First the napkins, now the cups?

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alissafalco

Well-Known Member
They know averages. Some days will be more and others less. They aren't omnipotent. Besides, for all we know they had everything set and ordered and the supplier of the cups failed to deliver on time for some reason. This is not like 20 years ago where a company would keep a full two weeks supply or more in storage. You keep your costs down by ordering enough for a couple of days at a time. Warehousing is expensive. However, it does put you at risk if there is a supply chain issue. I'm sure Hurricane Isaac has probably caused a few supply chain issues that will appear over the next week or so for many companies, not necessarily Disney. But in today's logistics driven system, disruptions do happen. Remember when everyone thought Disney had run out of Coca-Cola products in bottles some time ago only to find out it was a concern with the product that came from the bottler? These things do happen. The system is not perfect.
They know averages. Some days will be more and others less. They aren't omnipotent. Besides, for all we know they had everything set and ordered and the supplier of the cups failed to deliver on time for some reason. This is not like 20 years ago where a company would keep a full two weeks supply or more in storage. You keep your costs down by ordering enough for a couple of days at a time. Warehousing is expensive. However, it does put you at risk if there is a supply chain issue. I'm sure Hurricane Isaac has probably caused a few supply chain issues that will appear over the next week or so for many companies, not necessarily Disney. But in today's logistics driven system, disruptions do happen. Remember when everyone thought Disney had run out of Coca-Cola products in bottles some time ago only to find out it was a concern with the product that came from the bottler? These things do happen. The system is not perfect.

Im well aware of what you are saying. I work for the largest liquor distributor in the country. Now, having that said, it has absolutely nothing to do with what the OP stated as to why they don't have printed cups. The OP said it was because they didn't want to place another order.
 

rudyjr13

Well-Known Member
Think this might be a reason they run out, or even stop printing them? If every guest did this they would be spending no telling how much each year, passing the cost on to those who cause them to do it.....

Yeah I hear you but the counter point is to look at what I choose to pay to go down there and pay for food to grab said napkins. Am I entitled to throw the extra 5-10 I grabbed and didn't use for my meal into my backpack for later? And I may do the same for generic napkins. They come in handy with 2 toddlers.

One could also argue as the prices have risen over the past 5-10 years, the cost of "lost" napkins was made up in increased charges.

Again, not earth shattering if they never return but disappointing.
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
Yeah I hear you but the counter point is to look at what I choose to pay to go down there and pay for food to grab said napkins. Am I entitled to throw the extra 5-10 I grabbed and didn't use for my meal into my backpack for later? And I may do the same for generic napkins. They come in handy with 2 toddlers.

One could also argue as the prices have risen over the past 5-10 years, the cost of "lost" napkins was made up in increased charges.

Again, not earth shattering if they never return but disappointing.
Right but it's that entitlement line of thinking that compounds into a real problem. If you know you regularly don't use the five to ten napkins every time, why do you continue to take them, other than to take them home with you.
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
Disney knows exactly how many cups they use per day throughout the year. All of that info is tracked, so even if what you're saying is true, thats a very sorry excuse. I also find it hard to believe that they can't order the cups in smaller amounts to fit their needs.
I will be there Sept.15th so we shall see.
I have to agree with this. Also, if they have these Coca Cola cups to use when supply runs out that means they are aware there will be a 'stop gap' so why not have cups with at least a Disney emblem or logo to use when said stop gap occurs. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I get a Coca Cola cup for my drink. It just seems like a rather easy thing to be prepared for.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Disney knows exactly how many cups they use per day throughout the year. All of that info is tracked, so even if what you're saying is true, thats a very sorry excuse. I also find it hard to believe that they can't order the cups in smaller amounts to fit their needs.
I will be there Sept.15th so we shall see.

When you do custom printing/etc.. you have to produce in volume to maintain your price points. You forecast need and order en mass ahead of time, replenishing as your inventory hits certain marks based on your run rate of consumption. It's not very ecnomical when you make a mistake, or need things sooner, or in small batches to 'fit the gap'.

