FastPass+’s Possible Impact on Standby Lines

[ParentsOf4]

Sorry this has just more crazy by the minute. If it is going to be one per day? and they still have the current system why would anybody want to switch? Yes, I know I am thinking like a experienced park goer but even the "once in a lifetime will quickly realize they have made a mistake. PO4you mentioned that we will be at a disadvantage? I think we will if you want to get the special M&G or fireworks spot but if you just want to do rides....stay with the old system and get your 5-6 FP's a day.

Now IMO I dont think DIsney is going to allow it. I think that unless everyone participates in NG it will defeat the purpose of it in the first place. If everyone dosnt participate how will the data collected be counted on as accurate? I dont think there will be a "opt-out" option.

I am sure it will be more then 1 per day....but 5-6 is better then 3-4....right?

Eventually, FP will be completely eliminated. The exact timing has not been announced. However, initial FP+ testing is complete and the Boardwalk Inn will be the first resort experimenting with FP+. My guess is that FP will no longer be available in about a year.

The latest statement from Disney is that guests will receive 3 FP+ per day. I expect this to evolve over time. It was a misunderstanding by an earlier poster that suggested it would be only 1 FP+ per day.

Experienced WDW guests will not be at a disadvantage. However, they will lose the considerable advantage they have today with FP. They know and use the existing FP system very well while the less experienced are intimidated by it and use it considerably less.

So far, I see three advantages that someone who fully understands FP+ will have:

1. Make FP+ selections based on the line lengths of the attractions you intend to experience, not based on which attractions you like the most. HM might be your favorite attraction but, chances are, Peter Pan will continue to have longer lines. If given a choice between the two, go with Peter Pan. We still need to see what happens to HM's Standby line once FP+ is fully operational to see if this will remain true.
2. Make FP+ selections based on the busiest time of day that you intend to be at the parks, typically afternoon to early evening.
3. If you intend to park hop, go to the first park in the morning without FP+, using FP+ instead at the second park in the afternoon or early evening. Remember, Disney has announced that FP+ can only be used at one park per day so take advantage of what should remain relatively shorter lines in the morning plus FP+'s ability to allow you to book experiences much later in the day at a different park.

The above suggestions are based on how I think FP+ will work. Let's see what it's really like once fully deployed.

 

[WED99]

The way I am looking at it is that when I go to WDW during the busy season, I can be guaranteed before I even arrive that I will be able to ride 4 of my favourite attractions (as long as I book early enough) without having to run around the park.

Am I missing something here?

 

[ParentsOf4]

The way I am looking at it is that when I go to WDW during the busy season, I can be guaranteed before I even arrive that I will be able to ride 4 of my favourite attractions (as long as I book early enough) without having to run around the park.

Am I missing something here?

At WDW, demand for popular attractions exceeds supply. At Epcot, DHS, and DAK in particular, it's unlikely you'll receive 3 "good" FP+. You might, for example, end up with FP+ for RnRC, Indiana Jones, and LMA. The last two are superfluous.

Having crunched the numbers, I think you'll have a better chance at MK but, even then, you are unlikely to end up with 3 "good" FP+, maybe 2 good FP+ and 1 "OK" FP+.

There's also no way of being sure you'll get any of them for the times you want. Some people will end up with sets of FP+ beginning at 9 AM while others will end up with sets ending at 11 PM.

Unless Disney has plans to improve its distribution system, booking FP+ experiences could become like booking ADRs. People call in at the 180-day mark and still don't get the ADRs they want, especially during holidays.

 

[stlphil]

Eventually, FP will be completely eliminated. The exact timing has not been announced. However, initial FP+ testing is complete and the Boardwalk Inn will be the first resort experimenting with FP+. My guess is that FP will no longer be available in about a year.

The latest statement from Disney is that guests will receive 3 FP+ per day. I expect this to evolve over time. It was a misunderstanding by an earlier poster that suggested it would be only 1 FP+ per day.

Experienced WDW guests will not be at a disadvantage. However, they will lose the considerable advantage they have today with FP. They know and use the existing FP system very well while the less experienced are intimidated by it and use it considerably less.

