Four Parks: One Stale World?

[raven]

Anyone else notice the OP hasn't responded yet? Sounds like someone's just trying to make some drama on the boards.

 

[Kelsybelle]

Originally posted by WDWFigment

As for simply "not going" if you aren't pleased with a product, well, that is one solution. However, I think there is nothing wrong with offering a critique of something you enjoy. Sure, the best way to get the company to change is hit them with your pocket book, but I think articulating a rational, well thought opinion of the company's shortcomings is nice food for thought. It would do some folks a service if they were to think critically about things, rather than simply having a unquestioning (and blind) reverence for things.

Very well said, I agree 100%...

 

[Rosso11]

As for simply "not going" if you aren't pleased with a product, well, that is one solution. However, I think there is nothing wrong with offering a critique of something you enjoy. Sure, the best way to get the company to change is hit them with your pocket book, but I think articulating a rational, well thought opinion of the company's shortcomings is nice food for thought. It would do some folks a service if they were to think critically about things, rather than simply having a unquestioning (and blind) reverence for things.

I agree with you as well. Stating your opinion does not mean your anti-Disney. This came from WDW1974, he is well respected on the Disney fan boards. Hes not some random person coming on her to bash Disney. I know for a fact these boards are monitored by Disney. They listen to our feedback. These boards are free research tools for them. The information they get on these boards are extremely valuable to them. Doesn't mean they act on our opinions but they do read them. WDW1974 is just trying to start a constructive conversation about Disney.

 

[Glasgow]

I agree with you as well. Stating your opinion does not mean your anti-Disney. This came from WDW1974, he is well respected on the Disney fan boards. Hes not some random person coming on her to bash Disney. I know for a fact these boards are monitored by Disney. They listen to our feedback. These boards are free research tools for them. The information they get on these boards are extremely valuable to them. Doesn't mean they act on our opinions but they do read them. WDW1974 is just trying to start a constructive conversation about Disney.

Chalk up another one in the 'agree' column. Just because you are critical of something does not necessarily mean you do not like it. The purpose of this board is not just to talk about the good stuff but also to DISCUSS the not so good stuff, or at least areas that can be improved. I see nothing wrong with this.

If you don't agree with the OP or this thread in general then don't respond. Just remember .... DISCUSSION board, not GOOD NEWS board.

:wave:

 

[yankspy]

The point of getting on a Disney discussion board and saying what an awful place it is does what??? If you don't like it that much, don't go.

On the contrary he seems to love the place. I think his point was that he is upset about what is happening to it.

it's a personal thought as well as saying stuff.... it spurs conversation and thoughts on the concept. He does bring up interesting points on attractions being made elsewhere and comparing it to what disney is doing right now.

Yes he does. However, at times he injects a lot of political sophistry in his posts.

You do know we're in a recession.....right?

Technically no. That term has a specific definition and has specific requirements in order to be used. Tough times, absolutely. Perhaps I am engaging in semantics with the proper use of that term but I feel it is important, especially when one is trying to compare it to other times in history when similar things have happened, as all people should do.

Let's just assume ties here are correct. The problem I see with this is that you're assuming each company has the same, or similar, resources. I think that's probably a mistake. I think it is a simple game of proportions.

For instance, if a company is more complicated, and has multiple branches, it is going to have proportionally more employees to run those branches. If you're talking from a money perspective, each of these branches is bringing in its own money, so its not like each cannot have its own growth simultaneously going on. The same proportionality principle can be applied to any resources, I think.

I think it works as a convenient excuse for Disney ("we aren't building now because we have this Timeshare project in Hawaii" [I'm not saying they're actually using this excuse in any official capacity]) but I don't think it holds water.

As for simply "not going" if you aren't pleased with a product, well, that is one solution. However, I think there is nothing wrong with offering a critique of something you enjoy. Sure, the best way to get the company to change is hit them with your pocket book, but I think articulating a rational, well thought opinion of the company's shortcomings is nice food for thought. It would do some folks a service if they were to think critically about things, rather than simply having a unquestioning (and blind) reverence for things.

