Downtown Disney update

[DCLcruiser]

We do not disagree. I just am of the opinion a dance club is a bad fit for DTD. BTW Bongos has dancing.

I didn't realize as the WDW website does not mention dancing, just the theme. Atlantic Dance Hall is the only venue that is explicitly branded and advertised for dancing. I'll have to check out Bongos.

I like the idea a lot of a dance club exclusive to WDW guests. However locating it at DTD is not the ideal IMO. Perhaps if they add a hotel down the line where it could be located away from the mixed use areas it might work. Or at the boardwalk.

I always remember PI being open to all guests, but 21+ to enter the buildings. It should 21+ OR guests w/ a room key or days ticket. Keep out the local kids from the PI area.

I know Disney World holds it own in Orlando, but if you want to entice more young-adults who may be swayed to go to USO for the "thrill rides," it would help to give them a nightlife that is better than CityWalk or downtown Orlando. Keep the $$$ on the grounds, and give the 21+ crowd a place to go out at night that has bars, clubs, etc.

Disney could really work the theming at a number of clubs. They have done a decent job on the cruise ships.

Outdoor lounge that has a Caribbean theme
An ultra lounge with a dress code
A pool hall/sports bar style
Country music venue (Maybe HoB does this?)
...oh and sure, Adventurers Club.

 

[DCLcruiser]

Pleasure Island was a financial failure. The Adventures Club was a financial failure. Why should they bring something back to appease a handful of jerks that will complain and hate on Disney no matter what? They should be finding ways to use the space to make money. They shouldn't be dolling out nostalgia for manchildren that worship things that the general public stopped caring about eons ago.

PI failed because it wasn't run properly. I am pretty sure that bars/clubs are a multi-million dollar industry. If you have people ages 21-40 at WDW they will probably want something to do after 10pm besides getting ready for AM magical hours. If it was marketed properly, the bars/clubs run well it would be a popular place. People on vacation will spend a LOT on alcohol.

 

[Tim_4]

This issue addressed here:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/the-guests-that-disney-does-not-want.840442/

 

[DCLcruiser]

Some of us "local trash" would like to point out that some of you "tourist trash" aren't the most desirable companions for a night out either.

What a horribly offensive thing to say.

This issue addressed here:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/the-guests-that-disney-does-not-want.840442/

I think you took what I said too literally. I don't mean to say that all locals are trash. I meant keep out the type of "trash" that normally hangs around malls late at night making them unsafe for the general public. The type of people who are bored and are looking to start trouble and get into fights. I don't want the Police at WDW, ever. I am sure you know who I am talking about.

Local, paying customers who have a love for Disney and are looking for a safe, fun and entertaining place to spend an evening, by all means come on by. Frankly, the locals will keep the dress code and standards higher compared to vacationers in khakis shorts and a goofy t-shirt.

If you really thought I meant that all locals were trash I am sorry.

 

[Tim_4]

I think you took what I said too literally. I don't mean to say that all locals are trash. I meant keep out the type of "trash" that normally hangs around malls late at night making them unsafe for the general public. The type of people who are bored and are looking to start trouble and get into fights. I don't want the Police at WDW, ever. I am sure you know who I am talking about.

Local, paying customers who have a love for Disney and are looking for a safe, fun and entertaining place to spend an evening, by all means come on by. Frankly, the locals will keep the dress code and standards higher compared to vacationers in khakis shorts and a goofy t-shirt.

If you really thought I meant that all locals were trash I am sorry.

You meant the "Universal people", right?

 

[DCLcruiser]

You meant the "Universal people", right?

Maybe Six Flags...

 

[Tim_4]

Maybe Six Flags...

Apologies for jumping on your post. With your explanation I know exactly what you're talking about. AMC 24 happens to be my "local" movie theater and the shenanigans at Downtown Disney are bad enough WITHOUT clubs just because there is no admission charge to keep people who are just looking to mess around out.

