts, they are impacting Disney's sales. This doesn't even get into the possibility of people simply not paying their maintenance fees or letting their contracts go idle because they aren't interested in Disney anymore. Disney may get their money up front on DVC, but there are other ways that uninterested DVC members affect the company's bottomline.

I would think that DVC would actually lead to Disney focusing more on the details, since DVC increases the "AP type" guests. Those types of guests still may be low compared to DLR, but as long as they're increasing, Disney should be motivated to please them. It seems to me that if Disney doesn't work towards plussing existing attractions, and adding new ones, it will alienate these guests.

I've often said I believe DVCers could represent the best hope for WDW's park getting refreshed because people are putting up a whole lot of money to be tied to the Mouse for 43 years.

Imagine buying in back in the early 90s ... can you honestly say the park product is the same quality as back then? Let alone higher ...

The thing is the DVCers need to see the problems and organize and push the Mouse ... maybe get some stories placed in the media.

I can't imagine buying DVC in 1991 and in 2008 the same parade is playing at the MK yet so much else has disappeared with either no replacements or much lower quality ones.

 

[Computer Magic]

I've often said I believe DVCers could represent the best hope for WDW's park getting refreshed because people are putting up a whole lot of money to be tied to the Mouse for 43 years.

Imagine buying in back in the early 90s ... can you honestly say the park product is the same quality as back then? Let alone higher ...

The thing is the DVCers need to see the problems and organize and push the Mouse ... maybe get some stories placed in the media.

I can't imagine buying DVC in 1991 and in 2008 the same parade is playing at the MK yet so much else has disappeared with either no replacements or much lower quality ones.

I agree DVC has the power to make change. There is strenght with numbers. But has that happen or are people just selling the DVC? I see a lot for sale out there. That is what has kept me from buying into the DVC. I see lower quality, not enough to keep me from visiting but enough not to invest for 48years. I've stated it here many times, I don't know what WDW will be like in 10 years why would I invest in DVC.

 

[krankenstein]

I have chosen a few statments to say none of you actually contributed to this thread one bit.

I simply said this has nothing to do with either News or rumors. It should have been posted in the General Discussion section of the board.

The rest of my post did contribute to the discussion. I did say that we need to give Disney time. We are in a time of economic uncertainty. It doesn't make sense for them to make major announcements right now. If I was in charge of the company I would be holding my cards close. That is what I think they are doing. I'm sorry if you did not understand what my post meant, but that is your own problem.

 

[CBOMB]

Uh, no. Someone doesn't post a thread like this and not excpect negative feedback. And there is plenty of that. So yes, people did contribute to the thread. Maybe not the way you wanted to see it but they did.

Actually they contributed nothing. Don't you think that negative comments about someones post should at least have a reason behind them. Some of these post were of the nature of a Love it or leave it attitude. Not very conducive to a legitment discussion which this thread has turned into when people started making legitimate post.

 

[WDW1974]

Actually they contributed nothing. Don't you think that negative comments about someones post should at least have a reason behind them. Some of these post were of the nature of a Love it or leave it attitude. Not very conducive to a legitment discussion which this thread has turned into when people started making legitimate post.

I loved that post with the pic of me in my bathing suit.

My ______ hasn't looked that great in ... well, it's never looked that great!

 

[Computer Magic]

The rest of my post did contribute to the discussion. I did say that we need to give Disney time. We are in a time of economic uncertainty. It doesn't make sense for them to make major announcements right now. If I was in charge of the company I would be holding my cards close. That is what I think they are doing. I'm sorry if you did not understand what my post meant, but that is your own problem.

I've heard that several times, but the economic downturn just started to affect Disney. If Disney would have committed to the parks like Universial Harry Potter did, the attraction would be well down the path of completion. I hold the best bet for us Disney fans is a successful Universal. Competition is best. We hear about the great decade of 84-94, wasn't the the time Univeral came into play? We also need a leader like Frank was. He like the Disney brothers died too soon and their plans fell into the wrong hands.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

True, but aren't all of these Disney subdivisions run by completely seperate managers? They shouldn't be connected at all besides promoting movies in the theme parks and merchandising. Each one should have a seperately alloted budget independent of the others. Whether or not Disney films are successful should not constitute whether or not a new attraction is built at one of the parks.

Just compare and contrast Disney's film output of the 70s with WDW's growth during that decade. Even with hits in theaters coming few and far between, Disney could still afford to build and expand Tomorrowland, add more transportation, change shows and parades (and add MSEP) etc, not to mention paying $900,000 a year in losses just to keep the Old World Antiques Store open. That's because the parks were the one cash cow Disney ahd at the time but you get my point.

The parks do have a separate budget, but even with Disney's various successful franchises, growth in WDW is harder to see (aside from DVCs).

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

I simply said this has nothing to do with either News or rumors. It should have been posted in the General Discussion section of the board.
.

Which no doubt if deemed necessary the Mods will so move.

As for the economic downturn, were Disney able to see into the future, or has been intimated on many sites its just come down to the usual corporate ing contest about profit maximisation V brand development?

 

[CBOMB]

I simply said this has nothing to do with either News or rumors. It should have been posted in the General Discussion section of the board.

The rest of my post did contribute to the discussion. I did say that we need to give Disney time. We are in a time of economic uncertainty. It doesn't make sense for them to make major announcements right now. If I was in charge of the company I would be holding my cards close. That is what I think they are doing. I'm sorry if you did not understand what my post meant, but that is your own problem.

No, I assure you it's not my problem. Maybe I was to hasty in assuming that a post that was misplaced in News and Rumors rather than in General is a petty, and trite statement to bring up. I apologize for that. How much more time do you suggest we give Disney to get their maintance, and cleanliness standards back to a level they had twenty years ago.