So far, I see three advantages that someone who fully understands FP+ will have:

1. Make FP+ selections based on the line lengths of the attractions you intend to experience, not based on which attractions you like the most. HM might be your favorite attraction but, chances are, Peter Pan will continue to have longer lines. If given a choice between the two, go with Peter Pan. We still need to see what happens to HM's Standby line once FP+ is fully operational to see if this will remain true.
2. Make FP+ selections based on the busiest time of day that you intend to be at the parks, typically afternoon to early evening.
3. If you intend to park hop, go to the first park in the morning without FP+ and make your FP+ selections for the second park in the afternoon or early evening. Remember, Disney has announced that FP+ can only be used at one park per day so take advantage of what should remain relatively shorter lines in the morning.

The above suggestions are based on how I think FP+ will work. Let's see what it's really like once fully deployed.

While I think this summarizes the situation nicely for rides, for me there is a corollary to point 1. I'm feeling that reserved prime viewing spots for parades/fireworks may be the best (only?) major positive of FP+, at least for my style of visits. As such, even more important than using line length as the deciding factor for which FP to get, I'm guessing that there will be at most a few hundred of these prime viewing spots available as opposed to the many thousands of slots available for rides. This makes them much more valuable and important to get if these shows are of interest to you, and I think they are for most people. I have been trampled by the mob jostling for last-minute spots too many times.

Also, as I've mentioned before, reserving spots for once (or twice) a day major scheduled events is less contrary to spontaneity than ride reservations.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I remember in the days before Fastpass waiting in a line for Space Mountain that extended out onto the concourse near the Peoplemover loop around the Astro Orbiter. Yet, the line moved and you were inside and riding in due time. These days, if you see the line sticking out the door, you know to get a Fastpass or stay clear because you'll be standing and standing while Fastpass is let in.

 

[WED99]

At WDW, demand for popular attractions exceeds supply. At Epcot, DHS, and DAK in particular, it's unlikely you'll receive 3 "good" FP+. You might, for example, end up with FP+ for RnRC, Indiana Jones, and LMA. The last two are superfluous.

Having crunched the numbers, I think you'll have a better chance at MK but, even then, you are unlikely to end up with 3 "good" FP+, maybe 2 good FP+ and 1 "OK" FP+.

There's also no way of being sure you'll get any of them for the times you want. Some people will end up with sets of FP+ beginning at 9 AM while others will end up with sets ending at 11 PM.

Unless Disney has plans to improve its distribution system, booking FP+ experiences could become like booking ADRs. People call in at the 180-day mark and still don't get the ADRs they want, especially during holidays.

So it'll choose them for me?

 

[ParentsOf4]

So it'll choose them for me?

You will be presented with a set of options and asked to choose among groups of FP+ experiences. Most options will be traditional rides and shows. Some will be reserved viewing spots or character meet & greets.

During testing, people were presented with mostly good options. Looking at MK's full attraction capacity, I suspect that will continue to happen for onsite guests even after everyone's converted over to the new system. However, contemplate the numbers. MK averages 46,600 guests per day. Multiply that by 3 (3 FP+ per person): 139,800. That's how many FP+ experiences are needed on just an average day. On the busiest days, attendance is double that.

Now consider ride capacity. An attraction like Peter Pan's Flight probably handles around 15,000 guests per average day, with an estimated 8,000-9,000 FP distributed. Think about 46,000 guests with only 8,000 FP+ for Peter Pan. A lot of people will not be able to get FP+ for Peter Pan.

At the MK, it's not too bad. There's a lot more than Peter Pan. So, maybe you'll be able to get a FP+ for Winnie the Pooh. Or Space Mountain. Or Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. Or Space Mountain. The list is long. MK has a lot of attractions so you should be able to get something, just not necessarily your first choices.

It's probably going to be tighter at the other 3 theme parks since they have considerably fewer "good" attractions.

 

[SirLink]

Sorry for hijacking @ParentsOf4 however I just realised something kinda insidious but for the system of reserving to work...you'll have to give the heights of the every guest in your party won't cha' otherwise the cost of dealing with height restrictions and having to send them to guest services to fix the inventory would be a pain...