That being said, DTD is NOTHING compared to City Walk. I won't go there under any circumstances. The outfits the 14-year-old girls wear are honestly pretty shocking. It makes me look forward to the day I have a daughter so I can forbid her from doing stuff lol.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Disney should stay with what they know.

Disney knows how to run nightclubs. They did it very, very well for 16 years. Won't rehash history again but we all know what happened when they opened up the private island to everyone.

 

[DCLcruiser]

Disney knows how to run nightclubs. They did it very, very well for 16 years. Won't rehash history again but we all know what happened when they opened up the private island to everyone.

I think the only way to do it is to limit who can access PI by either paying for admission (just to walk in the gate, not just to enter a club) OR by showing that you are a park guest (room key or hopper pass).

The rest of DTD can be open to the public as a sort of outdoor mall/restaurant area. Of course a way around PI would need to be built, but I am sure it wouldn't be too hard.

 

[kashmir]

I'm fairly certain the expansion plan (at least the one hinted at on this site before) involved additional parking being constructed, possibly in the form of a parking structure.

Personally, I really wish someone would come along and just champion a clear direction here and get something done. I'm sure it could get done if the right person were in the right place at the right time. (Do 3 rights make a wrong?)

Three rights make a triangle! ;-)

 

[Mouse Detective]

PI failed because it wasn't run properly. I am pretty sure that bars/clubs are a multi-million dollar industry. If you have people ages 21-40 at WDW they will probably want something to do after 10pm besides getting ready for AM magical hours. If it was marketed properly, the bars/clubs run well it would be a popular place. People on vacation will spend a LOT on alcohol.

When they opened it up to everyone it took the mystique away that the $25 admission charge previously justified. It also forced them to take down the band stages otherwise the freeloaders got to watch at no cost. Ditto the midnight fireworks. They quit investing profits back into the product and things got stale. And most important, they quit advertising PI. Yes, adult guests want nightlife.

DTD circa early 00s = win
TDO circa early 00s - "get 3rd parties to pay"
TDO mid 00s + remove entry control = bad news
TDO mid late 00s - PI is too rough. We need to close it.
PI late 00s - closed = TDO oops...
PI early 10's - still closed but they won't admit anything is wrong!

Marni, I've updated your chronological history.

 

[John]

You know the whole thing is a darn shame.....a shame that every single thread about DTD inevitably turns to a discussion about PI. Dont get me wrong, I understand why. Some people say it is very few people who care. Me? I dont think so. Also since its closeing (going on 4 yrs) there basically a whole new generation of guest. Guest that never knew what PI was in the early days. To say PI was not profitable is factually wrong. There is no use going into the history of PI again.....again.....and again. We all know in the hallow grounds of WDWMagic there is tons of post that this issue is discussed.

Thing is there are a few posters around here that do have some knowledge of what TDO has in mind for the entire area. IMO as I have said before they need to hit this one out of the park. The bottom line is that DTD has slowly been losing its "uniqueness" Starabilia is gone, Magic shop is gone, PI is gone, Give us something unique, Give us something people will flock to. Something that makes us say WOW. Yes on most days the area around the Disneystore and Lego's is packed but no one can deny that something is missing.There is a void there. A gapeing hole. Fill it already.

 

[Tim_4]

Thing is there are a few posters around here that do have some knowledge of what TDO has in mind for the entire area. IMO as I have said before they need to hit this one out of the park. The bottom line is that DTD has slowly been losing its "uniqueness" Starabilia is gone, Magic shop is gone, PI is gone, Give us something unique, Give us something people will flock to. Something that makes us say WOW. Yes on most days the area around the Disneystore and Lego's is packed but no one can deny that something is missing.There is a void there. A gapeing hole. Fill it already.

One of the difficulties with Downtown Disney is the very nature of working with operating participants. For example, there was a band who played at House of Blues a couple of years ago that had video of topless women that played on the video boards behind the stage. Disney got word of this before the concert and made them change the show. There are a lot of challenges when it comes to maintaining the quality, consistency, and family friendly nature of Disney when Disney isn't the one operating these spaces. Finding operators who will comply with Disney's requirements AND pay the rent at DTD is difficult.

