EPCOT – the park that lost its optimism

VT GAL

VT GAL

Member
Hi Evan!

Thanks we try our best! She still runs for the balloons, but I try to make her slow down a bit to take in as much as she is willing to take in along the way!
 
SirGoofy

SirGoofy

Member
I guess the thing that really bugs me about the recent Epcot threads is that everyone calls for the Imagineers' heads and claims they have no vision when they don't create something they like. But guys I know a lot of the guys that have been working on SSE, and they are really great, creative people. They were hugely handcuffed by budgets and other constraints put on them by higher ups. Don't blame the Imagineers on these rides. It's in all honesty WDW management and their inability to give the creative people the money they need.

Look at what WDI does when they get that money. Rides like E:E, TSMM, and a park like Tokyo Disney Sea. Give the guys a break, because believe me, they are doing everything they can for you.
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
VT GAL said:
Hi Evan!

Thanks we try our best! She still runs for the balloons, but I try to make her slow down a bit to take in as much as she is willing to take in along the way!
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It was a joke...Don't sweat it ,Shelley!;);):wave:
SirGoofy said:
I guess the thing that really bugs me about the recent Epcot threads is that everyone calls for the Imagineers' heads and claims they have no vision when they don't create something they like. But guys I know a lot of the guys that have been working on SSE, and they are really great, creative people. They were hugely handcuffed by budgets and other constraints put on them by higher ups. Don't blame the Imagineers on these rides. It's in all honesty WDW management and their inability to give the creative people the money they need.

Look at what WDI does when they get that money. Rides like E:E, TSMM, and a park like Tokyo Disney Sea. Give the guys a break, because believe me, they are doing everything they can for you.
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They have vision...They are just not using it to entertain/inform/inspire.:(Just entertain.:rolleyes:
 
scpergj

scpergj

Well-Known Member
EPCOT.nut said:
4 days old. I know nothing of an Imagination refurb, though. :( I just took a picture. :lol:
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VERY cool.

Interestingly, my wife and I best remember EPCOT 94, back when Horizions was open and you could play in the Image Works after JIYI. I took her for the first time in 1997, and she still remembers those two things the best. We have been many, many times since then (actually, our first trip AFTER the 97 was in 2003), but we both miss the original vision of EPCOT Center. We didn't recognize Communicore, er I mean Innoventions, as what either of us remembered (and I had been many times from 1982 to 1994, before I met her), Horizions was sorely missed, and the park was just missing something. This thread made me think about it, and the OP is right, the SPIRIT is misssing - but as another poster mentioned, this entire country is missing it. The American spirit, so bold, so forward looking, so independent, has been changing slowly into a postmodernistic dissonance, a certain coarsness, and I belive we see a reflection of that in all of the parks - but it is mostly noticed in EPCOT because of it's original vision.

I also agree, we don't want all the old stuff brought back, we just want the SPIRIT back. I also miss the great music of the original EPCOT Center (bring back Future Corps!!!! just kidding...but they need real live music!) - I mean the Jamminators? Please beat on some plastic trash cans more...that's talent!??!

That said, we did have fun at this year's Food and Wine festival!

EPCOT isn't broken...but it could sure be improved (what couldn't).
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
scpergj said:
VERY cool.

Interestingly, my wife and I best remember EPCOT 94, back when Horizions was open and you could play in the Image Works after JIYI. I took her for the first time in 1997, and she still remembers those two things the best. We have been many, many times since then (actually, our first trip AFTER the 97 was in 2003), but we both miss the original vision of EPCOT Center. We didn't recognize Communicore, er I mean Innoventions, as what either of us remembered (and I had been many times from 1982 to 1994, before I met her), Horizions was sorely missed, and the park was just missing something. This thread made me think about it, and the OP is right, the SPIRIT is misssing - but as another poster mentioned, this entire country is missing it. The American spirit, so bold, so forward looking, so independent, has been changing slowly into a postmodernistic dissonance, a certain coarsness, and I belive we see a reflection of that in all of the parks - but it is mostly noticed in EPCOT because of it's original vision.

