Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[Eddie Sotto]

Is it really? My world isn't.:lol:
Also, there is nothing wrong with WDI being a person's ultimate goal. It is the pinnacle of theme park design, and a worthy aspiration for anyone with that interest.

Yes. It was my dream as early as 5 years old. And it came true better than I could have imagined. For most, WDI is the pinnacle as it was for me. One of the reasons I left was now that I had done that, I felt I needed to grow beyond Attraction Design and craved a more varied experience in mediums that were new (within Disney as a first choice) and that would make me more creatively valuable and fresh. So I left to learn the Internet and digital media for starters as a means of reinvention. Still love WDI and would have been proud to retire as an Imagineer.

 

[_Scar]

Except for rare occasions, shouldn't a job within Imagineering be seen more as a stepping stone in a career path? I would think it would be a great place for young people to get amazing experiences on the way to more serious and important disciplines. Just a thought about how I have always viewed Imagineering.

To someone, theme park designing could be their goal. Importance to someone is all in perspective. What you think is important, might not be important to somebody else.

Eddie, do imagineers have a set pay or do they only get payed if on a project doing work or designing?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

To someone, theme park designing could be their goal. Importance to someone is all in perspective. What you think is important, might not be important to somebody else.

Eddie, do imagineers have a set pay or do they only get payed if on a project doing work or designing?

Salaried based on job description or seniority, you bill the hours you spend to a funded project. Some are consultants.

 

[HMF]

I was shocked to hear the news, as he was always busy. He's not happy unless his busy (usually you're let go if you're not on a project for a while). Tim's 30 year career at WDI allowed him to grow up among the original Imagineers. Can't buy that. He did some epic stuff like Living Seas, DLP Discoveryland and TL for HKDL to name a few. And so many great things I had the chance to see him develop that you'll never see. At WDI most of your best stuff is never built! Delaney in my book is a Disney Legend and he will be missed for sure.

Eddie' this really concerns me. If they got rid of Delaney and Edwards and the rumored "Forced" retiring of Tony Baxter because of their insistence on quality' I would not last a week in WDI. I thought Bruce was supposed to be good.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

As much as I may be tempted to speculate on the effect of this kind of thing, I' won't.

When I walked out 10 years ago and several followed there was a concern about the "brain drain" of WDI and "what does this exodus mean, etc?". Of course, WDI did just fine. So I don't predict the future, others can do that better, but I do know there is life after Disney and it has certainly been good for me. If Tim and Valerie were any less talented I'd be concerned, but their best work is likely ahead of them.

 

[WDW1974]

The following is from the much-respected Lee MacDonald, Publisher of Tales from The Laughing Place.

I think it speaks for itself about Tim, and about the current state of affairs on Flower Street.

<<It all happened very quickly but it is correct. I didn't know Valerie at all but she was certainly worthy of being Blaine's true successor. Her new Admiral Donald for the two new DCL ships is beautiful - probably the best Donald sculpt that I've ever seen.

Tim on the other hand has been a good friend for many years. I regard him as one of the two greatest conceptualists and show producers at WDI (the other is Tom Morris). A thirty-two year imagineer whose body of work is second-to-none.

People will associate Tim with his role as executive producer for Paradise Pier and the entrance at DCA but neither were his choice. Bob Weis' team are spending nearly twice the amount of money on one attraction that Tim had for the entire Pier area ($350m versus $200m). No-one wanted the poisoned chalice of the entrance - Barry Braverman could not get a single creative lead to take it on. Tim did the best he could with the brief of the park being a postcard view of CA. His entrance cost less than the facade for the new Cathay Circle Theater - I kid you not.

Tim's real legacy will be his incredible work on EPCOT CENTER and especially The Living Seas. He was told by numerous engineers that the tank couldn't work but he endeavored to make it work. A lot of his touches were incorporated into Future World.

EuroDisneyland's Discoveryland is the only Tomorrowland that works. It is a wonderful architectural edifice to a Tomorrow that Never Was. It is the only timeless incarnation of a Tomorrowland. Again he was told that an angled LIM was impossible - he made it work for the incredible Space Mountain (in my view the greatest roller coaster ever made). He was told that synchronized music would never work - he made it work.

