FastPass+’s Possible Impact on Standby Lines

[ginnymack]

I think the balance is that guests will only be able to use 1 FP+ per day. Plus, with FP+ there are more FP attractions, including rides, shows, fireworks viewing areas and quick service restaurants. As I have read more of the fine print, I am much more comfortable with the idea than I was!

Edited to add- I think the 3-4 number being tossed around is per vacation...not per day. The "rules" as currently published say 1 per day.

 

[thehowiet]

The possible impact on standby lines may also pose new challenges to those of us who park hop. Typically I usually go to one park in the morning, head back to my resort to chill by the pool, then head to a different park at night. Since you can only use FP+ at one park per day, we will need to decide whether we use all of our allotted FPs for the day at the park we go to in the morning or all of our FPs at the park we go to at night.

I have to wonder if this will discourage people from park hopping. In my case, I would probably try to schedule all of my FPs for the park I go to at night with the hope that I can get all evening times for the second park I go to that day and just use the standby line in the first park I go to that day in the morning. In this case, I would be hoping that the standby lines are still somewhat manageable in the early morning, and therefore using my FPs for the evening park where the standby lines would most likely be longer...provided I can get all evening FP+ reservations at the second park I go to that day.

If you could split your FPs for the day across multiple parks I would find the system way more convenient.

Also, if you can make your dining reservations 180 days out and your FP+ reservations 60 days out as someone mentioned that could cause some potential issues. If you can't get the FPs you want to match your dining reservations that were made 120 days earlier, that could really throw a wrench into your plans and be very frustrating since it would be much more difficult to change your dining plans at that point. You would pretty much just have to take whatever FPs you could get and stand in long lines for the attractions you really wanted to experience but couldn't get FPs for, or cancel that Le Cellier reservation you woke up at the crack of dawn to make 180 days before your vacation.

With the current system, I pretty much have control over which attractions I get FP for, even if that means having to wake up early. With FP+, it seems that Disney has all the control.

 

[Tip Top Club]

I would be surprised if the endgame is only being able to use FP+ at one park per day.

 

[thehowiet]

I would be surprised if the endgame is only being able to use FP+ at one park per day.

I would be as well and am hoping that the policy of only being able to use FP+ at one park per day will change eventually. If not, it would probably make me reconsider adding the park hopper option to my tickets.

 

[ginnymack]

Good point tip top, but I would not be surprised if it remains 1 per day. Most families I work with are reluctant to schedule dining reservations because they do not want to feel over scheduled. Pre planning even just 1 FP can make people feel like they have a "win", without feeling terribly over scheduled... Which has been the primary criticism. The cynical side of me feels like the guest is being " thrown a bone" in exchange for Disney being able to play big brother...from monitoring traffic in the park to ENDLESS direct marketing opportunities. Now everybody isn't slaking about FP...and not the "power" behind the band.

 

[ginnymack]

Disney would not want to discourage the purchase of park hopper, for sure!

 

[thehowiet]

I'm also really curious as to how all of this will impact my June trip and where they will be at in the testing process, or if the system will basically be fully rolled out by then.

 

[SirLink]

Disney would not want to discourage the purchase of park hopper, for sure!

Unless they repackaged the ticket system for walk-ups and the US(slightly different for the UK), to be that every ticket has park hopper built in - but the addons change. E.g. Ride personalisation(yuck) is so much more per ticket per day, etc....

 

[ParentsOf4]

The possible impact on standby lines may also pose new challenges to those of us who park hop. Typically I usually go to one park in the morning, head back to my resort to chill by the pool, then head to a different park at night. Since you can only use FP+ at one park per day, we will need to decide whether we use all of our allotted FPs for the day at the park we go to in the morning or all of our FPs at the park we go to at night.

Without seeing the system in effect, it's uncertain how FP+ will affect park hopping. Without further information, my initial FP+ strategy will be to arrive at one park in the morning for opening, ride attractions there without FP+, and then hop to a second park in the afternoon using FP+ for that park's attractions.

Lines will still be shortest in the morning. A percentage of guests are on vacation and won't want to wake up early enough to be at the gate for the (typical) 9 AM opening. FP+ is not going to change their behavior.

Conversely, lines will be longest in the afternoon. That's the "best" time to have a FP+. To me, it makes sense to get FP+ for the afternoon or early evening. If I can get them, I intend to book afternoon or evening FP+ and park hop.

With the current system, I pretty much have control over which attractions I get FP for, even if that means having to wake up early. With FP+, it seems that Disney has all the control.

Yes, Disney gains absolute control with FP+. See my rant here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...-starts-to-appear.857948/page-19#post-5269107

 

[thehowiet]

Yes, Disney gains absolute control with FP+. See my rant here:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...-starts-to-appear.857948/page-19#post-5269107

I actually did see your rant, and I agree with you both here and there.

Waiting in the standby line in the morning and using my FPs for the park I hop to at night will also be my strategy if the constraint of using FP+ at only one park per day goes unchanged.

