Four Parks: One Stale World?

[WDW1974]

Just think happy thoughts, just think happy thoughts..................

yeah ... thinking like that and blind 'faith' have done wonders for our country haven't they?

 

[WDW1974]

OK let's say they do need to improve things at a more rapid rate. What are your recommendations? I would like to hear the changes that you would make if you were put in charge of the property.

That's a very good question, a fair question too ... and it deserves a thoughtful response.

I also don't want to give Disney free consulting advice here either (I do know what kind of six and seven figure contracts Disney gives its consultants in the real world, so giving them freebies just isn't in me!)

So, I guess I'll speak in generalities.

What Disney should do is go back to what made them great. Uphold the Disney Standards and don't forget the Disney Details.

That means clean, fresh, safe parks with attractions that can largely be enjoyed by those from age 8 to 88.

That means constant plussing of what is already there, while adding new reasons for people to book magical WDW vacations.

It means not having a cart of glow crap blocking the pathway in front of Norway one night last week. It means not having CMs who would dare yell at you on Buzz Lightyear because you didn't hear them ask where your party ended in the queue. It means you don't show the same tired parades and shows year in and year out. It means every shop shouldn't have the same generic Disney crap merchandise but should work to tell the story of the area it is located in. It means not dumbing menus down at fine dining locales while raising prices. It means not giving every table to advance reservations so locals and people who don't know in November where they want to have lunch on Feb. 2nd at 2:15 p.m. can actually have more than chicken fingers (of the lowest quality I might add). It means not allowing huge pathways and walkways to become simply parking lots for lazy folks who use ECVs and/or push double-wide strollers. It means not having vast 'dead zones' in parks where attractions, shops or dining locations have just been shuttered and left to decay. It means parks where the walkways are as clean as those at Sea World and where the flower beds are as maintained and manicured too.

It means not dumbing down/WalMarting to the lowest common denominator so you have a park like the MK where the lands don't have any meaning at all any more ... it's all Disney's Generic Magic Character Park ... or a giant cartoon hat tossed down in the center of an art deco recreation of Hollywood Blvd.

Above all it means thinking ... not about what Walt would do and not about what Wall Street wants (because we all see how corrupt and vile that group of Commies -- yeah that's what they've become for all of you free market lovers -- are) ... but thinking how will this decision EXCEED GUEST EXPECTATIONS.

Above all it means going back to the basics ... and the most basic thing is simply show.

Somewhere along the massive DVCing of WDW, people forgot that it's all about show.

They need to remember that.

And I got a football game that's calling me ... hope that helped!

 

[MousDad]

You never know ... everyone has their agendas.

Mine is simply to see WDW live up to its reputation and the legacy of its founders and developers.

I can't say I read this site regularly. I don't have a huge amount of time for online Disney fan sites and when I do I'll admit that I spend most of my time on LP.com.

I can only say that if the folks you mention are saying things are imminent at WDW that either they have better sources in Orlando than I do (possible) or Burbank and Glendale (very, very doubtful). I admit I know far more about what Disney is doing (and going to do) in Anaheim and China and Japan then I do with my 'home' resort these days.

But all of this talk about projects getting built just runs smack in the face with everything I have heard. And considering how uncrowded the parks are now and the unheard of levels of discounting ($49 rooms and they'll give you a 35% across the board merchandise discount!) coming up, plus what I am hearing about booking form 2009 ... well, I just don't buy Disney investing anything in WDW beyond DVC and what has already passed through financing.

Sorry, I really want to be wrong here.

I'm following you. So, to clarify, are your statements concerning WDW more knowledgeable predictions based on your knowledge of the company at the highest levels and how you think things will be shaking out, or have you actually heard a source say "x will be cut," "y is not happening," etc.?

 

[Dragonrider1227]

Exactly, how much does Disney world need? I've been to MK at least four times and I STILL haven't done everything I want to do there. Not to mention that I've yet to set foot in Animal Kingdom. WDW doesn't get as many repeaters as often so the powers that be probably don't feel it needs it as much
The only parade i'd like to see change is the day time one. I could watch Spectromagic over and over and over, personally. Though I do agree with you on the merchandise. Something's wrong when Magic Kingdom and EPCOT sell the same generic spinning light toys >>

 

[MousDad]

Exactly, how much does Disney world need? I've been to MK at least four times and I STILL haven't done everything I want to do there. Not to mention that I've yet to set foot in Animal Kingdom. WDW doesn't get as many repeaters as often so the powers that be probably don't feel it needs it as much

But with the DVC boom comes more repeaters. Those are the people that are going to start clamoring in greater numbers for ROI.

 

[Dragonrider1227]

I'm sorry but what does DVC stand for?
Also, what people tend to forget is that Disney World has a lot more to pay for than most other parks. including even Disneyland. Having four separate parks, dozens of hotel resorts, a downtown area, and hundreds of employees for each one tends to put the price tag kinda high. Places like Universal are only half that and thus don't have as much to pay for. Same deal with Disneyland. Not as big, not as complex, and doesn't have as much to pay for. this is why Disney World doesn't see the same amount of TLC as Disneyland or even Universal at times

 

[VT GAL]

But what happens when DVC members can't keep up with their maintenance fees? Or when they become 'bored' with what is offered at WDW and use it as 'just a place to stay' since it is already paid for?