Paradise Pier is awash with similar touches - a steel coaster to look and feel like a woodie. Some whimsical designs like the former main store there. Even the Sun Wheel with its swinging cars and the other off-the-shelf attractions have small touches that make the difference. There isn't another Golden Zephyr out there - it is entirely unique. People might not like PP but he delivered on a ridiculously small budget. It isn't the biggest failure of DCA. His land was given less than a quarter of the park's budget and expected to deliver half the attraction count. Poor menu planning and a lack of executive leadership were not Tim's fault.

His work on HKDL's Tomorrowland again delivered the best possible version on a budget. He even stripped items like the giant Buzz and probe in the Space Mountain load area from DisneyQuest Chicago - he had nothing to work with. The park's Autopia is a wonderfully quirky version with its fun noises to replace the diesel putt-putt.

Recently his work has been largely conceptual. Jay rejected his and Tom's $750m HKDL PirateLand which was probably the greatest collection of concept art I've ever seen - it was breath-taking in its boldness. He pursued a project to improve queue line interaction which led to Epcot's Soarin' receiving the screen quiz. His work was instrumental in the evolution of the new MK Dumbo queue - it is the direct successor of his work. He also worked on a number of lodge concepts for the Disney Regional Resorts team - when Wing opted to retire and Don Goodman's Real Estate Development team was moved to Nick Franklin's NBD division the projects were largely snuffed out.

He was a wonderful mentor to a host of junior imagineers and he was a wonderfully creative partner. Seeing Tom Morris and Tim discuss projects was like watching kids in a sandbox. There are few people that truly understand what works in a Disney theme park.

He was largely responsible for the execution of the D23 Expo area for WDP&R - Tom Fitzgerald conceived the entrance but the rest was all executed by Dave Fisher and Tim Delaney. It worked because of them.

I'm still numb with shock. I just cannot fathom the logic behind this knuckle-headedness. It further reinforces my view that Bruce Vaughn is singularly the worst leader that WDI has ever had. He does nothing to protect the talent or nurture creative development. He is simply a hatchet man. At least his predecessors made projects happen. This is the problem with having a non-creative lead at WDI. Even Don Goodman's reign didn't breed the level of disharmony and sheer depression that currently grips WDI.

I know that Tim will enjoy his retirement - but it has come too early. Tim could have continued to contribute to WDI for many more years. His presence at 1401F will be missed by many of us that have had the privilege to know and work with him for so long. I regard him as one of the few executives to speak his mind and we shared very similar views of the current direction of WDP&R.

I hope that we are both proved wrong.>>

 

[HMF]

I can't keep track anymore one minute Bruce Vaughn is the savior' the next he is the devil. What is going on?

 

[WDW1974]

I can't keep track anymore one minute Bruce Vaughn is the savior' the next he is the devil. What is going on?

I have never considered him the savior of anything, except perhaps Jay Rasulo's bottom-line.

But I don't know anyone in Glendale that is happy with his leadership. Clearly, WDI is being morphed in Jay's image via Bruce's management and that's not a good thing.

Eddie may not want to say it, but I have no problem saying much of anything ... it runs in my family you could say.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I can't keep track anymore one minute Bruce Vaughn is the savior' the next he is the devil. What is going on?

Welcome to the world of business politics. In my experience when poor management is replaced there is such a sigh of relief when past errors are being corrected that it takes time for many to notice the new errors that are being made.

 

[CBOMB]

Lee Mac certainly sounds ticked off. I've heard very little from him of late.
When you look back at the talent at Disney that have moved on, in 2009, it really becomes shocking. It's almost like Mr Iger is purging the system.
What's going on '74?

 

[HMF]

If Tim and Valerie were any less talented I'd be concerned, but their best work is likely ahead of them.

Let's hope so. I would be devastated if I were in their position.

 

[SirGoofy]

Let's hope so. I would be devastated if I were in their position.

If you were them, you wouldn't be unemployed for long, and you'd probably make more money at your new job.

 

[HMF]

If you were them, you wouldn't be unemployed for long, and you'd probably make more money at your new job.