I also agree, we don't want all the old stuff brought back, we just want the SPIRIT back. I also miss the great music of the original EPCOT Center (bring back Future Corps!!!! just kidding...but they need real live music!) - I mean the Jamminators? Please beat on some plastic trash cans more...that's talent!??!

That said, we did have fun at this year's Food and Wine festival!

EPCOT isn't broken...but it could sure be improved (what couldn't).
Click to expand...
Yet another post in a thread that proves that this "Spirit matters.":sohappy:
 
tirian

tirian

Well-Known Member
scpergj said:
This thread made me think about it, and the OP is right, the SPIRIT is misssing - but as another poster mentioned, this entire country is missing it. The American spirit, so bold, so forward looking, so independent, has been changing slowly into a postmodernistic dissonance, a certain coarsness, and I belive we see a reflection of that in all of the parks - but it is mostly noticed in EPCOT because of its original vision.
Click to expand...

Yep, our whole country is missing that spirit, and now we're looking to big government for help. :fork: The government can't even file paperwork properly. Why should we expect it to do a better job for us? :lol:

Some of the newer attractions reflect this attitude; everything is either dumbed down or thought out for us. It's as if the WDI script writers didn't have enough faith in Guests to be able to THINK on their own! (Phoenicians and ABCs...)

The reasons for this don't belong on these boards, but one thing is certain: the optimism needs to return to Future World! Maybe it will be enough to inspire future leaders (tomorrow's child...)

I also think that with its new management, Epcot is on its way to recapturing the vision it lost in the late 90s. I still love the park and don't consider it a failure at all. But I'm concerned that if the Imagineers don't have the necessary optimism, they won't be able to completely instill a renewed sense of wonder and discovery in Epcot.
 
wannab@dis

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
Epcot hasn't lost any optimism... only a few purists who live in the past. :D

Thankfully, Epcot has improved greatly over the past few years. Gone are several of the snooze-fests and in their place are attractions that actually appeal to the guests. Gone is much of the aspect of boredom that hung around the neck of Epcot for years. Thankfully, the guests mattered, and they were given what they wanted... some entertainment and fun.

Final thought... isn't it interesting that all these "Epcot Angst" threads turn out to be filled with posts by the same few posters. These issues can't even create much excitement on a board of fans... :lookaroun
 
Krack2

Krack2

Member
SirGoofy said:
I guess the thing that really bugs me about the recent Epcot threads is that everyone calls for the Imagineers' heads and claims they have no vision when they don't create something they like. But guys I know a lot of the guys that have been working on SSE, and they are really great, creative people. They were hugely handcuffed by budgets and other constraints put on them by higher ups. Don't blame the Imagineers on these rides. It's in all honesty WDW management and their inability to give the creative people the money they need.

Look at what WDI does when they get that money. Rides like E:E, TSMM, and a park like Tokyo Disney Sea. Give the guys a break, because believe me, they are doing everything they can for you.
Click to expand...

Sir Goofy,

I'm curious to know how your friends explain things like Test Track's themeing. Surely, the bean counters didn't tell WDI that they had to take a beautiful looking building like the World of Motion and stick scaffolding all over the place. I mean, honestly, they couldn't possibly think that the Test Track pavilion shares the architecture and style of all the buildings that preceded it. How about the pin wheels? Did the money-men force multi colored clutter (in the center of a post-modern park built around sight-lines) on WDI?
 
VT GAL

VT GAL

Member
SirGoofy,

I have zero doubt that the Imagineers working on SSE have had to work against many obstacles! Being an imagineer would be the best and worst job all rolled into one. I wouldn't call for their heads, but instead for them to watch videos and take in a little bit of the EPCOT of the past.
 