 

[George]

Yes. I am one of those who like FP but the more I think about it, the more I wonder if WDW would be better with no FP/FP+ line.

It's not going to happen though. It appears TDO has big plans to use FP+ as a draw to keep guests onsite and to reduce opex by reducing or eliminating EMH and the "Free Dining" promotion. As I've posted elsewhere, from TDO's perspective, FP+ is essentially free while EMH and "Free Dining" are both expensive.

I'm real old school. No FP and sit down dining ressies the day of. You know, the day when in the afternoon you may have an inkling of what your group will be in the mood for with respect to dinner. Crazy thoughts I know.

 

[Tip Top Club]

Sorry for hijacking @ParentsOf4 however I just realised something kinda insidious but for the system of reserving to work...you'll have to give the heights of the every guest in your party won't cha' otherwise the cost of dealing with height restrictions and having to send them to guest services to fix the inventory would be a pain...

You can change your inventory at several places in each park, not just guest services.

 

[SirLink]

You can change your inventory at several places in each park, not just guest services.

The inventory I'm talking about are the guests...that is the way the management sees us after all!

 

[muteki]

The way I am looking at it is that when I go to WDW during the busy season, I can be guaranteed before I even arrive that I will be able to ride 4 of my favourite attractions (as long as I book early enough) without having to run around the park.

Am I missing something here?

Depends on how they bracket them up. They are not going to let your 4 FPs for the day (assuming it is 4...) be Space Mountain, BTMRR, Splash Mountain, and Haunted Mansion. Based off the reservation systems used during the previous test periods, they will put most of the big E-tickets in one bracket, of which you can only choose 1 for the day. Your remaining FPs can be picked from other brackets, but they are going to be lesser D~A - ticket stuff and shows. This is all assuming that there is any availability.

Until we know the final brackets (assuming they are still planning to do that, I almost think they have to) we cant know for sure, but I wouldn't be thinking you are going get FP's for your 4 favourite rides. I would say maybe 1 or 2 for your favorites, then 2 or 3 you didn't want/don't need. All those rides that didn't have FP before that will have FP+ now will be used to pad the brackets that don't have E-tickets.

 

[the-reason14]

Depends on how they bracket them up. They are not going to let your 4 FPs for the day (assuming it is 4...) be Space Mountain, BTMRR, Splash Mountain, and Haunted Mansion. Based off the reservation systems used during the previous test periods, they will put most of the big E-tickets in one bracket, of which you can only choose 1 for the day. Your remaining FPs can be picked from other brackets, but they are going to be lesser D~A - ticket stuff and shows. This is all assuming that there is any availability.

Until we know the final brackets (assuming they are still planning to do that, I almost think they have to) we cant know for sure, but I wouldn't be thinking you are going get FP's for your 4 favourite rides. I would say maybe 1 or 2 for your favorites, then 2 or 3 you didn't want/don't need. All those rides that didn't have FP before that will have FP+ now will be used to pad the brackets that don't have E-tickets.

And this is why this whole thing is stupid to me. I can tolerate the idea of not being able to reap the full benefits of this system by being stubborn and not booking in advance and getting to my favorite rides just to see the fastpasses are sold out. But what I have a problem with is participating in this new scheme only to not be able to reap the full benefits because they want to put restrictions on which rides I can book fastpasses for. The old way before they enforced the 1 hour time window, worked perfectly for me in that I can grab fastpasses for rides that you know, I actually want to ride, and not steal them from lesser attractions I could careless about. If I would participate in this new system, I'd want to be able to have 4 or 5 space mt. fastpasses waiting for me on my little magical wristband, 2 for splash, a few for tsm for when I hop over to mgm later and so on. I don't want any for rides like pirates or small world, rides that didn't need any before and definitely don't need any now. For seasoned visitors like myself, this new system offers no real incentive of participating or wanting to waste time learning or even bother going to learn just to have to readjust the way you've vacationed for years, to book times for the same rides a lot of which are in the worse condition they've ever been in. Maybe years from now when they actually have a few new e tickets to go along with this new way of vacationing then I'll take the time to readjust and learn it, but until then I'm comfy observing and possibly going to Disneyland.

