EPCOT 25th Gallery was CLOSED today - what's up?

[DMC-12]

Yeah, but ToN became ToD....DREAM!!!:lol:

Wheyyy la.. wheeyhhhaaayhaaay la... wheeeeeeyhaaay la.. wheeeyhayhay :lookaroun

BTW... Epcot needs a parade again, IMO. :goodnevil :lookaroun

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Wheyyy la.. wheehhhaaayhaaay la... weeeeeehaaay la.. weeehayhay :lookaroun

BTW... Epcot needs a parade again, IMO. :goodnevil :lookaroun

*sigh*

Loved the original.

AND YES...EPCOT NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS A PARADE!!!

 

[GatorGambit]

Change happens and sometimes change happens for a reason. Epcot reflects this. I guarantee you that kids today with relate more with Finding Nemo than Sea Base Alpha. Isn't that more important?

So you're saying that when The Living Seas was first built, instead of a completely original idea like Sea Base Alpha, they should have stuck characters in from Disney animated films at the time, because kids would have related better?

Let's see the movies in this particular era when TLS was built that kids would have related to: The Rescuers, The Fox and the Hound, The Black Cauldron, The Great Mouse Detective. Not exactly winners. Additionally, I'll point to HISTA to show what happens when you use IPs that are only popular during a particular time period rather than creating something more original and timeless.

If your reasoning is correct, why don't we just shove Hercules into Exepdition Everst, Mr. Incredible into Mission: Space, and have Quasimodo do a little song and dance in place of Impressions de France?

I personally prefer the original and creative ideas that were the foundation of all of the EPCOT attractions. The Imagineers could have shoved any number of Disney characters into JITA, but they came up with something new there, too. That gallery exposed that Future World has become a place for less originality and more marketing and leaning on other Disney IPs to sell a few DVDs. I think that's why the "fanboys" still hold on to that a bit.

(Of course, Little Mermaid came soon after TLS was built. However it's a tough argument to make that in 1989 that redesigning TLS with a Little Mermaid theme would have made sense with all of the "classic" EPCOT Center attractions still running strong in their prime.)

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

So you're saying that when The Living Seas was first built, instead of a completely original idea like Sea Base Alpha, they should have stuck characters in from Disney animated films at the time, because kids would have related better?

Let's see the movies in this particular era when TLS was built that kids would have related to: The Rescuers, The Fox and the Hound, The Black Cauldron, The Great Mouse Detective. Not exactly winners. Additionally, I'll point to HISTA to show what happens when you use IPs that are only popular during a particular time period rather than creating something more original and timeless.

I personally prefer the original and creative ideas that were the foundation of all of the EPCOT attractions. The Imagineers could have shoved any number of Disney characters into JITA, but they came up with something new there, too. That gallery exposed that Future World has become a place for less originality and more marketing and leaning on other Disney IPs to sell a few DVDs. I think that's why the "fanboys" still hold on to that a bit.

(Of course, Little Mermaid came soon after TLS was built. However it's a tough argument to make that in 1989 that redesigning TLS with a Little Mermaid theme would have made sense with all of the "classic" EPCOT Center attractions still running strong in their prime.)

Yep...It showed the long gone creativity of WDI.

 

[MichWolv]

*sigh*

Loved the original.

AND YES...EPCOT NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDS A PARADE!!!

How about a daytime fireworks display with Disney characters flying around on fan-powered glider-like things? Anbyody remember "Surprise in the Skies"?

Off topic now, but it seems to me that Disney has really lost a chance to make money by keeping Epcot open later. The restaurants all seem to do an incredible business, and keeping the park open until 10 seems like a no-brainer to me. Do a parade at 8 pm, and Illuminations at 10.

I am, however, obviously missing something, because I doubt Disney would miss out on the chance to make the kind of money that I think that move would make.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

How about a daytime fireworks display with Disney characters flying around on fan-powered glider-like things? Anbyody remember "Surprise in the Skies"?

Off topic now, but it seems to me that Disney has really lost a chance to make money by keeping Epcot open later. The restaurants all seem to do an incredible business, and keeping the park open until 10 seems like a no-brainer to me. Do a parade at 8 pm, and Illuminations at 10.

I am, however, obviously missing something, because I doubt Disney would miss out on the chance to make the kind of money that I think that move would make.

Awww...I never got to see SitS.

Honestly, though, that is one of the fundamental problems with EPCOT:9 PM is TOO EARLY.:fork:

 

[MichWolv]

So you're saying that when The Living Seas was first built, instead of a completely original idea like Sea Base Alpha, they should have stuck characters in from Disney animated films at the time, because kids would have related better?

Let's see the movies in this particular era when TLS was built that kids would have related to: The Rescuers, The Fox and the Hound, The Black Cauldron, The Great Mouse Detective. Not exactly winners. Additionally, I'll point to HISTA to show what happens when you use IPs that are only popular during a particular time period rather than creating something more original and timeless.

