Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

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Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I don't know. There are things that affect business that are not related to what you add, like currency exchange rates and pent up demand. Entertainment also drops in things like events that bump attendance or package pricing strategies. It's hard to say because competition is more than just the master plan of any one park, they sell the resort experience as a whole.
 

CBOMB

Active Member
Any idea who is going to be heading up the Shanghai project? Because of the scope of the park in China I would imagine a fair amount of the Imagineering will have to be outsourced. Wouldn't it be prudent of TWDC to use people familar with the interworkings of Disney.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Any idea who is going to be heading up the Shanghai project? Because of the scope of the park in China I would imagine a fair amount of the Imagineering will have to be outsourced. Wouldn't it be prudent of TWDC to use people familar with the interworkings of Disney.

Not really my area. Been away too long, but having people inside or out of WDI who know what they are doing always makes good sense!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Yep its a stunner all round. It really bugs me when people talk about DLP being a failure etc when they really have no idea how incredibly well it was made, and in just it's first year, it became the most visited tourist attarction in all of Europe - and there's a lot of competition!

I hear ya, Steve. And agree. Even knowing what I was in for from pictures, video and friends, I was still stunned at the beauty and detail ... and my first visit was when upkeep was at an all-time low.

A lot of the DLP being a failure line comes from American fans who have never set foot in the park, many who have never set foot outside the USA.

Walt said 'quality will out' and that was certainly the case at DLP. Can't wait to get back there!

I jsut wish they hadn't recently butchered Space Mountain in Paris - the original DLP version was so well done.

Sadly, I never got to experience the original 'From Earth to the Moon' concept. I enjoy Mission 2 quite a bit (except for the brain damage and back issues that it causes!) ... but this is where I'd bring in my argument about WDW and EPCOT in particular. I enjoy Mission 2 because I never had the chance to see/experience the original, which i know was superior.

That's much like what I feel happens in Florida where fanbois who never experienced EPCOT Center in its amazing first decade, indeed many who never visited until this decade think Epcot is the best its ever been.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
This may all be true. Here's my little rant on the topic :)

In order to get permission to build the project, deals had to be made with the government in the way of development and jobs. I was told they had to build out the 5 hotels to reach certain negotiated job targets in these areas. Once the budget goes up, on paper you keep adding to what you think the guest has to spend (high room rates) to cover that and at some point those assumptions become unrealistic, even for a well attended park. They eventually overshoot how much guests would spend, and culturally Europeans are not the souvenir buyers we are. And they did. Attendance was there but profit was not. Then add higher labor costs, low productivity, and issues with housing and transportation (last train back was at midnight so the cast could not get home unless they had a car) for the cast and your costs go nuts. I'm sure there is more to it, but these are big drivers.

when we built that park, DLP had the "lowest overall cost per guest carried" of any park. Meaning if you average the capacity (how many can see it in an hour or day) of the attractions against what is spent on them, then you have a "cost" to carry that guest. So we chose attractions that were high in capacity and low in their overall cost. No one remembers that.

The only confusing thing to me is, with all the information out there about the broken business plan, making the wrong deals, building 5 hotels, or underestimating the labor costs, etc. what I still hear as the short sole reason was that "the designers spent too much money on the park". There is both truth and nuance to this. Everything was approved in advance by those in power as we built the park. What I object to is the assertion by some that we were by nature "irresponsible" or "reckless" in what we were doing, and in turn not professional or trustworthy. The truth is that we had to propose all designs to management and they had to accept or reject them. Some they did, others they did not, and we obeyed that. We did not have the authority to spend beyond any approved budget. In the case of Interiors, we were not shown the budget we were working to and would only be told if what we were doing was going over. We turn our finishes in and they'd say we're ok or not and we kept going. Of course, eventually things would go over and we'd cut something in reaction to that and they approved it. Bottom Line is that we lived by the rules that were set for us. Ironically, DLP Main Street in many ways has been the interiors model for the other MSUSA's to follow conceptually.

Funny story alert! As an example, I got reamed after opening by one executive for the Arcades being "too elaborate" and a waste of money. I told this individual that another exec (same level) had come through earlier and upon seeing them mid construction thought they were "too dark" and "uninviting" and ordered me to "add more" and "they better be great". So I did and the costs were approved by my management in advance and they reflect that scope. Contrary to what many believe, creatives could not spend any significant money without someone approving it and you justifying it to them. (BTW-Those two execs are long gone.) I guess if you have to be blamed for something, you'd rather be blamed for making it "too good"!

Thanks for the insight, as usual.

I do think that 'blaming the reckless creatives' was a very convenient excuse for the fact that Disney's own projections on things like food, merchandise -- and how many people would actually want to spend a night or more 'on property' -- were way off.

As Steve mentioned, Euro Disney overnight was the No. 1 tourist destination in Europe. That says it all.

The fact they didn't want to buy Disney chintz or expected wine with dinner were things that the strategic planners should have known and planned for. Even the overbuilding of resorts, while true at first, eventually caught up. They have had excellent load levels at their resorts for years and generally at outrageous pricing.