You can build all the DVC resorts you want, but if there is nothing new (and I don't consider a marketing campaign as anything other than maybe a new twist) to come and see existing DVCers will consider holding out to visit and potential DVCers will be less likely to join.

Just my 2¢...

 

[Animaniac93-98]

DVC = Disney Vacation Club(s)

I still don't buy the WDW is bigger so it doesn't get more TLC than Universal or Disneyland excuse. If anything, it makes me want to go to those other places more. Besides, those more things should bring in more money right?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

But what happens when DVC members can't keep up with their maintenance fees? Or when they become 'bored' with what is offered at WDW and use it as 'just a place to stay' since it is already paid for?

You can build all the DVC resorts you want, but if there is nothing new (and I don't consider a marketing campaign as anything other than maybe a new twist) to come and see existing DVCers will consider holding out to visit and potential DVCers will be less likely to join.

Just my 2¢...

Agreed. Maybe the best kept secret for DVC owners is they don't get as much new things when they come back to WDW as they thought.

 

[disneydiva72]

But what happens when DVC members can't keep up with their maintenance fees? Or when they become 'bored' with what is offered at WDW and use it as 'just a place to stay' since it is already paid for?

You can build all the DVC resorts you want, but if there is nothing new (and I don't consider a marketing campaign as anything other than maybe a new twist) to come and see existing DVCers will consider holding out to visit and potential DVCers will be less likely to join.

Just my 2¢...

They cant use their points until they pay their fees...so you can pay $20,000+ for your DVC membership and not be able to use it until you pay up your maintenance fees for the year.

This is what happens when DVC members don't want their DVC anymore... http://www.dvc-resales.com/dvclisting.cfm

 

[Computer Magic]

which you use to build more DVC units, Id hazard a guess that most DVC purchasers are already staying at resorts so are you truly increasing the numbers, or are you just committing them to loyalty for the rest of their lives?

and once you commit them to WDW, WDW can get away with lower standards. The only way out of the contract is to sell it so Disney gets their money....

 

[VT GAL]

Hi disneydiva72!

I understand how DVC works, but I what I was referring to was the lost revenue for those that don't know how to resell or rent their points. Or those who at one point could afford it, but now cannot make their payments and just flake out of paying.

IMO if I was going to pony up that kind of cash and time commitment in advance, I would want to see some sort of a growth plan of some sort or past statistics of growth and development of the parks and amenitites to know that my investment would be a good one in terms of 'new' things to experience.

It seems as if they have put a lot of eggs in the DVC basket without really having the future in mind. I want to believe that there is 'a great big beautiful tomorrow' as far as new and plussing of old attractions goes, but the overall current state of the parks in terms of show and service makes it harder for me to believe.

 

[yankspy]

Critical thought is the aim of my post (which, in this case, just so happens to be being critical, as well). If WDW1974 is not open to critique of his opinion, then he does not deserve people defending his decision to challenge WDW. I guess I should takes into account a poster's history before commenting.

Yes, I was not necessarily questioning your thought but that of WDW 1974. However, I may have changed that slightly, which I often do.

Bingo!



That's not true. I am always willing to listen to an intelligent, articulate argument, even if it differs with my POV. It would be very boring if we all agreed on everything ... of course there wouldn't be any wars ... anyway

And I am often wrong. But not often about WDW and how it is being (mis)run.



Passion is a great trait. And it runs deeply in my family. I respect passion, even when it is opposed to mine. I don't really like wishy-washy. If you have a point, defend it. If you have an opinion, tell me why.

I don't quite understand how one posts in an aggressive manner ... I guess that just means I am forceful in what I write. If so, I am quite content with that.

Point 1. Perhaps I was wrong. The fact that you did not simply call me an idiot or simply dismiss me leads me to believe that you may be willing to admit when you are wrong (not saying you are and that you may be more open minded than I had previously thought.

Point 2. We may just have to disagree on that one. My thought is that the world needs all kinds of people. There are times when a situation calls for a decisive and passionate person. There are also times when a situation calls for a "wishy-washy" or flip-flopping person who will defend all sides.

Now to get back on topic. I do agree with you about the state of the parks and I do remember it from the early days. I have fond memories of River Country, Epcot Center, and when the stores on Main street all had different types of merchandise.

However, I am often careful with nostalgia because I wonder if I am remembering correctly. Was it really as good as I remembered it? Furthermore, could the parks have survived in a financial sense under the old ways? Personally, I hate that the bottom line always seems to trump show these days. But I wonder if I am being fair in that assesement? You would probably be better at answering these questions since you seem to have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings. Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.

