Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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wserratore1963

Active Member
It's hard to say because I'm not in tune with how each park is doing. Creatively, the MK could use a "shot in the arm" so anything in MK sounds great to me. I'd guess that they need something to compete against HP at Universal at some point, so maybe Beastly Kingdom seems like the candidate. Star Tours 2.0 is a must, but to a guest it's an enhancement and that may not draw as well as something totally new, same for Imagination. I think they are all worthy as concepts.

So to answer your question, IMHO what WDW needs most, maybe even more than new shows, are the details. Overcoming it's enormous size and "paying attention to the little details" that make an attraction or land really great. It's so hard when you deal in huge volume like that, to stop and tune the experience so it really sings. "Tuning" the food and merchandise thematically to the lands and making it all one "special" experience seems to be less of a capital cost but could drive guest satisfaction.

(I have heard the new HM has done that.)
I was just wondering if you heard anything about Microsoft surface tables and a rumored new project at the odyssey. A friend of mine stated at a party that his father was being moved to Orlando to work on it.

Also what do you think of the proposed FL redo that has been much discussed here, ( If you already answered; my apologies.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Just wanted to add my opinion until ES returns. I like your ideas.

EDIT: and am I the only one not "thrilled" with the rumor of JttCotE coming to DAK? (Even with a rethemed version). Maybe I'm looking for "more." I've never been on JttCotE but at just under 3 minutes...that's like taking Test Track and cutting it in half. Sure, it's themed incredibly...and the ride experience is completely different...(only going by crappy youtube vids)...but it's too damn short! I'd rather something along the lines of Revenge of the Mummy with a coaster/dark ride hybrid than a rethemed clone of JttCotE.

Definitely. Mummy has a ride system that I think lends itself perfectly to journey. That Disney has not created a similar style ride suprises me. At some point you would think the folks at WDI and management will realize how revolutionary Mummy is and create a hybrid coaster/dark ride at Disney.

EXACTLY! Too many of the Disney attractions have the "Oh no, we veered off into the wrong direction!" feel to them.

I had posted my thoughts on an attraction based around a dragon (actually, the theme of an entire land) where the "Beastly Kingdom" land wasn't a land of mythology...but just a place where creatures that we THINK are mythological and imaginary were based on some fact...and the fact was...they are real. They found sanctuary on this remote island away from the other threats of the world. The Dragon wouldn't be "chasing you" but "defending" itself out of fear of humans. Animal Kingdom shouldn't be about "make-believe" it should be all based on fact, science, and reality...and you can pull that off even with a subject that is "made-up."

Islands of Adventure had the Triceratops Encounter...and, while I could tell it was fake, it really suspended belief with some. It's a shame it closed down because it did "Wow" some people. Plus, the kids loved it!

Great concept. Again, if MI happens I would think it would be exactly along the lines you describe. A much more "reality" based version of BK to put it in general terms.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I was just wondering if you heard anything about Microsoft surface tables and a rumored new project at the odyssey. A friend of mine stated at a party that his father was being moved to Orlando to work on it.

Also what do you think of the proposed FL redo that has been much discussed here, (If you already answered; my apologies.

No, I've heard nothing. Seems like your friend has the inside track. There is also a company that is doing touchscreen restaurants and running it is the son of Atari and Chuck E Cheese founder, Nolan Bushnell. Not as sexy as a touchtable, but they have interactive restaurants out there. http://www.uwink.com/

As for the Fantasyland thing, there's no art on it so it's hard to say. I think we all would agree that F'land is the heart and soul of any MK and adding to that can't be bad. WDW still has the metal tent theming and could use some soft scape and better area development. DLP has the biggest and most amazing Fantasyland as it sprawls out into it's own countryside. The freestanding "castle wall" notion seems very interesting as it has not been done before. If it's done like a big gate or portal that opens out, that would give the courtyard a great sense of place.
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
The ones that REALLY make those "details" happen are usually those on the ground in the WDI show quality departments at the parks. When I was there, Kim Irvine and her group at DL would pull favors with the maintenance groups and even work on their own time to paint AA figures and more, just to get the best possible product despite the budgets. Whole souled devotion. They really care and put their life into it.
Do Kim Irvine and Co. work in Glendale or Anaheim?
 

_Scar

Active Member
Do you think Journey in DAK is too similar to CTE/Dinosaur? Basically, you wanna be aware of the fact that you could end up with too many shows that rely on a "big mean something" coming after you (Yeti in Everest, T-Rex in Dinosaur, Snake in Journey, etc.) as their main focus.

