Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[tirian]

Museum of the Weird was to be a separate attraction. Although many Imagineers were involved in the NOS expansion, it's easiest to think of the Captain Gore HM as Ken Andersons' baby and Museum of the Weird as Rolly Crumps'. Marc David, X. Antencio, Yale Gracey, and Claude Coats led the way in combining the two concepts into the HM.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

(Happiest Millionaire "Clancy's Bar" in Cafe Orleans)

Good God, there's lots of Happiest Millionaire stuff at Disneyland.

Set pieces from Clancy's Bar (Cafe Orleans), sofa chairs (Dream Suite) and the telephone both (Club 33) from the Biddle's house, the Fortuosity store and songs on the Main Street music loop.

Wish WDW had more stuff like that.

 

[Huck]

Mark Twain was one of the most outspoken supporters of equal rights— which is why Jim is the only sincere person in Huck Finn—and it's a tragedy to see Twain's books ostracized by small-minded school officials.



*****

EPCOT Explorer,
Early concepts for DL's HM involved a sea captain and a voodoo queen and... well, they had some really cool ideas.

EDIT: His name was Captain Gore.[/QUOTE

Wasn't going to get into it, but I completely agree with you on this one. Mwybe my screen name was a giveaway, though?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Good God, there's lots of Happiest Millionaire stuff at Disneyland.

Set pieces from Clancy's Bar (Cafe Orleans), sofa chairs (Dream Suite) and the telephone both (Club 33) from the Biddle's house, the Fortuosity store and songs on the Main Street music loop.

Wish WDW had more stuff like that.

Maybe one reason for that is that the film was being made while NOS was in production. There is a cult following for it at WDI. Doing Main Street, we tried to watch as many Disney films set in our "Turn of the Century" period to get a feel for the "Disney look" as to find that unique signature in the use of color and scale. This style translates directly to the parks as the same people styled both projects. So naturally those props and left overs fit beautifully into the park! They are colorful, romanticized worlds, not really based on cold realism. We then expanded on that signature. Pollyanna, Summer Magic, Millionaire, So Dear to my Heart, and some others give you a good sense of how set decorators like Emil Kuri approached spaces. Beyond Disney is Warner Bros. "The Music Man", and Fox's epic "Hello Dolly".

 

[tirian]

Maybe one reason for that is that the film was being made while NOS was in production. There is a cult following for it at WDI. Doing Main Street, we tried to watch as many Disney films set in our "Turn of the Century" period to get a feel for the "Disney look" as to find that unique signature in the use of color and scale. This style translates directly to the parks as the same people styled both projects. So naturally those props and left overs fit beautifully into the park! They are colorful, romanticized worlds, not really based on cold realism. We then expanded on that signature. Pollyanna, Summer Magic, Millionaire, So Dear to my Heart, and some others give you a good sense of how set decorators like Emil Kuri approached spaces. Beyond Disney is Warner Bros. "The Music Man", and Fox's epic "Hello Dolly".

I've grown fond of this movie over the last few years. It's definitely an unappreciated classic.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

...and Fox's epic "Hello Dolly".

No kidding, is that where the elevated train concept came from?

Glad to see WDI members loving these films that unfortunately the public knows so little about.

 

[_Scar]

Do you think BTMRR on an island is a good idea? I think it's amazing and do you think that TSI will ever hold a ride on the island?

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Do you think BTMRR on an island is a good idea? I think it's amazing and do you think that TSI will ever hold a ride on the island?

Isn't one of the BTMMR's already on one? DLP's I think?:lookaroun

 

[Eddie Sotto]

No kidding, is that where the elevated train concept came from?

Glad to see WDI members loving these films that unfortunately the public knows so little about.

Yes it totally was. As a kid I visited the NY Dolly set prior to filming that parade scene and was so blown away. I told my mom at age 10 that I wanted to make big sets like that and meet whoever designed it. The Dolly set was bigger and better than any Main Street! John De Cuir, Dolly's production designer (http://www.cinematix.us/decuirbio.htm) was actually taught by Herb Ryman at Chouinard Art School! When I told Herb how much I admired John he said "you should, he was my star student!". I spent some time with John watching him work, but not nearly enough. He was and is my design hero. I was determined to "Doll-ify" Main Street no matter what. We got close. Look at the billboards and graphics. The Plaza Inn got a few details from the Harmonia Gardens. The copper landings on the RR Station owe something to Dolly. If you compare the El Station in the MS concept art it's an exact lift from the set. BTW- Bonus trivia...Tony Baxter was an extra on that set during the parade scene so he is a fan too!