 

[Jim Handy]

^Or Disney can suck it up and operate their own establishments at Downtown Disney. A considerable portion of Marketplace is run by Disney, PI was nearly 100% Disney and West Side has a couple Disney businesses. That way they have complete control over every aspect of the individual establishments. And they aren't left waiting for tenants for vacant buildings.

PI worked well, and was almost entirely Disney run. Until they thought they had a better plan.

 

[Rob562]

Wasn't one of the plans (or perhaps armchair Imagineering) to "fix" DTD and PI to expand into the parking lot between T-Rex and Planet Hollywood with shops and stuff to create a viable alternate route around PI so they can make PI a ticketed venue again?

With the apparent success of Buena Vista Street at DCA and its streetcars, perhaps they could create DTD's version of the streetcars to give an additional transportation option from one end of DTD to the other. (Bypassing PI and its big hill would allow the streetcars)

They also need to advertise the water taxis better. I'm sure many Guests don't know they can take them from one end of DTD to the other.

More transportation options within DTD would allow them to consolidate parking at the West End, where there's much more unused parking space available.

-Rob

 

[menamechris]

Wasn't one of the plans (or perhaps armchair Imagineering) to "fix" DTD and PI to expand into the parking lot between T-Rex and Planet Hollywood with shops and stuff to create a viable alternate route around PI so they can make PI a ticketed venue again?

With the apparent success of Buena Vista Street at DCA and its streetcars, perhaps they could create DTD's version of the streetcars to give an additional transportation option from one end of DTD to the other.

I hope a plan like this is what is being worked on. Because if we are honest - a "freebie" from Disney isn't going to be much of anything. They need to be able to make money off of it. As someone pointed out earlier - it was when PI was gated that it was a true experience (fireworks and all)... When you take profit out of the equation, you can't expect Disney to deliver an amazing product - and they wouldn't want to...

 

[John]

One of the difficulties with Downtown Disney is the very nature of working with operating participants. For example, there was a band who played at House of Blues a couple of years ago that had video of topless women that played on the video boards behind the stage. Disney got word of this before the concert and made them change the show. There are a lot of challenges when it comes to maintaining the quality, consistency, and family friendly nature of Disney when Disney isn't the one operating these spaces. Finding operators who will comply with Disney's requirements AND pay the rent at DTD is difficult.

I absolutely couldnt agree more.I personally am against that idea. I think TDO totaly misread the market on this. I think someone somewhere is sorry about the turn of events this whole fiasco PI has turned into. regardless of what, how and when the demise of PI took place the closing of PI and the now reimagineing of the area was/is costing Disney a Empress Lily load of money. Money that was lost and money now needed to reimagine the place. There were mistakes made along the way. For whatever reason poor concepts have come and gone and as much as I have faith in some of our local "insiders" ( who I find incredibly reliable) I have a hard time believeing ANYTHING is happening at DTD. I for now am left with... I will believe it....when I see it.

 

[WDW1974]

Something happening at DD?

That's funny. Any other jokes?

 

[marni1971]

^Or Disney can suck it up and operate their own establishments at Downtown Disney. A considerable portion of Marketplace is run by Disney, PI was nearly 100% Disney and West Side has a couple Disney businesses. That way they have complete control over every aspect of the individual establishments. And they aren't left waiting for tenants for vacant buildings.

PI worked well, and was almost entirely Disney run. Until they thought they had a better plan.

Quoted for truth.

 

[jt04]

Disney knows how to run nightclubs. They did it very, very well for 16 years. Won't rehash history again but we all know what happened when they opened up the private island to everyone.

I am sure you don't want to "rehash" it because it is obvious you have lost the agrgument with the folks that count. If it was a winner you would see the model repeated elsewhere by Disney. PI was not supportive of the Disney brand. Period.

And whether PI was run " very very well" is purely subjective opinion. I am certain if you ask others, especially vendors in the 'Marketplace' not to mention a large percentage of guests, you would get an entirely different take on the matter.

Done.