It's just always easier to blame the artists with their heads in the clouds than it is to say the money guys were way off on their projections.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Any idea who is going to be heading up the Shanghai project? Because of the scope of the park in China I would imagine a fair amount of the Imagineering will have to be outsourced. Wouldn't it be prudent of TWDC to use people familar with the interworkings of Disney.

Bob Weis is heading up the Shanghai resort.

I think he's an excellent choice (not that anyone asked).
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Bob Weis is heading up the Shanghai resort.

I think he's an excellent choice (not that anyone asked).

I don't think the deal has been signed yet, but if he will be running it I agree. Good choice. Bob Weis coming back is another big reason to bet on the WDI renaissance. They are doing enough of the right things to attract experienced talent to the front lines and they are giving them something worthy to do. Bob is a VERY smart guy and would not have returned if he thought it was gonna be a management fiasco. In my book that says alot.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
what I still hear as the short sole reason was that "the designers spent too much money on the park".
I won't profess to have any intimate knowledges about the financial troubles of the park. Nonetheless, I am of the opinion that this 'spending too much' is what made life easier for the company in the long run. Despite its rough first decade, the Park's financial difficulties have been overcome. Because the people came, and came back, in droves. Quality is an excellent foundation, and can whither a storm.

The Park is beautiful, a rousing creative succes. And I am a facitious European. If Disney had first built a park resembling, say, DCA, or the Paris Studio's, I would never have returned. I was nothing short of insulted by the Studios. A disgrace.

Whereas DLP wins over its audience, including the tough to crack market of Europeans with some spending power. The Park is a winner.


As an aside, I am not sure whether you designed the arcades in Main Street. I seem to recall reading about them in this thread earlier. (Maybe not)
However that may be, I was in DLP last week, and spend a lovely hour studying the vitrines in both arcades. I loved the little French-American history, and the turn of the century machinery, even carefully read all of the signage. I felt as if I were in a museum. Which is, firstly, meant as a compliment.

And, secondly, meant to draw attention to the fact that I consider 'museum-like' a compliment. Some refinement, a 'layered' park, that is what draws me to Disney. Hannah Montana and photo-ops with celebrity furs, not so much. And it is in these former aspects that DLP excells. Owing, I presume, to no small degree to 'spending too much' on quality.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
I won't profess to have any intimate knowledges about the financial troubles of the park. Nonetheless, I am of the opinion that this 'spending too much' is what made life easier for the company in the long run. Despite its rough first decade, the Park's financial difficulties have been overcome. Because the people came, and came back, in droves. Quality is an excellent foundation, and can whither a storm.

The Park is beautiful, a rousing creative succes. And I am a facitious European. If Disney had first built a park resembling, say, DCA, or the Paris Studio's, I would never have returned. I was nothing short of insulted by the Studios. A disgrace.

Whereas DLP wins over its audience, including the tough to crack market of Europeans with some spending power. The Park is a winner.


As an aside, I am not sure whether you designed the arcades in Main Street. I seem to recall reading about them in this thread earlier. (Maybe not)
However that may be, I was in DLP last week, and spend a lovely hour studying the vitrines in both arcades. I loved the little French-American history, and the turn of the century machinery, even carefully read all of the signage. I felt as if I were in a museum. Which is, firstly, meant as a compliment.

And, secondly, meant to draw attention to the fact that I consider 'museum-like' a compliment. Some refinement, a 'layered' park, that is what draws me to Disney. Hannah Montana and photo-ops with celebrity furs, not so much. And it is in these former aspects that DLP excells. Owing, I presume, to no small degree to 'spending too much' on quality.

Wow thanks! What a great compliment to the efforts of all involved. (Yes the Arcades were my responsibility.) We lobbied to add the "museum layer" you mention to MSUSA as we thought Europeans enjoy the richness and depth of those kinds of experiences as museums are a part of your diet. I was told by the operations folks that guests spent an average of 2 hours in MSUSA @ DLP, the longest of any park so they must have been looking at something.

The "Patent Models" came from a collector in Beverly Hills and we got the best examples. You may have noticed many were from immigrants and women. Surprising for that time. The "Statue of Liberty" displays were careful to not pander to either government but rather to tell the story of how ordinary people supported it and made it happen.

Thanks for the kind words and it's thrilling to hear that the intended audience "gets it" and appreciates those extra "layers".
 

The Conundrum

New Member
Does anyone know what happened to Scott Trowbridge? He is the guy behind Spider-Man and Wizarding World of Harry Potter. I know he transfered from Universal Creative to WDI R&D but I heard rumors that haven't given him anything worthwhile to work on. Is that true or is he cooking up some cool projects?
 

HMF

Well-Known Member
Eddie does actually Have a quote in Kevin Rafferty's Imagineering book about designing DLP's Main Street.
"While designing Main Street, we put an intensive amount of historic research into every little detail' from the wall coverings right down to the many authentic props we imported from the United States. Main Street is like a living museum of real America."-Eddie Sotto.
 