Being critical and critical thought are two different things. Critical thought, as showcased by Plato, requires that you approach a subject from all angles. WDW1974 already has his opinion and I do agree with a lot of it, but he often refuses to consider the opposing argument.

Chalk up another one in the 'agree' column. Just because you are critical of something does not necessarily mean you do not like it. The purpose of this board is not just to talk about the good stuff but also to DISCUSS the not so good stuff, or at least areas that can be improved. I see nothing wrong with this.

If you don't agree with the OP or this thread in general then don't respond. Just remember .... DISCUSSION board, not GOOD NEWS board.

:wave:

Discussion is great. However, one has to be willing to discuss. That requires a person to consider that they may be wrong.


Edit: After reading my post I realized that I may have offended some. I do not mean to do so, I am simply offering some observations. I would also like to say to WDW1974 that I do not mean to fight with you, you just seem to post in a very aggressive manner at times. I appreciate your passion but "Passion governs, and it never governs wisely". I guess what I am trying to say here is that I am fully willing at all times to admit that I may be full of it and that my opinions are wrong. I just wish that others would think that way as well.

 

[disneygirl76]

:sohappy::sohappy::sohappy::sohappy::sohappy:

I 2nd that!! :sohappy::sohappy::sohappy:

 

[wdwCC]

I appreciate your passion but "Passion governs, and it never governs wisely"

Very true.

Being "stale" totally depends on your point of view. Until 2 weeks ago I had never been to Pop Century, hadn't seen the updated HM, POTC, SSE. Had never seen Philharmagic, Mission Space, Soarin', and Motor Stunt Show. This was my first MNSSHP. I would not consider the things I did stale. Does Disney do everything right, no. Do they sometimes stick with what works too much, yes. I know it's one person's viewpoint calling the world stale, but it is looking at things through a very narrow lens.

Just my two cents.

 

[WDWFigment]

Being critical and critical thought are two different things. Critical thought, as showcased by Plato, requires that you approach a subject from all angles. WDW1974 already has his opinion and I do agree with a lot of it, but he often refuses to consider the opposing argument.

Critical thought is the aim of my post (which, in this case, just so happens to be being critical, as well). If WDW1974 is not open to critique of his opinion, then he does not deserve people defending his decision to challenge WDW. I guess I should takes into account a poster's history before commenting.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

*looks at calendar*

Just wait and see...:wave:

 

[ChrisFL]

I'm not saying that the other parks don't I'm just saying that Disney will always iron out every tiny detail over and over again.

I wouldn't say always. Dino-Rama, DCA, the new Journey into Imagination incarnations, etc. are evidence of that.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I wouldn't say always. Dino-Rama, DCA, the new Journey into Imagination incarnations, etc. are evidence of that.

And aren't these things all been discussed before..?


The answer's lie in our past...!:lol:

 

[WDW1974]

The point of getting on a Disney discussion board and saying what an awful place it is does what??? If you don't like it that much, don't go.

I have never in my life said WDW was an awful place.

Read what is written. Not what is in your head.

I love WDW. That's why I visit. That's why I was one of the first 3,000 people to buy an AP ... ever.

That's why I've spent so much money I don't even want to comtemplate how much.

What I do want is WDW to live up to its reputation and the legacy of its founders.

It isn't doing so now. Not even close. It's offering recycled magic to largely bumpkin tourists and newbies who never visited in the 1970s and 80s (many even 90s) who have no idea how much better the place used to be run.

Any questions?

 

[WDW1974]

My question is what does this have to do with news and rumors? :shrug:

I understand where the OP is coming from, but I think we need to give Disney time. Just because we haven't heard anything doesn't mean things aren't in motion.

Well ... if you mean plans to lay off CMs and make even more cutbacks that will lower the quality of guests' magical WDW vacations are in motion than you're right.

If you mean you haven't heard anything officially about the MK Fantasyland project being shelved, since it was never announced after all so it was never in motion anyway, you're right.

If you mean the Space Mountain redo, that has become little more than a once in a quarter of a century cleaning, being in motion at some 2009 date, you're right.

If you mean that Disney is desperately trying to get any outside companies to come in and operate dining and retail on what was Pleasure Island, yeah, that's in motion too.