 

[compfreak311]

sorry to stumble in the conversation but i had to sign up and throw in my 2 cents

It seems to me that most of the hard core disney people like myself are the ones posting on how the new FP+ are going to be be terrible and I would have to partly agree.

The new system will make it harder to cheat the current fast pass system. I know of to many loop holes when it comes to the current FP system. A RFID validation system that either clears or rejects approaching FP line goers will help with rejecting the people who never were supose to be in the line in the first place.

I know of many people that, with the current system, will print three valid fast pass tickets lets say for Midway Mania. After your valid tickets are printed you can reinsert your park ticket to print out the non valid fastpass tickets that are on the exact same ticket paper. Every body goes and gets in line showing the person at the front of the line their valid ticket. Once in line the first person takes one valid ticket and puts it on top of two invalid tickets. This makes it look like three tickets but only the top is valid. The cast memeber collecting the tickets mid way though the line never checks and just assumes the three tickets were validated at the front of the line. This leaves you with 2 valid FP's. As long as you have 6 non valid tickets you can have three people visit a FP line 3 seperate times with little trouble.

More people do this than you think.

When you are down to one ticket and need to validate three people at the front of the FP line then you use same valid ticket to show the person at the front of the line for each person. This is easily done by passing the valid ticket to the next person where the FP line meets the exit line or SB line.

A RFID braclet or ticket will only allow users to be validated once making the new system harder cheat.

 

[Mawg]

I think someone already mentioned this but keep in mind that a portion of the FastPass+'s will not get used. There will be people that decide they can't use their reservation due to going back to the resort, longer than expected dinning reservations, poor planning and park hopping. In the past when this has happened to me I simply passed my FastPasses on to some unsuspecting stranger, FastPass+ will not allow this as you would not want to hand your park ticket off to some stranger.

I'm going with a group of 11 in June, If half the group decides they are tired and goes back to the resort it will be very hard to take their fastpasses and use them like we use to do. They need their card or bracelet to get back in the room.
But, in the end, if Disney sees the number of fastpass+'s are not getting used, they are just going to increase the distribution of these until they are happy with numbers.

 

[compfreak311]

If you ask me the new system will bascially make it eaiser for people who never knew the current FP system to book a few decent FP's while making it more difficult for people that avarge 5-6 FP's on a single day more difficult.
This gives more of a bennefit to those in wheel chairs and electric scooters. Most can enter an attraction through the exit already this is why you see some many of the damn things. This is why disney had to start giving handicap passes with the different color dots on them.

 

[compfreak311]

My brother and I would always take my parents tickets and go early to get and extra set of passes in the morning while my parents snoozed. I guess we could still use their tickets even if its a braclet. The same goes with taking other family members braclets if they want to go back to the room. Minus one to get into the room of course. I Bet it wouldn't be hard to get a spare key card to your room when you check in. This is a plus for staying off site or in the campground.

 

[tjkraz]

The FP+ situation doesn't look too good at Epcot, DHS, or DAK. Let's face it, MK has a lot of "good" attractions. Even with its much higher average attendance, MK should be able to handle FP+ demand. But what can be done at the other 3 theme parks, which have significantly fewer "good" attractions. So far, I've been unable to figure out how WDW will make FP+ work well at Epcot, DHS, and DAK.

The key at other parks will be the groupings of attractions.

Take DHS. During testing, guests were limited to one FP+ from a group that included Toy Story Mania, RNR and LMA. With average daily attendance around 25,000, TSM and RNR have more than enough capacity for each guest to ride once. Using hourly capacity of 1200 and 1800 over an average 12 hour operating day, that's 36,000 riders combined.

Then factor in:
- People getting FP+ for LMA
- FP+ which go unused
- Guests who don't use FP+

All of my reading about FP+ suggests that the advance ride reservations will be available only to guest staying at Disney resorts. Passholders (locals) will also get some allocation--I think 20 days per year has been pulled from the Terms of Service.

I see this lining up in such a way that those who are eligible to make reservations in advance will have little difficulty getting exactly what they want--as long as they secure their times before the park opens. Could be weeks in advance or as late as 8:59am from a smartphone while riding the parking lot tram.

When the gates open, day guests without Disney hotel reservations will head to the in-park computer terminals--or similarly use smartphones if they use GPS to control access--and begin to peck away at remaining availability.

On the attraction side, I think there will be plenty of capacity for resort guests to secure their ride time right up to park opening. Some time slots may fill up but overall capacity will still remain on most days. Certain experiences like Wishes or Illuminations viewing may require more planning since those are one-off events.

Overall the system will require adjustment in how guests tour. Those most immediately impacted will probably be people who get multiple FPs for the same attraction one-after-the-other. But I don't think most of the doom and gloom scenarios will play out as feared. In my humble opinion, the system's (potential) shortcomings are trumped by the greater control over ride times and the elimination of FP ticket runners.

 

[Bork Bork]

My brother and I would always take my parents tickets and go early to get and extra set of passes in the morning while my parents snoozed. I guess we could still use their tickets even if its a braclet. The same goes with taking other family members braclets if they want to go back to the room. Minus one to get into the room of course. I Bet it wouldn't be hard to get a spare key card to your room when you check in. This is a plus for staying off site or in the campground.