Eddie Sotto

Premium Member
Eddie does actually Have a quote in Kevin Rafferty's Imagineering book about designing DLP's Main Street.
"While designing Main Street, we put an intensive amountofhistoric research into every little detail' from the wall coverings right down to the many authentic props we imported from the United States. Main Street is like a living museum of real America."-Eddie Sotto.

Wow. I said that? LOL. who'd a thunk it?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I don't think the deal has been signed yet, but if he will be running it I agree. Good choice. Bob Weis coming back is another big reason to bet on the WDI renaissance. They are doing enough of the right things to attract experienced talent to the front lines and they are giving them something worthy to do. Bob is a VERY smart guy and would not have returned if he thought it was gonna be a management fiasco. In my book that says alot.

As far as I know, all that awaits is the Central government in Beijing signing off on the project, which they're going to do.

But Bob has been made lead creative of it. I think his DCA duties will be handed off to someone else soon after the official announcement. I can guarantee this will be a whole lot closer to a DLP type project (in scope, size and quality) than a HKDL type.

I'm also willing to bet Disney dangled the possibility of Shanghai when he agreed to come back and handle Extreme Makeover: Theme Park Edition.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Does anyone know what happened to Scott Trowbridge? He is the guy behind Spider-Man and Wizarding World of Harry Potter. I know he transfered from Universal Creative to WDI R&D but I heard rumors that haven't given him anything worthwhile to work on. Is that true or is he cooking up some cool projects?

When last I heard his name mentioned, it was in the realm of him being very disappointed he didn't get Shanghai ... and there seems to be a sense from some in Glendale that he is being wasted.

I need to check in with my bothans (oops, Honor Hunter moment!):eek:
 

The Conundrum

New Member
When last I heard his name mentioned, it was in the realm of him being very disappointed he didn't get Shanghai ... and there seems to be a sense from some in Glendale that he is being wasted.

I need to check in with my bothans (oops, Honor Hunter moment!):eek:

Man screw shanghai. I want Towbridge working on rides for the american parks!

I remember a rumor on LP that Disney was planning to relaunch the ill fated Black Hole as a movie franchise and that Towbridge was working on an attraction for it supposedly using nextgen special effects. But I have no idea how credible that person was.
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
Hi, I'm new to WDWmagic... first post ever! :wave: I just wanted to stop in and say hello to Eddie Sotto, it's a real honor to be talking on the same board with you. I'm an architecture student at Ball State University, and I'm a big fan of your work for DLP. Maybe someday my own profession will cross paths with WDI.

One question: Would you say your work and the concepts for the 1920's Main Street in Paris were an inspiration for the upcoming Buena Vista Street? There seem to be many similarities.

I'm so excited for Buena Vista Street! It may actually my favorite part of the DCA renovation. A large part of DCA's initial failure, IMO, had to do with its uninteresting entrance. The new one looks like an art deco Californian fantasy brought to life.

And also, did you ever work in a Disney park? (Okay, two questions)

Bob Weis is heading up the Shanghai resort.

I think he's an excellent choice (not that anyone asked).

I agree, I'm glad that Disney is going with someone so reliable - working on Hollywood Studios and heading the DCA renovation is in impressive resume.

...
However that may be, I was in DLP last week, and spend a lovely hour studying the vitrines in both arcades. I loved the little French-American history, and the turn of the century machinery, even carefully read all of the signage. I felt as if I were in a museum. Which is, firstly, meant as a compliment.
...

I've also loved the idea of those arcades (haven't seen them in person yet... next year maybe). When I was at the MK at Christmas, Main Street was so packed that, as we entered, we had to be diverted backstage through the cast member parking lot... and it was so ugly! The lot was lined with sandbags just so we would know where to walk. It made me realize WDW's MK could use some arcades of its own. Even just one to the east of Main Street would be sufficient, I'm sure. Anyone agree?
 

_Scar

Active Member
Hi, I'm new to WDWmagic... first post ever! :wave: I just wanted to stop in and say hello to Eddie Sotto, it's a real honor to be talking on the same board with you. I'm an architecture student at Ball State University, and I'm a big fan of your work for DLP. Maybe someday my own profession will cross paths with WDI.

One question: Would you say your work and the concepts for the 1920's Main Street in Paris were an inspiration for the upcoming Buena Vista Street? There seem to be many similarities.

I'm so excited for Buena Vista Street! It may actually my favorite part of the DCA renovation. A large part of DCA's initial failure, IMO, had to do with its uninteresting entrance. The new one looks like an art deco Californian fantasy brought to life.

And also, did you ever work in a Disney park? (Okay, two questions)



I agree, I'm glad that Disney is going with someone so reliable - working on Hollywood Studios and heading the DCA renovation is in impressive resume.



I've also loved the idea of those arcades (haven't seen them in person yet... next year maybe). When I was at the MK at Christmas, Main Street was so packed that, as we entered, we had to be diverted backstage through the cast member parking lot... and it was so ugly! The lot was lined with sandbags just so we would know where to walk. It made me realize WDW's MK could use some arcades of its own. Even just one to the east of Main Street would be sufficient, I'm sure. Anyone agree?


He is well known for his AMAZING work in Disneyland Paris.
 
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