Dolly artwork is here too.

http://barbra-archives.com/films/hello_dolly_3_streisand.html

Thanks to Wall-E more people have seen this movie.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Yes it totally was. As a kid I visited the NY Dolly set prior to filming that parade scene and was so blown away. I told my mom at age 10 that I wanted to make big sets like that and meet whoever designed it. it was bigger and better than any Main Street! John De Cuir the production designer was Actually taught by Herb Ryman at Choinard Art School! When i told Herb how much I admired John he said "you should, I taught him!". I spent some time with John but not nearly enough. He was and is my hero. I was determined to "Dollify" Main Street no matter what. We got close. look at the billboards and graphics. The copper landings on the RR Station owe something to Dolly. BTW- Tony Baxter was an extra on that set during the parade scene so he is a fan too!

That's so neat! I knew of the thousands of extras in that scene, but had no idea Tony was among them!

Oh it's stories like these that make me so glad you joined this site Mr. Sotto.

 

[ttalovebug]

Been lurking, and like eveyone else, just have to say thanks for your contributions to the forum! This thread is epic.

^Awesome stuff about Dolly. "Put on your Sunday clothes" is, IMO, the best-fitting song on Main Street. Hearing it totally transports you to that era. And what a pleasant suprise it was to hear Michael Crawford's voice singing that song at the begining of WALL-E!

 

[SimonV]

Isn't one of the BTMMR's already on one? DLP's I think?

Yes, it most certainly is. The loading station is NOT on the island, though, and the initial part of the ride goes UNDER the lake before emerging on BTMMR 'island.' Very clever.

And, having been drawn here by Eddie's 'presence' (!) with a professional interest in the Disney parks, I'd just like to underline what an extraordinary park DLP really is for anyone who hasn't been. Although we haven't yet been to TDL or DLHK, the DLP 'Magic Kingdom' is definitely the most creative and eye-catching from an all-round design perspective, to my mind. The Imagineers certainly went the extra mile in creating the necessary immersive environment and there is SO much of the Disneyland Park in DLP that is just pure design for design's sake. You can wander there for hours and just soak in the architecture and landscaping, as it definitely goes beyond the scope of the others we have seen.

We make several mentions of this facet in our DLP guide and our hats are most certainly off to Eddie and Co for the depth and breadth of the design elements involved.

So, if you haven't been yet, what's keeping you?!

 

[WDW1974]

Yes, it most certainly is. The loading station is NOT on the island, though, and the initial part of the ride goes UNDER the lake before emerging on BTMMR 'island.' Very clever.

And, having been drawn here by Eddie's 'presence' (!) with a professional interest in the Disney parks, I'd just like to underline what an extraordinary park DLP really is for anyone who hasn't been. Although we haven't yet been to TDL or DLHK, the DLP 'Magic Kingdom' is definitely the most creative and eye-catching from an all-round design perspective, to my mind. The Imagineers certainly went the extra mile in creating the necessary immersive environment and there is SO much of the Disneyland Park in DLP that is just pure design for design's sake. You can wander there for hours and just soak in the architecture and landscaping, as it definitely goes beyond the scope of the others we have seen.

We make several mentions of this facet in our DLP guide and our hats are most certainly off to Eddie and Co for the depth and breadth of the design elements involved.

So, if you haven't been yet, what's keeping you?!

Great post. And agreed. DLP is the most detailed, amazing MK park created yet. The layers are staggering (and like all Disney parks, many things have certainly been dumbed down/removed since 1992).

I wish the folks running it paid more care with maintenance issues ... and that merchandise hadn't been dumbed down so much.

But once you set foot in DLP, you'll never view the MK the same way that's for sure.

I guess Eddie (and all of TB's team) actually does have some talent!:ROFLOL:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Great post. And agreed. DLP is the most detailed, amazing MK park created yet. The layers are staggering (and like all Disney parks, many things have certainly been dumbed down/removed since 1992).
But once you set foot in DLP, you'll never view the MK the same way that's for sure.

One reason for this is that Europe's "layers" are more "staggering" and they can sense when they are missing or faked. I'd go out to eat at some small french cafe that had been redone many times, with walls from the 17th century (filled in windows) and wiring scabbed over in the 20th. Walls that lean from settling and steps with warping from years of wear. People grow up in these layers, asphalt just now buttered over the cobblestone streets. The cheapest flats having the richness of the nineteenth century moldings and beaux arts. How could we pave our 19th Century Main Street in 20th Century asphalt and expect our audience that lives on the real cobblestone to buy into it? It would be a joke. Europe make us kick it all up about six notches. They know their design periods better than Americans because they still live in them, so we have to be better researched than they are about our own culture and blow them away with layers of America.

 

[CaptainMichael]

One reason for this is that Europe's "layers" are more "staggering" and they can sense when they are missing or faked. I'd go out to eat at some small french cafe that had been redone many times, with walls from the 17th century (filled in windows) and wiring scabbed over in the 20th. Walls that lean from settling and steps with warping from years of wear. People grow up in these layers, asphalt just now buttered over the cobblestone streets. The cheapest flats having the richness of the nineteenth century moldings and beaux arts. How could we pave our 19th Century Main Street in 20th Century asphalt and expect our audience that lives on the real cobblestone to buy into it? It would be a joke. Europe make us kick it all up about six notches. They know their design periods better than Americans because they still live in them, so we have to be better researched than they are about our own culture and blow them away with layers of America.