I didn't think what I bolded above was possible. Park tickets have to be activated at the turnstiles to be usable in the FP machines. I'm assuming the same will be in play for the bracelets.

BTW, welcome to WDWMagic!

 

[flynnibus]

The one thing that is not entirely clear -- and is a significant question -- is, once they convert entirely to FP+, whether any Fastpasses will be available "day of" in the parks

I assume you mean additional FP+ (not traditional FP in addition to your FP+ reservations). You pose a great question.. and it just shows how many permutations are out there that aren't excluded or clear from the info we have. Me personally, I don't think they would do that.. because my thought process is still they will aim for 'always can get one..' and adding constraints on what you pick, and how many you can pick, are key points to making that possible. But that's only speculation, not informed speculation

 

[goherdibg]

Think of it this way.

Today with FP, you need to arrive at the front gate before opening, walk quickly to your #1 FP attraction, leaving your family behind so you can get a decent FP return time. Then, watch your printed FP window so you can sprint over to the next FP attraction before rejoining you family to experience your first FP experience. Repeat cycle.

I prefer the current FP because, IMHO, it rewards hard work and I was raised to value hard work. However, I'm the only one in my neighborhood who still does my own yard work. Given the options of doing the "FP shuffle" or booking their FP+ experiences from their favorite electronic devices, I suspect most will prefer booking electronically.

I don't disagree with what you are saying; however, I do value "family time" over some of the things you mention.

I am one of those who pays someone else to do my yard work. My wife and I both work full time and really value the evening and weekend time we get to spend with our daughters. So, instead of spending 3 hours on Saturday or Sunday doing yard work I choose to spend it with my family.

That is the outlook I take to the World. Instead of spending hours (possibly as you describe it) gathering FP's while my family is gallivanting around the World without me, I would welcome the chance to get them early - online - so the entire time at MK we are together.

Anything that allows for more quality family time is an enhancement IMO. Even without FP's, while I don't love waiting in long lines, I take that opportunity as time spent my wife and kids.

Just my opinion....

 

[lebeau]

Once FP+ is fully operational

Great post as alwats.

I read this line in the Emporer's voice.

"Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL reserved queue system!"

 

[ParentsOf4]

FP+ will change touring strategies for many WDW guests. However, like elections and weather, it’s often difficult to predict the results. Let’s consider a couple of examples.

Since it’s no longer necessary to be at the parks for opening in order to get FP, morning crowds at the parks might decline. However, if Disney distributes 9 AM FP+ electronically, and this is the only time available, then some will select 9 AM FP+ experiences anyway, even though they originally had no intention of being at the parks at 9 AM. Both situations will happen. The question is: Which will dominate?

Taking this example one step further, word might get out that Standby lines are now much shorter in the morning because fewer people are rushing to the park. Once word gets out, others might try to arrive earlier because they’ve read lines are shorter in the morning. Of course, if enough people do this, then lines won’t be shorter in the morning. What happens next is anyone’s guess. Overall, I suspect daily attendance patterns won’t change significantly.

In my OP, I described how attractions can be thought of in terms of supply, demand, and “price” (i.e. wait time). Taking Peter Pan as an example, over the course of an average 13-hour MK day, Peter Pan should be able to accommodate over 15,000 guests. Yet average daily attendance is over 46,000. This suggests at least two-out-of-three MK guests don’t ride Peter Pan on any given day. (Some will ride Peter Pan more than once.)

Peter Pan is a popular attraction and the numbers suggest a lot of unsatisfied demand for Peter Pan. Today, there must be a lot of guests declining to pay the (for example) 50-minute wait “price” for Peter Pan. With FP+, some guests will be able to “buy” Peter Pan for a lot less (i.e. wait in line less). But if these guests get FP+ for Peter Pan, others won’t, even if they were able to get FP in the past. They’ll be forced into the Standby line. What will they do? Will they pay the higher “price”? Maybe they were so desperate to ride Peter Pan they wanted to make sure they’d be able to ride by getting a FP. Maybe Peter Pan was a borderline attraction for them and the only way they’d ride is with a FP. Who knows, we’re talking about complex human behavior. Different people have different motivations.

Predicting end results are highly speculative. Pollsters and weather forecasters often get it wrong. Both deal with complex systems that are difficult to model. This is why, in my OP, I avoided suggesting more complex crowd behavior. There are simply too many uncertainties to be sure exactly how Standby lines ultimately will be affected once all aspects come into play. The reality is that nearly every human behavior will occur. The question is: Which behaviors will dominate the FP+ system? I don’t have the answer.

What we have seen from FP is that adding FP to attractions increases their Standby lines. Adding FP+ to attractions that did not have FP should be no different.

Similarly, if Disney distributes 9 AM return times, Disney is effectively “adding” FP+ to attractions immediately after park opening, where early FP lines did not exist before. The history of FP suggests Standby lines will grow more rapidly earlier with FP+.