 

[disneydiva72]

No no VT GAL I wasn't suggesting you didn't understand....I think my typed words didn't actually come across the way I meant them, it was with more sarcasm really, if you could have actually HEARD me say it you would have know it wasn't to belittle YOU in any way...I was using your words more as a platform, Im sorry!!

IMO if I was going to pony up that kind of cash and time commitment in advance, I would want to see some sort of a growth plan of some sort or past statistics of growth and development of the parks and amenitites to know that my investment would be a good one in terms of 'new' things to experience.

It seems as if they have put a lot of eggs in the DVC basket without really having the future in mind. I want to believe that there is 'a great big beautiful tomorrow' as far as new and plussing of old attractions goes, but the overall current state of the parks in terms of show and service makes it harder for me to believe.

I absolutely agree with you, which is why I would not be pulled into DVC...to me, in my opinion, its just not worth it. When I went on the DVC walk I had a lot of questions they could not answer for me or the answers they gave me me were too "Mr. Joe Salesman"

 

[CaptainMichael]

But to be fair, Potterland is the first major attraction to open since IOA opened.

Animal Kingdom opened at the same time and has only received one major addition (Everest) in the same time period, and IoA was/still is a much more complete park.

 

[VT GAL]

No worries! I am sorry if I came off as defensive!

I guess as long as they get their money they could care less about customer loyalty and satisfaction.

I definitely think that the DVC resale sites are going to see an upawing in their business this year...

 

[Computer Magic]

Hi disneydiva72!

I understand how DVC works, but I what I was referring to was the lost revenue for those that don't know how to resell or rent their points. Or those who at one point could afford it, but now cannot make their payments and just flake out of paying.

IMO if I was going to pony up that kind of cash and time commitment in advance, I would want to see some sort of a growth plan of some sort or past statistics of growth and development of the parks and amenitites to know that my investment would be a good one in terms of 'new' things to experience.

It seems as if they have put a lot of eggs in the DVC basket without really having the future in mind. I want to believe that there is 'a great big beautiful tomorrow' as far as new and plussing of old attractions goes, but the overall current state of the parks in terms of show and service makes it harder for me to believe.

That is the problem with DVC. WDW has you under contract which I'm sure is ironed tight. I doubt you can break the contract withoug filing bankruptcy. You can sell but what if there are no buyers? WDW is locking people in with past success and there are no ties to keeping currently WDW standards.

I can see DVC as becoming a place to stay. I'm not DVC but I actually enjoyed the resort more then the parks my last visit...

 

[Computer Magic]

I definitely think that the DVC resale sites are going to see an upawing in their business this year...

I agree, like the stock market, I think DVC resale value will decline. The only saving grace is WDW gets right of first refusal. So unlike the stock market, the savings won't be passed to locals....WDW will buy them and resales at a higher price later.

 

[CBOMB]

The point of getting on a Disney discussion board and saying what an awful place it is does what??? If you don't like it that much, don't go.

Speak with your wallet, not on a message board. Your point will be made much louder.

:sohappy::sohappy::sohappy::sohappy::sohappy:

It's his opinion which is fine. It does sound like a personal anti Disney rant more than anything else, which makes me less inclined to read his valid or invalid points.

Seriously? This is probably the worst argument ever presented here.

My question is what does this have to do with news and rumors? :shrug:

I understand where the OP is coming from, but I think we need to give Disney time. Just because we haven't heard anything doesn't mean things aren't in motion.

You do know we're in a recession.....right?

Anyone else notice the OP hasn't responded yet? Sounds like someone's just trying to make some drama on the boards.

I 2nd that!! :sohappy::sohappy::sohappy:

I have chosen a few statments to say none of you actually contributed to this thread one bit. It is upsetting to me how many times in these forums when a poster comes on here and is attacked for making a negative observation about WDW. Do you really think that enhances this site or it's reputation amoung the different Disney communities?

which you use to build more DVC units, Id hazard a guess that most DVC purchasers are already staying at resorts so are you truly increasing the numbers, or are you just committing them to loyalty for the rest of their lives?

Rather than dining deals if Disney want people to stay in the parks longer it should give them more to do, and I dont mean standing in line for hours

A very astute, and insightful observation.

The only thing I have to say is that I am very aware of many things about WDW 1974. He definetly has a love, and a passion for all things Disney. His knowledge is well respected on numerous Disney forums. I know for a fact he has insider knowledge that reach some of the highest levels of WDW, and the entertainment world in general. I want to state again I know that for a fact. I've staked my reputation more than once on his vast knowledge. While you may not agree with him, and his posting style may rub you the wrong way, he knows his stuff about WDW. I have always known him to be fair in his judgement of other peoples statements. While we have disagreed on many things over time, he has always been respectful of my opinion, and more than a fair debator. I also have found him to seldom be wrong about anything dealing with Disney. He always speaks from the heart. I know these things to be true. So remember that before you mindlessly attack some poster that you may not know anything about. Why not show a small sense of dignity when disagreeing with another poster.

 

[MrDrProf. Drake]

sums this whole topic up

T_T