They could have been cutting it close because maybe the unit of measure they have to order is so large and where their current inventory was forecasted.. and if their actual run rate were to go beyond normal.. you could end up with a shortage and no cheap way to address it.. except with generic napkins.

When you are the only buyer of a product.. you can't just pickup a few extra sleeves... you gotta pay for the setup of the run again and order a reasonable unit.

Or.. they could have just be being cheap all along.. knowing there would be a gap and just accepting the solution as an interim from the start.

Only their people would know the true story..
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I understand what you are saying, but I have to disagree that this indicates an overall loss of something significant. Close down WoL without a replacement, shut down the original Imagination and replace it with something laughable, but not funny, have empty buildings and former attractions collecting cobwebs in DHS, those are the indicators of cost cutting and as such, should be disapproved of very vocally.

Napkins and Cups are disposable, one time use objects. The amount of money spent on them is, when compared with other expenses, almost unnoticeable. And it is unnoticed by just about everyone except those of us on the verge of treatable obsession with all things Disney. It is a disposable object, designed to hold a liquid or wipe waste food away from our faces, hands or objects. They may be collected by a few, but they are not collectables. I doubt if they would get much attention on e-bay. Either way, I doubt if printing on them or not pays any of Igor's bonuses. However, the use of inks on otherwise biodegradable items might be cause for concern. I don't know if it is or not, but I can see where it might be. Most inks are petroleum based.

Anyway, I think that is the crux of the disagreement. The magnitude of the problem in relation to the other, more important ones, just seems a little less then important to many.
All of what you write is reasonable and I don’t think our views are that far apart. I hope you’ll be patient as I provide additional thoughts.

First, it has been suggested WDW is eliminating items such as printed napkins exactly because there were too many people collecting these, effectively receiving “free” souvenirs (never mind that the price of these are already built into the prices of food & tickets so they are not really free) instead of buying them at the store. I have no idea if this is true but it is an interesting suggestion.

Second, as many previously have written, what is supposed to separate WDW from the competition (and which still does but only by an ever shrinking margin) is WDW’s attention to detail. WDW used to pride itself on getting the details right and did very well financially for decades by focusing on customer satisfaction, not on cutting corners. It was Walt Disney himself who believed quality was more important than money, who believed the money would be there if you gave your customers the very best, gave them a reason to spend their money. And he was right. Despite numerous doubters, DL was wildly successful financially because he created an entire new level of entertainment. (Yes, I know DL had problems when it first opened but these were nearly all resolved within a few months. In less than a year, DL was a huge financial success.) Walt was always trying to “plus” the DL experience (the word Walt used for continuous improvement), a philosophy those remaining at Disney continued for decades. It seems to be a lesson executives at Universal learned very well over the last few years. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to be a lesson current Disney management has remembered. For the last decade, current Disney management seems to be more focused on trying to “minus” the WDW experience.

Third, I do not believe Iger had anything directly to do with the decisions to reduce maintenance budgets, eliminate the third EMH, get rid of WDW specific napkins, or any one of many other cutbacks. However, indirectly he very much did. Iger decided to use the profits from theme parks to fund (among other things) more cruise ships and the Marvel acquisition. Iger decided WDW would still have to meet revenue and profit objectives without providing the funding necessary to grow the theme park through traditional means (i.e. building new attractions). Under these circumstances, it’s perhaps understandable TDO resorted to short-term gimmicks (demonstrated in business to adversely impact long-term success); layoffs, cutbacks, and price increases. (You mean customers aren’t happy to pay more for less? You mean in the recently announced 12.5% DDP price increase money couldn’t be found for printed napkins?) Worst of all, Iger decided to put himself ahead of his customers. Iger decided he and the rest of Disney leadership deserved astronomical bonuses more than WDW’s customers deserved new attractions, a working Yeti, a third EMH, or printed paper napkins. All these things and more. All the things that make WDW, dare I say it, a magical place.