If your reasoning is correct, why don't we just shove Hercules into Exepdition Everst, Mr. Incredible into Mission: Space, and have Quasimodo do a little song and dance in place of Impressions de France?

I personally prefer the original and creative ideas that were the foundation of all of the EPCOT attractions. The Imagineers could have shoved any number of Disney characters into JITA, but they came up with something new there, too. That gallery exposed that Future World has become a place for less originality and more marketing and leaning on other Disney IPs to sell a few DVDs. I think that's why the "fanboys" still hold on to that a bit.

(Of course, Little Mermaid came soon after TLS was built. However it's a tough argument to make that in 1989 that redesigning TLS with a Little Mermaid theme would have made sense with all of the "classic" EPCOT Center attractions still running strong in their prime.)

I agree with most of this, although I do think that adding characters to Epcot can/could be done in a way that is consistent with the original feel of the park. When it opened, there were literally no characters...anywhere. But adding character-greeting opportunities in World Showcase where the characters wear native-style clothing made all the sense in the world. And having Aladdin in Morocco, Brother Bear in Canada, Marry Poppins in the UK, etc., is practically perfect. :animwink: Not so much the "Epcot Character Connection" in Future World, although my son loves it.

And the Living Seas with Nemo COULD have been done a way completely consistent with the original feel if the characters had just been used to host the pavilion. Imagine if the preshow movie had stayed and been changed to be a "lecture" from Mr. Ray welcoming all the new kids to school. Nemo could tell us about his first day a year before and then the students could tell us some of what they have learned. Maybe they'd have heard about a deluge. Then put us on ride vehicles that look like sting-ray, so that we're part of the class. The narration on the ride could be educational instead of retelling the Nemo plot. And then exit the ride into Seabase Alpha, where we have gone on our field trip from school.

Could've worked out very well, but it was instead executed differently. I like Turtle Talk, and I like the ride (much better when the anglerfish is working), but the point of the pavilion was unnecessarily changed.

So it's not the addition of characters that troubles me, but the way it has sometimes been done.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I agree with most of this, although I do think that adding characters to Epcot can/could be done in a way that is consistent with the original feel of the park. When it opened, there were literally no characters...anywhere. But adding character-greeting opportunities in World Showcase where the characters wear native-style clothing made all the sense in the world. And having Aladdin in Morocco, Brother Bear in Canada, Marry Poppins in the UK, etc., is practically perfect. :animwink: Not so much the "Epcot Character Connection" in Future World, although my son loves it.

And the Living Seas with Nemo COULD have been done a way completely consistent with the original feel if the characters had just been used to host the pavilion. Imagine if the preshow movie had stayed and been changed to be a "lecture" from Mr. Ray welcoming all the new kids to school. Nemo could tell us about his first day a year before and then the students could tell us some of what they have learned. Maybe they'd have heard about a deluge. Then put us on ride vehicles that look like sting-ray, so that we're part of the class. The narration on the ride could be educational instead of retelling the Nemo plot. And then exit the ride into Seabase Alpha, where we have gone on our field trip from school.

Could've worked out very well, but it was instead executed differently. I like Turtle Talk, and I like the ride (much better when the anglerfish is working), but the point of the pavilion was unnecessarily changed.

So it's not the addition of characters that troubles me, but the way it has sometimes been done.

EXACTLY!:sohappy:

Characters should be the HOST of the Pav...Not it's main draw. I have tried time and again to present this in previous EPCOT Debates.:lol:

Well said, Scott.

 

[Hoop Raeb]

Wow! Go away from a thread for a day and look what happens.

**backs out slowly**

 

[jakeman]

I agree with most of this, although I do think that adding characters to Epcot can/could be done in a way that is consistent with the original feel of the park. When it opened, there were literally no characters...anywhere. But adding character-greeting opportunities in World Showcase where the characters wear native-style clothing made all the sense in the world. And having Aladdin in Morocco, Brother Bear in Canada, Marry Poppins in the UK, etc., is practically perfect. :animwink: Not so much the "Epcot Character Connection" in Future World, although my son loves it.

And the Living Seas with Nemo COULD have been done a way completely consistent with the original feel if the characters had just been used to host the pavilion. Imagine if the preshow movie had stayed and been changed to be a "lecture" from Mr. Ray welcoming all the new kids to school. Nemo could tell us about his first day a year before and then the students could tell us some of what they have learned. Maybe they'd have heard about a deluge. Then put us on ride vehicles that look like sting-ray, so that we're part of the class. The narration on the ride could be educational instead of retelling the Nemo plot. And then exit the ride into Seabase Alpha, where we have gone on our field trip from school.