 

[muteki]

Yes, by doing this they are creating artificial limits on what FPs you can get, instead of letting you choose what you want.

The system is purposely designed to not let you get what you want.

Our typical day involves getting FPs for BTMRR in the morning, then getting ones for Space Mountain in the afternoon, where I will ride twice because my better half 9/10 times doesn't ride it. With the new system, not only am probably not going to be able to get FPs for both, even if I do I will likely not be able to use her SM FP to ride twice. Which basically means I would always choose BTMRR over SM because it would be a waste to only use one, which basically means I am never riding Space Mountain with a FP ever again.

Really though, if they opened it up so that you could have any 4 you want...then all the E tickets would be gone in a day 3 months out and all you would be left with FPs for Dumbo and the Speedway.

 

[disneyeater]

If you intend to park hop, go to the first park in the morning without FP+ and make your FP+ selections for the second park in the afternoon or early evening. Remember, Disney has announced that FP+ can only be used at one park per day so take advantage of what should remain relatively shorter lines in the morning.

This, to me, is one good thing about the new system. If I can FP+ Soarin' in the evening one day and Test Track in the evening another, maybe I just hit Epcot at night after visiting AK or spending a morning at HS.

 

[disneyeater]

Thinking about this a little more....FP+ may affect me somewhat negatively especially if they require the wristbands.

I have one daughter who loves to go on RnRc and one who will not go on it. My wife is not too fond of it either so she takes the one daughter off to do other things while I ride with the daughter who loves it. We will typically get 4 FP's for it, wait for the return time, use the first 2, get back in line and use the other 2.

My guess is I won't be able to do this with the wristbands as they will probably check both at the beginning of the queue and at the meet point. If we are allowed to opt out of the wristbands and use our KTTW cards, I assume I could still get 2 rides in - unless the names are printed on the cards and the CM would look at my card and know I was not <wife's name>.

Even with the card, the RFID may pop up your wife's name on the screen that the CM can see.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes, by doing this they are creating artificial limits on what FPs you can get, instead of letting you choose what you want.

The system is purposely designed to not let you get what you want.

Our typical day involves getting FPs for BTMRR in the morning, then getting ones for Space Mountain in the afternoon, where I will ride twice because my better half 9/10 times doesn't ride it. With the new system, not only am probably not going to be able to get FPs for both, even if I do I will likely not be able to use her SM FP to ride twice. Which basically means I would always choose BTMRR over SM because it would be a waste to only use one, which basically means I am never riding Space Mountain with a FP ever again.

Really though, if they opened it up so that you could have any 4 you want...then all the E tickets would be gone in a day 3 months out and all you would be left with FPs for Dumbo and the Speedway.

My take on availability:
This will be just like ADRs. If you go in September, no problem getting what you want. If you go Christmas week, good luck. Most times of year if you go on at the 60 day window you will probably get what you want. Of course this is just speculation on my part but figure that not everyone will plan that far out, plus not everyone values everything the same. Parades, meet and greets and less crowded rides like POC and HM will get booked over the mountains. One exception will be DHS. Toy Story will be the Cindys Royal Table of FP+. You may need to go on at the 60 day window to get it.

 

[George]

Even with the card, the RFID may pop up your wife's name on the screen that the CM can see.

I knew this was all a racket! CM's are going to be hitting on everyone's wives left and right. What a mess. :lookaroun

 

[George]

In your scenario, Dumbo and Speedway FP+ would be gone too but I'm sure you'd still be able to get a FP+ for Stitch's Great Escape!

As has been pointed out many times, people who don't know what the "headliners" are are really in trouble. Disney sure isn't going to have a blurb on the app that mentions most people find SGE to be awful.

 

[muteki]

In your scenario, Dumbo and Speedway FP+ would be gone too but I'm sure you'd still be able to get a FP+ for Stitch's Great Escape!

<insert your least preferred FP here>

As has been pointed out many times, people who don't know what the "headliners" are are really in trouble. Disney sure isn't going to have a blurb on the app that mentions most people find SGE to be awful.

No, because they want the uninformed to think that "oh that looks interesting" or "hey it's better than the tikiroom", when SGE is the only thing left for them to pick.