If you mean that Disney is likely to extend Typhoon Lagoon's already unheard of five-month closure to six or seven months as something that's in motion, you'd be right too.

yeah, plenty of things are in motion at Disney, but the problem is the direction the motion is taking ...

 

[WDW1974]

Universal Orlando Resort isn't own by NBC Universal, it is just a partnership. And the only thing that is really been done (with already a delay is Harry Potter). The Roller Coaster is a clone from Universal Shanghai.

SeaWorld and Bush Gardens is been sold to another company after the merger of Bush with that other beer company from Germany.

Now Disney feels like a "stale world" sometimes but give it a moment to see that is sometimes not the quantity but the quality of the attraction (ok give or take).

Is not an easy process from Blue Sky to a finished product. And how many changes in the progress of the creation. Is not like Disney may go to a Roller coaster and say can you copy this coaster in my park. (they may, but boy how they can build excitement on a cue line.)

Universal is controlled by NBC. They don't have any park in Shanghai or anywhere in China.

Busch's sale is far from a done deal with the world-wide economic collapse.

And if Blackstone comes in and takes over the Universal and Busch parks under one umbrella, something that could well happen, Disney is in for a world of hurt both domestically and overseas where Universal and Busch have multiple parks in planning and/or construction.

 

[Enigma]

Well ... if you mean plans to lay off CMs and make even more cutbacks that will lower the quality of guests' magical WDW vacations are in motion than you're right.

If you mean you haven't heard anything officially about the MK Fantasyland project being shelved, since it was never announced after all so it was never in motion anyway, you're right.

If you mean the Space Mountain redo, that has become little more than a once in a quarter of a century cleaning, being in motion at some 2009 date, you're right.

If you mean that Disney is desperately trying to get any outside companies to come in and operate dining and retail on what was Pleasure Island, yeah, that's in motion too.

If you mean that Disney is likely to extend Typhoon Lagoon's already unheard of five-month closure to six or seven months as something that's in motion, you'd be right too.

yeah, plenty of things are in motion at Disney, but the problem is the direction the motion is taking ...

Your right on dude thats why I stoped going and didn't renew my AP. I stoped rewarding bad decision making. Maybe in a year when the parks have been ghost towns for a couple of months they will preform a house cleaning and bring in people with bold fresh ideas that don't involve outsourcing, cartoon tie-ins, gimmicks, and mediocre new attractions.

 

[Hrudey3032]

I have never in my life said WDW was an awful place.

Read what is written. Not what is in your head.

I love WDW. That's why I visit. That's why I was one of the first 3,000 people to buy an AP ... ever.

That's why I've spent so much money I don't even want to comtemplate how much.

What I do want is WDW to live up to its reputation and the legacy of its founders.

It isn't doing so now. Not even close. It's offering recycled magic to largely bumpkin tourists and newbies who never visited in the 1970s and 80s (many even 90s) who have no idea how much better the place used to be run.

Any questions?

i agree that WDW 2008 does not come close to equaling WDW 1981(MY 1st time there) while I love the place with all my heart i think that certain aspects of WDW have become stale. Lets face it does Stitch Great Escape or Monsters Inc Laugh factory bring the same allure that Alien Encounter and Timekeeper did?No. Do I enjoy the replacements? Somewhat but they don't make me want to go back.What does keep me coming back are classics like HM,POTC,BTMRR,SSE,TTA,and the new greats Soarin',Buzz Lightyear Space ranger Spin,and Test Track.What has made Disney a lifelong enjoyment was the fact they took chances and expanded,renovated and came up with new ground breaking ideas.Now they seem to be in a holding pattern.Is it the economy?Possibly but I think it is more upper management afraid of taking risks.I hope that things turn around soon(trust me I will still be going) or the competetion will start to catch up.

 

[WDW1974]

Anyone else notice the OP hasn't responded yet? Sounds like someone's just trying to make some drama on the boards.

The OP doesn't live online, like some do.

He apologizes for that.

The thread wasn't really started other than to promote discussion. I don't have much to add to what was written. I believe it speaks for itself whether you agree with what was written, in full or part, or disagree.