Could've worked out very well, but it was instead executed differently. I like Turtle Talk, and I like the ride (much better when the anglerfish is working), but the point of the pavilion was unnecessarily changed.

So it's not the addition of characters that troubles me, but the way it has sometimes been done.

Then instead of complaining about a themed pavilion that conveys educational information using very popular characters, you would be complaining about how only the first half of the attraction was "Pixarized" and the second half was left to languish.

How was the point of the pavilion changed? It is supposed to educate people, primarily children, about the ocean. It seems, at least in my microism of visiting the parks, to be doing that very well.

 

[JEANYLASER]

I will miss EPCOT 25th Gallery! I will think to have what you celebration theme!

 

[GatorGambit]

I agree with most of this, although I do think that adding characters to Epcot can/could be done in a way that is consistent with the original feel of the park. When it opened, there were literally no characters...anywhere. But adding character-greeting opportunities in World Showcase where the characters wear native-style clothing made all the sense in the world. And having Aladdin in Morocco, Brother Bear in Canada, Marry Poppins in the UK, etc., is practically perfect. :animwink: Not so much the "Epcot Character Connection" in Future World, although my son loves it.

And the Living Seas with Nemo COULD have been done a way completely consistent with the original feel if the characters had just been used to host the pavilion. Imagine if the preshow movie had stayed and been changed to be a "lecture" from Mr. Ray welcoming all the new kids to school. Nemo could tell us about his first day a year before and then the students could tell us some of what they have learned. Maybe they'd have heard about a deluge. Then put us on ride vehicles that look like sting-ray, so that we're part of the class. The narration on the ride could be educational instead of retelling the Nemo plot. And then exit the ride into Seabase Alpha, where we have gone on our field trip from school.

Could've worked out very well, but it was instead executed differently. I like Turtle Talk, and I like the ride (much better when the anglerfish is working), but the point of the pavilion was unnecessarily changed.

So it's not the addition of characters that troubles me, but the way it has sometimes been done.

I agree with that. After all, it is still Disney. There's a big difference between "plussing" the attraction with characters and making the attraction revolve around them.

 

[montyz81]

Another Imagineering Idea

So here is a really cool idea. I think that Disney should build a tunnel below the ground and take scenes and artifacts from Disney rides gone by and put them on either side of the tunnel. In the middle of the tunnel would be a Chairlift/Horizons like omni mover that moves people from somewhere in Future world to somewhere near American adventure in World Showcase. It would then return picking up more passengers for movement back to Future World. The moving vehicle could be either an omnimover or a Peoplemover type vehicle system. It would be a ride/transportation method. Anyone think this is a good idea?

 

[disnyfan89]

So you're saying that when The Living Seas was first built, instead of a completely original idea like Sea Base Alpha, they should have stuck characters in from Disney animated films at the time, because kids would have related better?

Let's see the movies in this particular era when TLS was built that kids would have related to: The Rescuers, The Fox and the Hound, The Black Cauldron, The Great Mouse Detective. Not exactly winners. Additionally, I'll point to HISTA to show what happens when you use IPs that are only popular during a particular time period rather than creating something more original and timeless.

If your reasoning is correct, why don't we just shove Hercules into Exepdition Everst, Mr. Incredible into Mission: Space, and have Quasimodo do a little song and dance in place of Impressions de France?

No, I did not say that Sea Base Alpha should have been designed differently when it first opened. Back then it worked. In today's world it did not. It had very little attendance and the only interesting thing to do there was the ride and hydrolators. The ride closed and was thought to never return. The pavilion quickly lost it's main draw and appeal. It became outdated and unimportant to today's audience.

Nemo on the other hand is a relavent property that is one of Pixar's highest grossing films. Sea Base Alpha needed to be redesigned and along came a little clown fish and a sea turtle. Soon kids who would have found things of very little interest in The Living Seas could talk to a turtle and ask him questions. Soon kids where being entertained AND LEARNING! (Sounds familiar but I have no idea why?) Soon other exhibits opened featuring Nemo and his friends including a brand new ride that was far better than its predecessor. Boom suddenly a pavilion has a whole new breath of life and attracts more people than Sea Base Alpha did towards the end of its time.

As for Nemo losing it's appeal over time we all know the same happened to Cinderella, Snow White, and that little Mouse nobody has ever heard of.

Nemo was a win win because today's audience loves it and it was a relevant property that was put to good use. What does Hercules have to with EE. Nothing! What does the incredibles have to do with M:S? Nothing! What does Nemo have to do with the sea? Everything! If your going to try to make this type of argument please try not comparing apples to oranges. As for Impressions de France, everyone knows that BatB would be a much better property. :hammer:

 

[yankspy]

How about a daytime fireworks display with Disney characters flying around on fan-powered glider-like things? Anbyody remember "Surprise in the Skies"?

