Eddie Sotto's take on the current state of the parks

[EPCOT Explorer]

Good point. In some cases that is true (they have color changing peanut bulbs for facade lighting now), but part of the charm of Main Street is the old fashioned warmth of looking at the filament of those early Edison bulbs. LED does not yet have that same feel. I'm doing a project right now where the preference is to use LED everywhere but it's a period space. So we got permission to do LED as indirect lighting and halogen and Edison bulbs where you see them. I also learned that dimming LED is still problematic in that it flickers at some levels and or it's lifespan is greatly reduced. I wonder if there are loopholes the parks can get around on some of this non period stuff?

Yes, that's true, too. There should really be a exception for Art.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The depth of European culture is unarguable, but modern Europeans don't necessarily buy into their history and heritage very eagerly, and many can be astonishingly ignorant of their surroundings. You only have to look at a lot of modern British city architecture to realise the connection with the past was lost sometime in the 1960s. I think that's one of the reasons why the Disneyland Park is such a triumph, because it DOES remind us of how well things fitted together and how things could grow organically - like Frank Lloyd Wright and Gaudi architecture. That essential connection has been lost in too many modern instances and just because the US doesn't have quite the same cultural depth doesn't mean it can't also contribute in meaningful ways. We are currently working on a new book project that looks, in part, at small-town Ameriva, and there is a LOT to admire in places like Flint, MI; Oak Ridge, TN; Chattannooga, TN; Forsyth, GA; and Sarasota, FL. As a Brit living in the US, America certainly shouldn't sell itself short in cultural terms, and it's great to hear Eddie's comments about how one can inspire the other.

In France, it was very hard to find anyone with classical skills in traditional design drafting or even an understanding the philosophy of moldings, because it those skills are no longer considered a "core competency". Everything is drawn on computer (CAD) so traditional drawing skills are less important. Instead of classical "ogee" shapes for the moldings, circles are fused together with little or no grace and things end up looking clunky and crude. (I call it "click-torian" ) The issue here is the basic laws of good proportion are left behind. We had WDI bring out set designers in their 80's to France to lead the design draftsmen for MSUSA. We used French Ecole De Beaux Arts students to get the classical feel. It's tough to carry on your culture when so few know how to do it. Then I think cultures take their own for granted and yearn for something different and new. There are exceptions to this of course.

To make Main Street not just read as another quaint village in England or France, we deliberately "Americanized" it in a non political way. We added the "capitalism" of advertising everywhere and used images from Baseball and art from Charles Gibson that were uniquely American. The stained glass is all done in the Tiffany and American styles, etc. All Wallpapers were handmade in San Francisco as they were authentically American designs. We wanted a bit of a American cultural showcase using imported props, light fixtures, art, etc. We literally shipped in almost everything to make you feel like you were here. I think Europeans can sense that.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

^^All that hard work shows! The first time my wife and I walked into Main Street DLP, we were floored by the gorgeous surroundings and layers of detail. Very, very nice job!

 

[HBG2]

Hello Eddie,
As one of the guilty parties in feeding speculation at Micechat about the Jean Lafitte mega-theme, I'd like to help put it all back in perspective over there if I can. I know this isn't your favorite topic, but what I'm after is clarification, since various comments from you and from Kevin Yee (both in his book and in various posts at MC) have left some fuzziness around the edges.

It sounds like your original idea did indeed tie together otherwise separated things under a Jean Lafitte theme. The HM and a re-themed TSI would be part of the Lafitte world. It's a little unclear to me whether you affirm or deny that POTC was also to be pulled into this orbit. I would think so, what with the "Lafitte's Landing" sign hanging out there in front of God and everything, but something in the comments cast a cloud over that. So, was POTC supposed to be part of the Lafitte theme? That's the first question.

The second thing involves the HM movie (2003). It sounds like the speculation about distinctive furnishings in the movie that ended up in both POTC and in HM is just a case of getting all excited about a mundane recycling of props. Is that your view because you didn't have anything remotely like that in your plans, or have your friends at WDI specifically debunked this one? The reason I ask is that it doesn't sound as if you are aware that they made use of your concept in the published background story they put together for the movie. Here's a page:

Ambrose Gracey knew Jean Lafitte, and he had a secret tunnel from a crypt next to his mansion. That's obviously borrowed from your concept. This didn't make it into the finished movie anywhere, but I wondered why the HM movie team was springboarding off your Lafitte idea. Maybe they just thought it added some incidental color to the tale but had no further significance. Did you know anything about this?