I know but it would be my dream job and that would be difficult to cope with. I hope they get hired by Universal Creative. (Yes' I really did just say that.)

 

[WDW1974]

Lee Mac certainly sounds ticked off. I've heard very little from him of late.
When you look back at the talent at Disney that have moved on, in 2009, it really becomes shocking. It's almost like Mr Iger is purging the system.
What's going on '74?

Bottom line ... my (highly) educated opinion is really simple.

The Weatherman is trying to remake Disney in his image. That's why you have people that are widely respected and liked (and talented to boot) being sent packing.

It's all business. And not in the capitalism is great way, but in the 21st century Wall Street way where absolutely nothing matters but the bottom line in the short term.

Everything is so cold and calculated. From Cook's dismissal for Ross. To using D23 and The Disney Blog as a way of co-opting (and the ultimate goal here) the fan community to the point that sites like this barely get noticed because everyone focuses on the PR line.

What company other than Disney could put on a four-day commercial for its 'fans' and charge them $140 to sit through it and feel special for doing so?

Seeing Valerie and Tim get cut just tells you what kind of cutthroat business TWDC is today.

Yet on another site we have people gushing because the new DLR Prez took a photo with them and asked them what their favorite attraction was. ... It's just all very disheartening.

They use Valerie to shill D23 and the new HoP, then she complains about Quality Control issues and is gone.

Tim does amazing work on the Pirates-expansion of A-land in HKDL, which would have been mindblowing, and is shown the door.

I really just want to see Iger gone. For everyone who gushed that he was no Michael Eisner, they were quite right. And it wasn't (largely) a good thing.

You could make an All-Star team with all the talent that's left Glendale in the past decade starting right here with the dude the thread is named for.

 

[HMF]

I really just want to see Iger gone.

And how does Roy fit into this equation?

 

[WDW1974]

If you were them, you wouldn't be unemployed for long, and you'd probably make more money at your new job.

Don't be so sure, buddy.

The economy sucks. And just because you are incredibly talented doesn't mean there's going to be an outlet for that creativity.

And even if there is, it could come with some ridiculous pay cut.

That's the 'new reality' of life in the USA in the 21st century.

And unfortunately, we can't fall into some amazing concept art and go to a better place!:ROFLOL:

 

[WDW1974]

And how does Roy fit into this equation?

I assume you are talking about Roy Disney.

And the answer is, he doesn't.

He is a figure-head. He was brought back in that PR capacity.

Despite the name (and accomplishments too) he has less power than almost any exec you can name.

And since Wall Street has no issues with The Weatherman's performance, Roy can't play the Save Disney card a second time even if he wanted to.

 

[_Scar]

The following is from the much-respected Lee MacDonald, Publisher of Tales from The Laughing Place.

I think it speaks for itself about Tim, and about the current state of affairs on Flower Street.

<<It all happened very quickly but it is correct. I didn't know Valerie at all but she was certainly worthy of being Blaine's true successor. Her new Admiral Donald for the two new DCL ships is beautiful - probably the best Donald sculpt that I've ever seen.

Tim on the other hand has been a good friend for many years. I regard him as one of the two greatest conceptualists and show producers at WDI (the other is Tom Morris). A thirty-two year imagineer whose body of work is second-to-none.

People will associate Tim with his role as executive producer for Paradise Pier and the entrance at DCA but neither were his choice. Bob Weis' team are spending nearly twice the amount of money on one attraction that Tim had for the entire Pier area ($350m versus $200m). No-one wanted the poisoned chalice of the entrance - Barry Braverman could not get a single creative lead to take it on. Tim did the best he could with the brief of the park being a postcard view of CA. His entrance cost less than the facade for the new Cathay Circle Theater - I kid you not.

Tim's real legacy will be his incredible work on EPCOT CENTER and especially The Living Seas. He was told by numerous engineers that the tank couldn't work but he endeavored to make it work. A lot of his touches were incorporated into Future World.

EuroDisneyland's Discoveryland is the only Tomorrowland that works. It is a wonderful architectural edifice to a Tomorrow that Never Was. It is the only timeless incarnation of a Tomorrowland. Again he was told that an angled LIM was impossible - he made it work for the incredible Space Mountain (in my view the greatest roller coaster ever made). He was told that synchronized music would never work - he made it work.