SirGoofy

SirGoofy

Member
Krack2 said:
Sir Goofy,

I'm curious to know how your friends explain things like Test Track's themeing. Surely, the bean counters didn't tell WDI that they had to take a beautiful looking building like the World of Motion and stick scaffolding all over the place. I mean, honestly, they couldn't possibly think that the Test Track pavilion shares the architecture and style of all the buildings that preceded it. How about the pin wheels? Did the money-men force multi colored clutter (in the center of a post-modern park built around sight-lines) on WDI?
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Don't know. As far as I know they didn't work on TT. And really? I think you're making too big a deal about pin wheels dude. :rolleyes:
 
Krack2

Krack2

Member
SirGoofy said:
Don't know. As far as I know they didn't work on TT. And really? I think you're making too big a deal about pin wheels dude. :rolleyes:
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Maybe, maybe not. If you don't mind, I would like you to ask them why WDI put them there. It's an open ended question, I'm honestly interested in what was going on in WDI where they eventually came to the conclusion: "I've got it figured out, we'll put these multi colored pinwheels and sun screens and big purple poles coming out of the ground and that will accomplish X." I'd just love to know the thought process.

I'll admit, of all the changes Disney has made in North America in the last 20 years, I singularly dislike the "World of Motion to Test Track" one the most, but overall the degradation of the overall themeing in Future World bothers me more than anything. EPCOT Center in 1985 was beautiful.
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
tirian said:
Yep, our whole country is missing that spirit, and now we're looking to big government for help. :fork: The government can't even file paperwork properly. Why should we expect it to do a better job for us? ::

Some of the newer attractions reflect this attitude; everything is either dumbed down or thought out for us. It's as if the WDI script writers didn't have enough faith in Guests to be able to THINK on their own! (Phoenicians and ABCs...)

The reasons for this don't belong on these boards, but one thing is certain: the optimism needs to return to Future World! Maybe it will be enough to inspire future leaders (tomorrow's child...)

I also think that with its new management, Epcot is on its way to recapturing the vision it lost in the late 90s. I still love the park and don't consider it a failure at all. But I'm concerned that if the Imagineers don't have the necessary optimism, they won't be able to completely instill a renewed sense of wonder and discovery in Epcot.
Click to expand...

The need to understand it...And I think they are learning!:sohappy:

VT GAL said:
Evan,

No worries!!! I knew it was a joke...but then again trying to get my DD to slow down is sometimes a joke, too !
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;):wave:

SirGoofy said:
And yet, you are the one saying SSE is a new direction for Epcot.::
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I said SSE might be a good new direction for the park...When it's finished=D
wannab@dis said:
Epcot hasn't lost any optimism... only a few purists who live in the past.

Thankfully, Epcot has improved greatly over the past few years. Gone are several of the snooze-fests and in their place are attractions that actually appeal to the guests. Gone is much of the aspect of boredom that hung around the neck of Epcot for years. Thankfully, the guests mattered, and they were given what they wanted... some entertainment and fun.

Final thought... isn't it interesting that all these "Epcot Angst" threads turn out to be filled with posts by the same few posters. These issues can't even create much excitement on a board of fans... :
Click to expand...


Hey, they asked a question...And I answer it.I hope you don't have a problem about that...seeing it's a forum!:lookaroun:lol:

And you say the same thing everytime too!How funny!:lol::wave::wave:
 
EPCOT.nut

EPCOT.nut

Well-Known Member
EPCOT Explorer said:
Hey, they asked a question...And I answer it.I hope you don't have a problem about that...seeing it's a forum!:lookaroun:lol:

And you say the same thing everytime too!How funny!:lol::wave::wave:
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I was thinking the same thing....:lol:....I know we are accused of the same old song and dance but it seems like the opposing counsel has the same one song on his jukebox too. :lol:
 
EPCOT Explorer

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
EPCOT.nut said:
I was thinking the same thing....:lol:....I know we are accused of the same old song and dance but it seems like the opposing consel has the same one song on his jukebox too. :lol:
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He always does...:rolleyes::lol:

Then again...:lookaroun We do too.:lookaroun:lol:

Eh...At least we are interesting.
 

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