The third thing is the Andrew Jackson stuff, which it is pretty clear you think is without any basis. I speculated that it wasn't part of any formal plan that so much of his stuff ended up in the HM attic, and it certainly wasn't aimed at the public under any circumstances, but it was either (1) pure coincidence that AJ is so intimately tied in with the Lafitte story; or (2) not quite so pure a coincidence. I speculated that some one or other at DL who is familiar with your Lafitte concept, and likes it, chose to recycle a disproportionate amount of AJ's effects to the HM attic just for the jollies. The theory here being that most Imagineers are shameless Disney geeks and may sometimes do little inside jokes just because it gives them a creative buzz or something. Call it a private tribute to your lost idea. Is that pretty far-fetched?

Last, it sounds like much of the debunk is aimed at any notion that there still remains a big, secret plan to unleash mega-Lafitte on an unsuspecting public. When you refer to friends at WDI denying the rumors, is that specifically what you're talking about?

Sorry for the long post. I really do want to get a clearer, sharper picture before I do my mea culpas over there!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Question for Eddie...

Has a official cannon script for HM ever been written even if it's just for the Imagineers?

 

[HMF]

Question for Eddie...

Has a official cannon script for HM ever been written even if it's just for the Imagineers?

No.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

No.

I know you WANT to be in WDI, but... I think Eddie would know.


If it's a flat out no, again, I'm a bit surprised. WDI usually creates some sort of backstory for everything.

 

[flynnibus]

They could use LEDs that mimic the effect.:shrug:

The beauty of the old lights is the control over the color (temperature) of the light and of intensity. Color is an extremely controled and studied aspect of the set designs. And of course, there is no color without light. Different light changes how colors look.

Changing all of Main Street for instance to LEDs blindly.. would dramatically change the color and feel of the set.

Ever notice how different an office room looks when you open the curtains? It's not just the amount of light that matters - it's the light temperature. Sunlight is dramatically different from flurescent lights and will actually change the color of the space to the keen observer.

LEDs can not have any arbitrary light temperature... and you can't just use a different filament to get a different range either. They are extremely limited compared to incandecent lights.

The lighting changes dramatically change existing work.. and present all new challenges to new designs. I presume that is more to what Mr. Sotto was refering - the impact on their artistic side of the craft.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

Last, it sounds like much of the debunk is aimed at any notion that there still remains a big, secret plan to unleash mega-Lafitte on an unsuspecting public. When you refer to friends at WDI denying the rumors, is that specifically what you're talking about?
Sorry for the long post. I really do want to get a clearer, sharper picture before I do my mea culpas over there!

I can tell you are passionate about story! It's a good thing. Remember that it's been ten years since I actually worked there, so all of this is speculation and informed by a bit of rubbing shoulders with my old alums.

My bet is that no one put that much thought into it being a "mega theme" of any kind. (I did used to put stuff in that was inside or cool but this was not one of them.) Being that we are representing the golden age of New Orleans anyway (when those characters lived) it lends itself to the mega theme assumption. As you point out, I got the Lafitte inspiration from the sign above the landing on POTC, and the historic aspect of a real island right across from New Orleans where he traded. That informed the notion of incorporating TSI. Yoiu also know that whatever was built after I left probably was not a response to what I proposed. The HM stuff I had no part of, and never was connected to, and my guess is that they got free props and used it without any deeper thought and were likely more focused on the bride/wedding theme. Would it be cool to have an overarching theme? Sure. I like big ideas.

 

[HMF]

I know you WANT to be in WDI, but... I think Eddie would know.


If it's a flat out no, again, I'm a bit surprised. WDI usually creates some sort of backstory for everything.

The only backstory is you don't see the ghost's at first ' Leota conjures them and then you see the ghosts. That is basicaly it.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

The lighting changes dramatically change existing work.. and present all new challenges to new designs. I presume that is more to what Mr. Sotto was refering - the impact on their artistic side of the craft.

Yes they do.

 

[yankspy]

We need more culture here. Seriously.


Exactly.

They could use LEDs that mimic the effect.:shrug:

We have it. It's just that no one pays attention to it.

In France, it was very hard to find anyone with classical skills in traditional design drafting or even an understanding the philosophy of moldings, because it those skills are no longer considered a "core competency". Everything is drawn on computer (CAD) so traditional drawing skills are less important. Instead of classical "ogee" shapes for the moldings, circles are fused together with little or no grace and things end up looking clunky and crude. (I call it "click-torian" ) The issue here is the basic laws of good proportion are left behind. We had WDI bring out set designers in their 80's to France to lead the design draftsmen for MSUSA. We used French Ecole De Beaux Arts students to get the classical feel. It's tough to carry on your culture when so few know how to do it. Then I think cultures take their own for granted and yearn for something different and new. There are exceptions to this of course.

To make Main Street not just read as another quaint village in England or France, we deliberately "Americanized" it in a non political way. We added the "capitalism" of advertising everywhere and used images from Baseball and art from Charles Gibson that were uniquely American. The stained glass is all done in the Tiffany and American styles, etc. All Wallpapers were handmade in San Francisco as they were authentically American designs. We wanted a bit of a American cultural showcase using imported props, light fixtures, art, etc. We literally shipped in almost everything to make you feel like you were here. I think Europeans can sense that.