Paradise Pier is awash with similar touches - a steel coaster to look and feel like a woodie. Some whimsical designs like the former main store there. Even the Sun Wheel with its swinging cars and the other off-the-shelf attractions have small touches that make the difference. There isn't another Golden Zephyr out there - it is entirely unique. People might not like PP but he delivered on a ridiculously small budget. It isn't the biggest failure of DCA. His land was given less than a quarter of the park's budget and expected to deliver half the attraction count. Poor menu planning and a lack of executive leadership were not Tim's fault.

His work on HKDL's Tomorrowland again delivered the best possible version on a budget. He even stripped items like the giant Buzz and probe in the Space Mountain load area from DisneyQuest Chicago - he had nothing to work with. The park's Autopia is a wonderfully quirky version with its fun noises to replace the diesel putt-putt.

Recently his work has been largely conceptual. Jay rejected his and Tom's $750m HKDL PirateLand which was probably the greatest collection of concept art I've ever seen - it was breath-taking in its boldness. He pursued a project to improve queue line interaction which led to Epcot's Soarin' receiving the screen quiz. His work was instrumental in the evolution of the new MK Dumbo queue - it is the direct successor of his work. He also worked on a number of lodge concepts for the Disney Regional Resorts team - when Wing opted to retire and Don Goodman's Real Estate Development team was moved to Nick Franklin's NBD division the projects were largely snuffed out.

He was a wonderful mentor to a host of junior imagineers and he was a wonderfully creative partner. Seeing Tom Morris and Tim discuss projects was like watching kids in a sandbox. There are few people that truly understand what works in a Disney theme park.

He was largely responsible for the execution of the D23 Expo area for WDP&R - Tom Fitzgerald conceived the entrance but the rest was all executed by Dave Fisher and Tim Delaney. It worked because of them.

I'm still numb with shock. I just cannot fathom the logic behind this knuckle-headedness. It further reinforces my view that Bruce Vaughn is singularly the worst leader that WDI has ever had. He does nothing to protect the talent or nurture creative development. He is simply a hatchet man. At least his predecessors made projects happen. This is the problem with having a non-creative lead at WDI. Even Don Goodman's reign didn't breed the level of disharmony and sheer depression that currently grips WDI.

I know that Tim will enjoy his retirement - but it has come too early. Tim could have continued to contribute to WDI for many more years. His presence at 1401F will be missed by many of us that have had the privilege to know and work with him for so long. I regard him as one of the few executives to speak his mind and we shared very similar views of the current direction of WDP&R.

I hope that we are both proved wrong.>>

This write up about him seems very biased. But I'm guessing the Tales is not supposed to be a robotic from of reporting, and that's good.


Anywho, he was an amazing imagineer and he should have an amazing career. Imagine if he went to Universal and they gave him the budgets and creative force he wants.

The underlined section sort of surprised me. I don't know how that slipped through the cracks. :lookaroun:lol::lookaroun

But just remember we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. Anything is truly possible. Maybe not probable, but possible. And we will probably never truly know.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

As moderator, the reason this thread exists is to focus on my "take on the parks", not WDI politics. It's tempting as emotions run high. Unless there are official statements, this stuff is mostly conjecture, bordering on damaging gossip, something I don't want any involvement in perpetuating (and have been a victim of).

Of course, as those discussions are relevant and important to some, I think they deserve their own editorial thread as not to continue here and muddy the waters, so we can get back to discussing parks again. I loved where we were headed with looking at the hub vs other planning ideas.

Thanks.

 

[HMF]

As moderator, the reason this thread exists is to focus on my "take on the parks", not WDI politics. It's tempting as emotions run high. Unless there are official statements, this stuff is mostly conjecture, bordering on damaging gossip, something I don't want any involvement in (and have been a victim of).

Of course, as those discussions and are relevant and important to some, I think they deserve their own editorial thread as not to continue here and muddy the waters, so we can get back to discussing parks again. I loved where we were headed with looking a the hub vs other planning ideas.

Thanks.

Consider it Done.