God bless the Europeans! Seriously, I wish we had higher standards as a society.

 

[techiegsy]

God bless the Europeans! Seriously, I wish we had higher standards as a society.

Haha! Your Welcome... But the only problem is we are all a little bit more miserable... But that's made up for by the beautiful park...

And great to see your still here Eddie! The walk around DLP is very different to WDW, I personally love Main Street and the Jules Verne style "Discoveryland". It's a real shame that WDS wasn't up to the same standard as the original park there, even now it seems to be a mish-mangle of ideas and themes. The now central-ish Hollywood style area, which is very small, sits right next to the hat (no difference there...) but it then goes up to the tram tour and Armageddon branches of it? I know it's a studio, but it doesn't seem to be all that well planned?

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Haha! Your Welcome... But the only problem is we are all a little bit more miserable... But that's made up for by the beautiful park...

And great to see your still here Eddie! The walk around DLP is very different to WDW, I personally love Main Street and the Jules Verne style "Discoveryland". It's a real shame that WDS wasn't up to the same standard as the original park there, even now it seems to be a mish-mangle of ideas and themes. The now central-ish Hollywood style area, which is very small, sits right next to the hat (no difference there...) but it then goes up to the tram tour and Armageddon branches of it? I know it's a studio, but it doesn't seem to be all that well planned?

I have never seen the studios. But the one thing that concerns me about Europe is this horrible ban on incandescent light bulbs. Making everyone use the compact florescent bulb (twisty one) will make for the ugliest Main Street and DLP ever. The cold color and flat intensity of those lights is hideous. It really depresses me.
http://www.businesspundit.com/new-light-bulb-rules-make-citizens-hoard-old-bulbs/

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

One reason for this is that Europe's "layers" are more "staggering" and they can sense when they are missing or faked. I'd go out to eat at some small french cafe that had been redone many times, with walls from the 17th century (filled in windows) and wiring scabbed over in the 20th. Walls that lean from settling and steps with warping from years of wear. People grow up in these layers, asphalt just now buttered over the cobblestone streets. The cheapest flats having the richness of the nineteenth century moldings and beaux arts. How could we pave our 19th Century Main Street in 20th Century asphalt and expect our audience that lives on the real cobblestone to buy into it? It would be a joke. Europe make us kick it all up about six notches. They know their design periods better than Americans because they still live in them, so we have to be better researched than they are about our own culture and blow them away with layers of America.

We need more culture here. Seriously.

God bless the Europeans! Seriously, I wish we had higher standards as a society.

Exactly.

I have never seen the studios. But the one thing that concerns me about Europe is this horrible ban on incandescent light bulbs. Making everyone use the compact florescent bulb (twisty one) will make for the ugliest Main Street and DLP ever. The cold color and flat intensity of those lights is hideous. It really depresses me.
http://www.businesspundit.com/new-light-bulb-rules-make-citizens-hoard-old-bulbs/

They could use LEDs that mimic the effect.:shrug:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

We need more culture here. Seriously.


Exactly.

They could use LEDs that mimic the effect.:shrug:

Good point. In some cases that is true (they have color changing peanut bulbs for facade lighting now), but part of the charm of Main Street is the old fashioned warmth of looking at the filament of those early Edison bulbs. LED does not yet have that same feel. I'm doing a project right now where the preference is to use LED everywhere but it's a period space. So we got permission to do LED as indirect lighting and halogen and Edison bulbs where you see them. I also learned that dimming LED is still problematic in that it flickers at some levels and or it's lifespan is greatly reduced. I wonder if there are loopholes the parks can get around on some of this non period stuff?

 

[SimonV]

Europe make us kick it all up about six notches. They know their design periods better than Americans because they still live in them, so we have to be better researched than they are about our own culture and blow them away with layers of America.

The depth of European culture is unarguable, but modern Europeans don't necessarily buy into their history and heritage very eagerly, and many can be astonishingly ignorant of their surroundings. You only have to look at a lot of modern British city architecture to realise the connection with the past was lost sometime in the 1960s. I think that's one of the reasons why the Disneyland Park is such a triumph, because it DOES remind us of how well things fitted together and how things could grow organically - like Frank Lloyd Wright and Gaudi architecture. That essential connection has been lost in too many modern instances and just because the US doesn't have quite the same cultural depth doesn't mean it can't also contribute in meaningful ways. We are currently working on a new book project that looks, in part, at small-town Ameriva, and there is a LOT to admire in places like Flint, MI; Oak Ridge, TN; Chattannooga, TN; Forsyth, GA; and Sarasota, FL. As a Brit living in the US, America certainly shouldn't sell itself short in cultural terms, and it's great to hear Eddie's comments about how one can inspire the other.