Very true. I had the privilege of knowing a sculptor who also did stone work on the National Cathedral here in D.C. It took him years to master the craft simply because he had to look high and low for someone to teach him.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

The only backstory is you don't see the ghost's at first ' Leota conjures them and then you see the ghosts. That is basicaly it.

:shrug::lol:

We have it. It's just that no one pays attention to it.

Very true. I had the privilege of knowing a sculptor who also did stone work on the National Cathedral here in D.C. It took him years to master the craft simply because he had to look high and low for someone to teach him.

True. Perhaps that's what I meant?:lol:


Being in Miami....It does things to you!:lol:

*needs to move NORTH*

 

[Eddie Sotto]

:shrug::lol:


True. Perhaps that's what I meant?:lol:


Being in Miami....It does things to you!:lol:

*needs to move NORTH*

Funny thing is, isn't Miami is a good example of "preserving ones culture" with the whole Art Deco district of South Beach? Not being from there, I love that area! It's like a 1939 time capsule and that in itself is a big attraction so it must pay to preserve. I know there are regulations about color, neon, and keeping it all in tune with itself and it seems to be working.

 

[The Conundrum]

I know you WANT to be in WDI, but... I think Eddie would know.


If it's a flat out no, again, I'm a bit surprised. WDI usually creates some sort of backstory for everything.

HMF and HBG2 know more about the Haunted Mansion then Eddie does. I have seen their posts and passion for the parks at Micechat.
The Haunted Mansion thread they have there is legendary.

 

[automation85]

LED follow-up

I feel that LEDs have been greatly underestimated. CFLs are garbage, both in the quality of light and the safety of having Mercury floating around in the hands of the public. LEDs come in a wide range of colors and can be combined and run through simple programs to recreate many effects that would require a wide range of older systems to accomplish (not just christmas lights, which tend to be a bit too dayglow-esque for me).

Yes, you won't see a physical filament...but you also don't see a physical flame in PotC. There are ways to make the viewer believe that a filament is actually in a glass orb, if they really want to make it appear so (think orange painted, coiled wire with perfect lighting). I'm not arguing that this will be a cheap replacement. But with the fact that LEDs last about 10x longer than incandescent bulbs, I see this as being a great opportunity to show the world how creative art designers work around a seemingly impossible setback and come out ahead.:shrug:

 

[Eddie Sotto]

HMF and HBG2 know more about the Haunted Mansion then Eddie does. I have seen their posts and passion for the parks at Micechat.
The Haunted Mansion thread they have there is legendary.

Agree. I've read that thread. All I can comment on is my own involvement with the Island and my sense as to what is intentional. And of course the more you know, the more there is to speculate on.

 

[Eddie Sotto]

I feel that LEDs have been greatly underestimated. CFLs are garbage, both in the quality of light and the safety of having Mercury floating around in the hands of the public. LEDs come in a wide range of colors and can be combined and run through simple programs to recreate many effects that would require a wide range of older systems to accomplish (not just christmas lights, which tend to be a bit too dayglow-esque for me).

Yes, you won't see a physical filament...but you also don't see a physical flame in PotC. There are ways to make the viewer believe that a filament is actually in a glass orb, if they really want to make it appear so (think orange painted, coiled wire with perfect lighting). I'm not arguing that this will be a cheap replacement. But with the fact that LEDs last about 10x longer than incandescent bulbs, I see this as being a great opportunity to show the world how creative art designers work around a seemingly impossible setback and come out ahead.:shrug:

No question, but IMHO LED as a product is still in it's infancy (as to it's lifespan under heated conditions and reliability when dimmed (flickering). I think it needs a few years under it's belt before I'm jumping into it head first. If I can legally use a perfect reproduction on an Edison bulb then I'm gonna do that, and use LED for indirect lighting or other areas as long as the color temperature can be consistent with the Edisons.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Funny thing is, isn't Miami is a good example of "preserving ones culture" with the whole Art Deco district of South Beach? Not being from there, I love that area! It's like a 1939 time capsule and that in itself is a big attraction so it must pay to preserve. I know there are regulations about color, neon, and keeping it all in tune with itself and it seems to be working.

In that respect, one thousand times yes. However that's just a very tiny area.


In the respect of AMERICAN History, and the arts, and the sciences, heck no.:lol: Our Philharmonic? Gone. (My uncle lost his job) Museums? Nope. It's disheartening.

 

[misterID]

St. Augustine? That's like stepping back in time. Even parts of St. Petersberg.

It depends on where you vistit in America where keeping their culture is very important. Visit Charleston and Savannah, also. Austin Texas. Even parts of Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville and Chattanooga.