It appears Disney leadership might finally be waking from their slumber. It looks like substantial WDW improvements are finally on the way, even if the best might not be completed until after Iger leaves. Let’s hope the cups will be back soon and the napkins won’t be far behind. Maybe we can get a working Yeti and some light bulbs replaced as well. (It might be a while before we get a third evening EMH again.) Let’s hope Disney leadership doesn’t use these long-overdue improvements as an excuse to raise ticket prices another 10% next year (sorry to all you AP holders out there) and DDP prices another 12.5%.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Right but it's that entitlement line of thinking that compounds into a real problem. If you know you regularly don't use the five to ten napkins every time, why do you continue to take them, other than to take them home with you.
Entitlement? I suggest the cost of a few extra napkins is already factored into the price of my Cosmic Ray's $9.19 cheeseburger & fries and $2.89 coke. Just like the embossed napkins from McDonald's are factored into the price of my dollar menu McDouble and Sweet Tea. (Sorry, I don't know the price of McDonald's fries.)
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
Entitlement? I suggest the cost of a few extra napkins is already factored into the price of my Cosmic Ray's $9.19 cheeseburger & fries and $2.89 coke. Just like the embossed napkins from McDonald's are factored into the price of my dollar menu McDouble and Sweet Tea. (Sorry, I don't know the price of McDonald's fries.)
And maybe if those few extra napkins were not used, that cost would be factored out.
 

alissafalco

Well-Known Member
When you do custom printing/etc.. you have to produce in volume to maintain your price points. You forecast need and order en mass ahead of time, replenishing as your inventory hits certain marks based on your run rate of consumption. It's not very ecnomical when you make a mistake, or need things sooner, or in small batches to 'fit the gap'.

They could have been cutting it close because maybe the unit of measure they have to order is so large and where their current inventory was forecasted.. and if their actual run rate were to go beyond normal.. you could end up with a shortage and no cheap way to address it.. except with generic napkins.

When you are the only buyer of a product.. you can't just pickup a few extra sleeves... you gotta pay for the setup of the run again and order a reasonable unit.

Or.. they could have just be being cheap all along.. knowing there would be a gap and just accepting the solution as an interim from the start.

Only their people would know the true story..

Yes, only their people would know the true story. So this is your guessing. But, we are not talking about a shortage of "a few sleeves" here. This isnt my local Starbucks corner store. This is WDW and I could accept your guess if this shortage was maybe a few days, but the brown napkins have been gone now for over a month (I dont feel like checking to see he exactly how long, maybe even longer). Whatever it may be, they are too cheap to order enough, too cheap to have their own back up supply as other OP suggested, or just too cheap to print anything at all anymore and that is why they are phasing out printed cups and napkins. You shall see the plates will be next to go!
 

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
And maybe if those few extra napkins were not used, that cost would be factored out.
Yeah, and gas prices will one day be under $3 again (insert fart noise). Once any company raises prices and we tolerate it for a prolonged period they won't lower them again. They will only make up stories as to what they're doing to keep costs from going up again.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Entitlement? I suggest the cost of a few extra napkins is already factored into the price of my Cosmic Ray's $9.19 cheeseburger & fries and $2.89 coke. Just like the embossed napkins from McDonald's are factored into the price of my dollar menu McDouble and Sweet Tea. (Sorry, I don't know the price of McDonald's fries.)

Absolutely true. There is a difference, however! Factoring in the cost of something is, of course, going to happen. The higher the "off the top" usage the higher the factor. What you are saying is the embodiment of entitlement. "Hey, I paid $9.19 for that cheeseburger...I'll take as many napkins as I want. I paid for them, they owe me."

I, of course, cannot prove it as I don't have the statistics to back it up, only my gut feeling, but, I think that we are starting to lose those little extras because we, as a group, have over stepped the boundaries of our rights to everything we see. I sighted it before...the loss of towels animals, because we became entitled to have them and complained violently when we didn't. Solution..stop doing them altogether and no one will expect any. Napkins...I only need three but look at those cute little Disney emblems on them. I have an idea, every time we get something from the food service area, let's take a whole handful of them, take them home as souvenirs, and then whenever we need a "free" Disney fix, we can just break them out. Disney's answer...stop making them collectables and just provide what is needed in conjunction with their original purpose.