I have real drama in my real life, so I don't come here to play.

 

[Hrudey3032]

The OP doesn't live online, like some do.

He apologizes for that.

The thread wasn't really started other than to promote discussion. I don't have much to add to what was written. I believe it speaks for itself whether you agree with what was written, in full or part, or disagree.

I have real drama in my real life, so I don't come here to play.

How dare you have a normal life! :lookaroun

 

[WDW1974]

On the contrary he seems to love the place. I think his point was that he is upset about what is happening to it.

Bingo!

Being critical and critical thought are two different things. Critical thought, as showcased by Plato, requires that you approach a subject from all angles. WDW1974 already has his opinion and I do agree with a lot of it, but he often refuses to consider the opposing argument.

Discussion is great. However, one has to be willing to discuss. That requires a person to consider that they may be wrong.

That's not true. I am always willing to listen to an intelligent, articulate argument, even if it differs with my POV. It would be very boring if we all agreed on everything ... of course there wouldn't be any wars ... anyway

And I am often wrong. But not often about WDW and how it is being (mis)run.

Edit: After reading my post I realized that I may have offended some. I do not mean to do so, I am simply offering some observations. I would also like to say to WDW1974 that I do not mean to fight with you, you just seem to post in a very aggressive manner at times. I appreciate your passion but "Passion governs, and it never governs wisely". I guess what I am trying to say here is that I am fully willing at all times to admit that I may be full of it and that my opinions are wrong. I just wish that others would think that way as well.

Passion is a great trait. And it runs deeply in my family. I respect passion, even when it is opposed to mine. I don't really like wishy-washy. If you have a point, defend it. If you have an opinion, tell me why.

I don't quite understand how one posts in an aggressive manner ... I guess that just means I am forceful in what I write. If so, I am quite content with that.

 

[WDW1974]

Very true.

Being "stale" totally depends on your point of view. Until 2 weeks ago I had never been to Pop Century, hadn't seen the updated HM, POTC, SSE. Had never seen Philharmagic, Mission Space, Soarin', and Motor Stunt Show. This was my first MNSSHP. I would not consider the things I did stale. Does Disney do everything right, no. Do they sometimes stick with what works too much, yes. I know it's one person's viewpoint calling the world stale, but it is looking at things through a very narrow lens.

Just my two cents.

Of course it depends on your POV.

That's where perspective comes in.

If someone visits WDW for the first time ever this week and says it's the greatest place in the world, they likely won't understand/comprehend my criticisms.

But with age and experience comes perspective. I have been a regular visitor to WDW since 1974, an APer since 1982, an APer in Anaheim and Paris as well in the past decade. I recently visited HKDL for the first time. I've also cruised with Disney and have friends that work (and used to) in many areas of the company from frontline park CMs to Imagineers to marketing execs to animators to folks who work both behind the camera and in front of it for ABC too.

I'm not saying that to make people think 'he's special' but rather so you know where I am coming from.

When I say WDW is stale, I fully realize it may not feel that way to many visitors and I respect that.

But it doesn't change my feelings one bit because I know what the place was like in the 70s and 80s (and most of the 90s) and how different a place it is now ... it is scary how far standards have dropped in so many areas of show from empty flower beds with wood chips to dirty walkways with gum splotches on them to slovenly CMs to managers/leads wearing everyday clothes while onstage with cell phones, Blackberrys and lanyards dangling to attractions operating with many effects 101 to closing attractions, shops and dining hours before a park's official closing time to having so many dead zones in parks to even having a water park sit and rot in view of anyone who walks/boats on by etc ...

WDW is still an amazing place.

But it is a pale shadow of what it once was.

Bigger isn't better. It just makes for a much larger mess when you have an economic disaster like the one we're having now.

If Disney didn't have four parks and 25,000-plus resort rooms to fill nightly then they wouldn't be in the mess they are in now.

And how they are (and will be) dealing with that situation isn't good for anyone who wants the place to be as great as its reputation and its legacy demands.

I'm sorry if that offends those who enjoy mediocrity. I don't.