Yes, and I also think DAK is filled with too many adult rides. But back to your quote. I think it will all work just because of the fact that at all of the IoA major attractions have to do with something going terribly wrong or going off course... it has worked for them. Especially when dealing with animals, it seems highly plausible when you mess with dangerous animals things go wrong.

If they did add JttCotE they should make it with the 20k package deal, but that is a lot of $$$ to drop on 2 major attractions with only 1 being suitable for *some* kids.

I still don't see why they haven't went ALL OUT on a Lion King dark ride that would be the park's signature attraction... but anything not Bestly seems off the radar for DAK as of right now. :cry:
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
"Do you think Journey in DAK is too similar to CTE/Dinosaur? Basically, you wanna be aware of the fact that you could end up with too many shows that rely on a "big mean something" coming after you (Yeti in Everest, T-Rex in Dinosaur, Snake in Journey, etc.) as their main focus."

Sounds like an awesome marketing focus to me- even if it may be a bit redundant. :)
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
In the TDA Building?

No. There are WDI design trailers out back behind Pirates. I was down there in the early nineties, but Kim works for Tony and they are a tireless bunch. It's very different working show quality at the park versus the slower project pace of WDI. You have to "put out fires" daily and if you want something to go in the way you want, you have to get it in during rehabs, so that is tough. The pace down there never slows up and the crew is small.
 

mickey's mamu

New Member
Oh Mr. Sotto,

Thank you so much for posting the link to the video of DLP. All I can say is WOW! I have never even seen pictures of it before, and I am simply in awe.

I have very much enjoyed reading this thread, especially your discussions on the process you went through to create Main Street. Now that I've seen your work there, I can't wait to see it in person. (My poor husband! He's always been very patient with my WDW addiction, but wait till he hears about this!) Seriously, it is simply stunning and I just wanted to say thank you for all the hard work you and your team put in to creating your vision of DLP Main Street.

Also, thank you for this thread. Though I rarely post, I check the forums everyday (to feed my addiction) and this is always the first one I read.
It is so refreshing to see a civilized, intelligent discussion and I have learned so much from you.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
civilized, intelligent discussion

All I can say is, "there goes the neighborhood!". Thank you for the kind words and what you saw in that video is the result of many many passionate Imagineers. When I see it I'm reminded of our team of super talents that put up with my obsessive nature and came through for all of us. Some names you may never read about but deserve mentioning and so much more.

Asst Art Directors- Eddie Johnson (started at WED in model shop when walt was alive and can build anything. Invaluable on trains and vehicles), Susan Cowan (worked installation and helped me with staging props and dressings) and Deb Rager (led exhibit design for the Liberty and Discovery Arcades).

Prop Buyer Conradine Holtz. She found collections of San Francisco art and Cable Car memorabilia for our SF themed Cable Car bakery. It is an antique show of the highest order along with the funky Camera shop.

Sandy Mullally, was our lead interior designer with Juan Delgado and Kim Minichello in France (Sandy worked on the film "Camelot"). FYI. Every drapery was custom selected, each cord and tassle has matching custom thread colors. We had an assembly line process on all the stained glass too. I would draw the stained glass lead work and Maureen Johnson and Sparky Parker did the glass selections and that's how we determined color. It was a team effort.

Katie Olsen and I worked on the facade color, her husband John saw to it we had the scribed bricks and faux stone on the facades just perfect. Ron Esposito was the field exterior art director for aging and scenic finish.

Tom Yorke and Louis Lemoine hand lettered designs for much of Main Street as we wanted it to feel handmade. No computer fonts! Tom was our Rail buff and kept me honest with history on the vehicles and trains.

Jim Michaelson, a super talent responsible for those amazing DL Stream Train attraction posters and the Discovery Arcade City Posters. We had worked together at Landmark Entertainment in the past. (He started by doing album covers for the Jefferson Airplane, Crosby Stills and Nash, and Nixon's victorian inspired campaign poster! http://www.flickr.com/photos/mindpollution/322758321/.)

There are way more to mention but one designer Les Gobruggie was in his 80's and even moved to France for us. He was a set designer from WB and did the most Beautiful detail drawings for the Gazebo and the Town Square East. He took my sketches and renderings and turned them into something amazing and that's what you see out there. It was Les that made that "gingerbread" fit to eat. His name is on the WWII studio memorial on the Warner Bros. Lot.