I firmly believe that the advent of entitlement coupled with the massive world of the internet that will inform everyone of things that previously they didn't know existed, is a major cause for the loss of some of those little things. It isn't the cost factor as much as it is the hassle factor involved with keeping everyone happy in the me, me, me world we live in. I think the loss of the paintbrushes on TS Island is yet another example of a nice idea beaten to death by entitlement.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Absolutely true. There is a difference, however! Factoring in the cost of something is, of course, going to happen. The higher the "off the top" usage the higher the factor. What you are saying is the embodiment of entitlement. "Hey, I paid $9.19 for that cheeseburger...I'll take as many napkins as I want. I paid for them, they owe me."

I, of course, cannot prove it as I don't have the statistics to back it up, only my gut feeling, but, I think that we are starting to lose those little extras because we, as a group, have over stepped the boundaries of our rights to everything we see. I sighted it before...the loss of towels animals, because we became entitled to have them and complained violently when we didn't. Solution..stop doing them altogether and no one will expect any. Napkins...I only need three but look at those cute little Disney emblems on them. I have an idea, every time we get something from the food service area, let's take a whole handful of them, take them home as souvenirs, and then whenever we need a "free" Disney fix, we can just break them out. Disney's answer...stop making them collectables and just provide what is needed in conjunction with their original purpose.

I firmly believe that the advent of entitlement coupled with the massive world of the internet that will inform everyone of things that previously they didn't know existed, is a major cause for the loss of some of those little things. It isn't the cost factor as much as it is the hassle factor involved with keeping everyone happy in the me, me, me world we live in. I think the loss of the paintbrushes on TS Island is yet another example of a nice idea beaten to death by entitlement.
Thank you for the well thought out post. What you suggest is a reasonable analysis of the situation. However, let me counter with:
  1. What you suggest is extremely anti customer. "Our customers want something so let's give them less of it or, better yet, take it away completely."
  2. Before the recent administration, corporate Disney seemed to understand all those little extra things (which cumulatively cost Disney millions annually) was the price of doing business. "Yes, people take extra napkins or insist on towel animals but these little things are what distinguishes us from our competition and makes our customers happy, meaning they are more likely to return and spend even more money at our resort rather than visit other vacation destinations." Perhaps this change in attitude is one of the reasons WDW attendance has slightly declined while simultaneously exploding at the competition?
  3. McDonald's (or any one of many other fast food chains) supplies stacks of embossed napkins for about half the price of a WDW quick service meal. WDW has several cost factors in its favor. They already own the land, have an entire infrastructure established, and only a few locations world-wide to distribute to. WDW is collecting additional income on ticket sales, lodging, parking (for offsite guests), and merchandise. Despite WDW having numerous financial advantages, other quick service restaurants still manage to provide food at considerably lower cost than WDW.
  4. The concept of "entitlement" only applies when someone demands something for nothing. People who visit WDW pay for tickets, food, lodging, merchandise, etc. It's hardly free. What we are asking for is simply the same level of service WDW used to provide for its first 30 years.
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
You know, if WDW comes out with new printed napkins and cups in mid-september...I really hope everyone who's screamed "the sky is falling, kill the big bad weatherman!" in this thread, eat a big dish of crow served up by wdw71fan.

This is ridiculous. If you want to claim a decline by degrees, fine. There's an argument to be made with respect to some animatronics falling into disrepair, or reduction of operating hours or allowing cast members to grow skanky beards....but napkins and plates? seriously? Don't some of you realize just how ridiculously idiotic the argument is?

I can see if they just slapped hamburgers on your palm and said "sorry, we're out of plates, we need to pay for Iger's $53M salary somewhere"...but you're still getting your burgers on plates. you're still getting napkins.