Off topic now, but it seems to me that Disney has really lost a chance to make money by keeping Epcot open later. The restaurants all seem to do an incredible business, and keeping the park open until 10 seems like a no-brainer to me. Do a parade at 8 pm, and Illuminations at 10.

I am, however, obviously missing something, because I doubt Disney would miss out on the chance to make the kind of money that I think that move would make.

Awww...I never got to see SitS.

Honestly, though, that is one of the fundamental problems with EPCOT:9 PM is TOO EARLY.:fork:

Now that PI has closed there seems to be a lack of evening activity. Maybe this option could be considered. However, I will admit that I have no idea what the cost is of keeping Epcot open later, etc. Perhaps someone who knows more about those details could shed some light on why it is not open later?

 

[MichWolv]

Then instead of complaining about a themed pavilion that conveys educational information using very popular characters, you would be complaining about how only the first half of the attraction was "Pixarized" and the second half was left to languish.

How was the point of the pavilion changed? It is supposed to educate people, primarily children, about the ocean. It seems, at least in my microism of visiting the parks, to be doing that very well.

Can I give you other hypothical situations and you can tell me how I would react? That would be helpful

You actually misread my message. I would've still "Pixarized" (your word, not mine) the entire attraction, just in a different way.

But as to how the pavilion has changed: I often see people going through the ride, seeing turtle talk, looking at a few exhibits, and leaving. Barely noticing the huge tank with all of the actual fish in it. Learning only what Crush told them and what Mr. Ray asked them about in the computer Q&A while waiting for Turtle Talk. The ride is not educational at all, and there is no educational preshow, so those opportunities for learning don't exist. So I perceive that the focus of the attraction has changed, and that it no longer accomplishes nearly as well the mission of teaching children about the ocean, let alone adults. It instead accomplishes a different mission...laughter, storytelling. Not a bad mission at all, just a different one.

As I've said; I like Turtle Talk and the ride, but I wish they had done it differently.

 

[jakeman]

Can I give you other hypothical situations and you can tell me how I would react? That would be helpful

You actually misread my message. I would've still "Pixarized" (your word, not mine) the entire attraction, just in a different way.

But as to how the pavilion has changed: I often see people going through the ride, seeing turtle talk, looking at a few exhibits, and leaving. Barely noticing the huge tank with all of the actual fish in it. Learning only what Crush told them and what Mr. Ray asked them about in the computer Q&A while waiting for Turtle Talk. The ride is not educational at all, and there is no educational preshow, so those opportunities for learning don't exist. So I perceive that the focus of the attraction has changed, and that it no longer accomplishes nearly as well the mission of teaching children about the ocean, let alone adults. It instead accomplishes a different mission...laughter, storytelling. Not a bad mission at all, just a different one.

As I've said; I like Turtle Talk and the ride, but I wish they had done it differently.

Perception is 9/10s of reality. I see children playing with interactive displays and looking at the fish tanks and learning along with the laughter and storytelling.

 

[MichWolv]

Perception is 9/10s of reality. I see children playing with interactive displays and looking at the fish tanks and learning along with the laughter and storytelling.

Since we have different perceptions...we have 90% different realities? Too existensial for me! :lol:

I shall try to reset my expectations on my trip in December, and see if I come away feeling different.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

No, I did not say that Sea Base Alpha should have been designed differently when it first opened. Back then it worked. In today's world it did not. It had very little attendance and the only interesting thing to do there was the ride and hydrolators. The ride closed and was thought to never return. The pavilion quickly lost it's main draw and appeal. It became outdated and unimportant to today's audience.

Nemo on the other hand is a relavent property that is one of Pixar's highest grossing films. Sea Base Alpha needed to be redesigned and along came a little clown fish and a sea turtle. Soon kids who would have found things of very little interest in The Living Seas could talk to a turtle and ask him questions. Soon kids where being entertained AND LEARNING! (Sounds familiar but I have no idea why?) Soon other exhibits opened featuring Nemo and his friends including a brand new ride that was far better than its predecessor. Boom suddenly a pavilion has a whole new breath of life and attracts more people than Sea Base Alpha did towards the end of its time.

As for Nemo losing it's appeal over time we all know the same happened to Cinderella, Snow White, and that little Mouse nobody has ever heard of.

Nemo was a win win because today's audience loves it and it was a relevant property that was put to good use. What does Hercules have to with EE. Nothing! What does the incredibles have to do with M:S? Nothing! What does Nemo have to do with the sea? Everything! If your going to try to make this type of argument please try not comparing apples to oranges. As for Impressions de France, everyone knows that BatB would be a much better property. :hammer:

Ummm...Where?

There is NOTHING educational except for one or two lines in Turtle Talk.

 

[disnyfan89]

Ummm...Where?

There is NOTHING educational except for one or two lines in Turtle Talk.

It depends on the audience and the actor. Some shows have more facts than others.