So many more that deserve mentioning, but that is just a few. I just wanted to give you a small sense of how big the team can be and that is only the top level and some of the art department! There is production, engineering, show writing, estimating, production (which is huge), audio, lighting, graphics, architecture, legal (you have to get the rights or legal clearance to every name on every window or prop!) and that's all inside of WDI! Then there are the operations folks that get assigned for you to meet and negotiate with. You can imagine how many meetings you are in and you are still expected to design something by the end of the day!
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
All I can say is I can't wait to again experience your team's amazing work/passion/art at DLP next month!

To all of the MK-lovers who haven't been there ... they need to save their Disney Dollars and go!
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
All I can say is I can't wait to again experience your team's amazing work/passion/art at DLP next month!

To all of the MK-lovers who haven't been there ... they need to save their Disney Dollars and go!

You need to raise Doom and Gloomers Salaries then...:lookaroun:lol:
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Here's a pretty cool video of how the Steam Trains were built at DLP. The voice you hear is Imagineer Bob Harpur. He was the steam engineering expert I had the honor to work with and who also worked on the construction of the WDW Trains. What a wonderful man. I was the creative or show side and he was my technical counterpart. My job was doing things like approving the sound of the whistle! (we adjusted it several times). This amazing assembly footage was shot in Tradegar, Wales, UK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSp8yCneru4

The next video is one of mine (has no audio) and was shot one winter at the roundhouse with my wife at least ten years ago. You can really see the detail and striping. We had English pinstripers come out and they added even more to it! All the leaf is 24k gold. I fell head over heels for the colors and designs of restored trains in the California State Rail Museum, namely the Sonoma, Genoa, Stanford and the Empire. The coaches colors and striping are also lifted from the real thing in the museum too. Very unusual color combinations like orange and brown with cream and gray, steel blue boilers, or natural wood cabs. None of that was on existing Disney trains. So why not do it? Here's someone's gallery page so you can see where we got our inspiration! In literature they call it "plagiarism", in the movies you call it "research".

http://rides.webshots.com/album/560098192KyPGXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxk0...F96D4EF9&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=67
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Where we get our ideas!

Just to riff on the real "origins" of Disney design, I've linked a site that shows you the REAL house that is the inspiration for the DL Haunted Mansion. It's a Baltimore Mansion in a victorian research book that was part of the WDI library. I recall seeing it in the book, it kind of startles you as you don't expect to see it as this historic building. No doubt the Imagineer Ken Anderson saw it, liked it and used it as it's almost an exact match. Enjoy.

http://www.doombuggies.com/history3.php
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Dear Eddie, I did notice that the Tokyo HM is TOTALY different on so many levels..care to go into this? Thanks!

It is most similar to the WDW HM although there have been some minor enhancements. For one, the elevators don't go down. I have not seen it since I was involved in TDL which was a decade ago. To me, the biggest issue is not the show itself, but it's location in Fantasyland. We had to add a 300 seat restaurant between it and IASW and the problem is how to bridge those two very different worlds. So usually plant material is what you use for transitions and so we did the "Queen of Hearts Banquet Hall" as a hedgemaze in forced perspective on the roof. Tony taught me not to be afraid of doing strange stuff like that, you just have to know what you're doing and be careful not to blow the illusion. The result is that you are never conscious of any architecture, but rather a castle wall containing lots of "hedges" leading to a distant castle. That makes for a very simple and green transition between the two.

Here's more with pictures.
http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID503130.asp
 

_Scar

Active Member
It is most similar to the WDW HM although there have been some minor enhancements. For one, the elevators don't go down. I have not seen it since I was involved in TDL which was a decade ago. To me, the biggest issue is not the show itself, but it's location in Fantasyland. We had to add a 300 seat restaurant between it and IASW and the problem is how to bridge those two very different worlds. So usually plant material is what you use for transitions and so we did the "Queen of Hearts Banquet Hall" as a hedgemaze in forced perspective on the roof. Tony taught me not to be afraid of doing strange stuff like that, you just have to know what you're doing and be careful not to blow the illusion. The result is that you are never conscious of any architecture, but rather a castle wall containing lots of "hedges" leading to a distant castle. That makes for a very simple and green transition between the two.

Here's more with pictures.
http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID503130.asp

You dsigned that? When I first saw that at LP I was in awe. :cool: VERY, very cool.


Have you rode the Monters Inc ride at TDL? I heard it was a great que but the ride was okay. What do you think of it?
 
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