I really think so many of you guys are so desperate to identify new ways wdw is supposedly screwing the guest, that you see red whenever something changes (irrespective of whether it's a positive, negative or neutral change)...not whenever there's an appreciable decline in services. A change in the plates and napkins doesn't fall into that category, no matter how much you lie and say your kids collect the plates and napkins and take them home.

sheese!
 

rob0519

Well-Known Member
Absolutely true. There is a difference, however! Factoring in the cost of something is, of course, going to happen. The higher the "off the top" usage the higher the factor. What you are saying is the embodiment of entitlement. "Hey, I paid $9.19 for that cheeseburger...I'll take as many napkins as I want. I paid for them, they owe me."

I, of course, cannot prove it as I don't have the statistics to back it up, only my gut feeling, but, I think that we are starting to lose those little extras because we, as a group, have over stepped the boundaries of our rights to everything we see. I sighted it before...the loss of towels animals, because we became entitled to have them and complained violently when we didn't. Solution..stop doing them altogether and no one will expect any. Napkins...I only need three but look at those cute little Disney emblems on them. I have an idea, every time we get something from the food service area, let's take a whole handful of them, take them home as souvenirs, and then whenever we need a "free" Disney fix, we can just break them out. Disney's answer...stop making them collectables and just provide what is needed in conjunction with their original purpose.

I firmly believe that the advent of entitlement coupled with the massive world of the internet that will inform everyone of things that previously they didn't know existed, is a major cause for the loss of some of those little things. It isn't the cost factor as much as it is the hassle factor involved with keeping everyone happy in the me, me, me world we live in. I think the loss of the paintbrushes on TS Island is yet another example of a nice idea beaten to death by entitlement.

I agree, the sense of entitlement is astounding. I haven't seen it in this tread, but there are people that make a "free salad" from the condiment bar at Cosmic Rays and somehow feel that is not theft.

My family and I like all the little touches that made WDW special, but we don't take a few dozen extra napkins on each trip as souvenirs. While my children had seen the towel animals left in the windows at CBR, they never cried about not getting one nor did we complain about it. I admit, we do take home any additional toiletries and I'm sure we have a Mickey coaster from our first stay at the CR in a scrapbook, but there are so many inexpensive items you can buy to deal with your Disney Fix at home that will last longer than a few paper napkins and cups.

I could be wrong, but I agree Bob Iger had no hand in the cups and napkins decisions. Senior management sets strategic and financial directions and those goals roll downhill from one level to the next with each level getting more pressure to achieve those goals. At some lower level when you're looking to cut costs, you go for the low hanging fruit; ie: napkins, cups, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, etc.

I can guarantee you, my CEO has no idea what I need to do in order to cut a million dollars or more out of a project and unless it's illegal, against government regulations or will harm the company's customers or reputation in any way nor does he care as long as the goal is met.

In many other businesses, particularly those that do not deal with the public, this would be totally acceptable. Unfortunately, when the company was once the standard bearer for excellence it will be noticed and rallied against by the more knowledgeable customers.

In an earlier response someone questioned whether this whole argument was a generational issue and maybe that person has a valid point. We have become a society of disposable products. TVs, cell phones, computer hardware, kitchen appliances, ect. are no longer repaired. Simply thrown them out and get a new one. So I can see where that mentality can lead to napkin is just a napkin. Use it and throw it away.

As I've said before we will continue to go the WDW until they price us out, which may be coming up faster than I had hoped and while we are disappointed at the idea of non Disney branded cups and napkins, that will not be the determining factor in whether or not or how often we return.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the well thought out post. What you suggest is a reasonable analysis of the situation. However, let me counter with:
  1. What you suggest is extremely anti customer. "Our customers want something so let's give them less of it or, better yet, take it away completely."
  2. Before the recent administration, corporate Disney seemed to understand all those little extra things (which cumulatively cost Disney millions annually) was the price of doing business. "Yes, people take extra napkins or insist on towel animals but these little things are what distinguishes us from our competition and makes our customers happy, meaning they are more likely to return and spend even more money at our resort rather than visit other vacation destinations." Perhaps this change in attitude is one of the reasons WDW attendance has slightly declined while simultaneously exploding at the competition?
  3. McDonald's (or any one of many other fast food chains) supplies stacks of embossed napkins for about half the price of a WDW quick service meal. WDW has several cost factors in its favor. They already own the land, have an entire infrastructure established, and only a few locations world-wide to distribute to. WDW is collecting additional income on ticket sales, lodging, parking (for offsite guests), and merchandise. Despite WDW having numerous financial advantages, other quick service restaurants still manage to provide food at considerably lower cost than WDW.
  4. The concept of "entitlement" only applies when someone demands something for nothing. People who visit WDW pay for tickets, food, lodging, merchandise, etc. It's hardly free. What we are asking for is simply the same level of service WDW used to provide for its first 30 years.

Just a brief response, as I see it...

Anti-customer? Yes, I suppose that to some degree that is true. However, when anything is carried to extremes the opposite starts to happen. Towel animals..once was a positive, pixie dust "extra". Not listed in the criteria that made up the cost of your stay...just an extra. When the scale turns and there are more unhappy people, because they didn't get it, then happy people that did, it stops being a positive thing for Disney to provide. It is hurting more than it helps.

Then we have the cost factor...I think that what we fail to see is the magnitude of business that Disney produces. Thousands and thousands of people everyday. We are quick to see the mind numbing numbers used when talking about Igor's bonus, but we don't even give a second thought to the magnitude of cost that this place experiences. If the cost of a single napkin is a half a cent and you figured that they must go through a million of those per day it would equal around $5000.00 per day X 365 days = $1,825,000.00 per year. If you could cut the cost in half by eliminating a little logo printed on it...wouldn't that be considered being fiscally responsible for a disposable item? Yes, it is something that once was offered, but we don't live in the same world of Walt's time.

And if they were able to maintain the "same level of service of 30 years" I'm sure they would but back then it was random and controllable, now everyone wants the same thing for themselves and aren't hesitant to be a royal pain if they don't get exactly the same thing. It is no longer magic...it's required, but not necessarily needed to have a good overall experience, in reality. The problem is not those that understand the way it was and why, it's those that cannot allow anyone anything that they don't have that ruin it for all.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
And if they were able to maintain the "same level of service of 30 years" I'm sure they would but back then it was random and controllable, now everyone wants the same thing for themselves and aren't hesitant to be a royal pain if they don't get exactly the same thing. It is no longer magic...it's required, but not necessarily needed to have a good overall experience, in reality. The problem is not those that understand the way it was and why, it's those that cannot allow anyone anything that they don't have that ruin it for all.
This is perhaps where we disagree the most. As I previously posted, a day at WDW now costs more than double (adjusted for inflation) what it did in 1983. Every year, more and more potential WDW guests are being priced out of the market while revenue & profits continue to climb. Where is all this extra money going?

Walt's goal was to exceed customer expectations, to set the bar high, to always "plus" the experience. Today's Disney leadership seems to think meeting customer expections (expectations corporate Disney itself set) is too difficult so don't even try.

With corporate Disney now charging more than twice what they used to for a day at WDW, I think guests have a reasonable expectation that WDW should provide more, not less.

Just an opinion. I accept that some will never agree.
 

aka_emilicious

Well-Known Member
This is probably a far fetched idea, but could this be an issue on the distributors side? Perhaps Coke had an issue with shipping/printing Disney's custom cups and sent these as a substitute until they can complete the order. I remember a while back the parks had an issue with Coke shipping and there was a shortage of bottled products in the parks.

I realize the reality is more than likely cost cutting, but thought I'd offer an alternative idea as well
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
This is perhaps where we disagree the most. As I previously posted, a day at WDW now costs more than double (adjusted for inflation) what it did in 1983. Every year, more and more potential WDW guests are being priced out of the market while revenue & profits continue to climb. Where is all this extra money going?

Walt's goal was to exceed customer expectations, to set the bar high, to always "plus" the experience. Today's Disney leadership seems to think meeting customer expections (expectations corporate Disney itself set) is too difficult so don't even try.

With corporate Disney now charging more than twice what they used to for a day at WDW, I think guests have a reasonable expectation that WDW should provide more, not less.

Just an opinion. I accept that some will never agree.

As my posts are my opinion as well. It's just a good discussion. Nothing wrong with that.:)
 
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