Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

trojanjustin

Well-Known Member
Ehhh, yes and no. The bar designation is coming directly from their liquor license the business has. They can't just start selling more food in order to stay open under the restaurant title, it's already pre-determined. If they're operating in spite of their license, that's another problem entirely.
Right, in Florida the EO is based on % of revenue from booze. In other states, its just places licensed as bars, which is anywhere that doesn't serve food on site. For example in LA, if you don't have a kitchen you could partner with a food provider (food truck) to offer meals in your venue to get around the rule.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
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It is not a bunch of BS. The new spike in infections is too recent to have a meaningful impact on hospitalizations. Give it a week or ten days. Hospitalizations will, sadly, likely catch up.
Oh man...did I miss that burner accounts entire history?

Damn.
I think one of the CDC higher ups (can’t remember the name) said that as many as 10x the confirmed number have it. It’s spreading very quickly for sure. But I think we just need to reopen and deal with it. If people feel it’s worth the risk to go to or work at a theme park, let them. It’s time to move on. If you’re in a high risk category, stay home. Very simple.
Well the problem might be that “dealing with it” may not involve operating hotels and amusement parks in any capacity.
What do you do then?

And frankly - Florida has killed the “if you’re high risk, stay home” line of attack too. Because their tests are coming from the younger groups now.
So we’re back to: you’ll kill grandma if you don’t stay home, stupid.

The stated dangers haven’t changed...sadly they may be going more to the “alarmist” extreme from March.

Ehh...cluster.

But opening/reopening aside...I’m not sure that is the big deal.

Two things have to happen for Disney:
1. Reopen...they have carte Blanche in Florida

2. People have to show in Adequate numbers.

They don’t control...and have probably lost 2020. I can’t imagine what it looks like...and how much worse when the fall colds and sniffles comeback...
...but it ain’t good.

Dvc always wanted the place to themselves...they may get it. If they show...right now the only dvc that’s seems locked up is the “food and wine” block. But they probably don’t know it’s been altered/wrecked already 😂
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
I think it’s interesting that Disney announced a Food and Wine festival for Epcot once they open only to have the government put a shut down to alcohol sales. I understand it’s only if it’s more then 50% of your revenue which I’m sure it’s not for Epcot......
Have you been to Epcot in the last few years during Food n' Wine...?

I'd say it's probably 80% at this point.

( hiccup )

🥴


-
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
It is not a bunch of BS. The new spike in infections is too recent to have a meaningful impact on hospitalizations. Give it a week or ten days. Hospitalizations will, sadly, likely catch up.
Hospitalizations don't lag cases like fatalities do. The reported positive is already delayed for a symptomatic patient's onset of symptoms. For tests done at hospitals there is no delay either way because the patient is already there.

Maybe you'd see a couple of days lag but this spike started long enough ago that there would be a noticeable change by now.
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
Oh man...did I miss that burner accounts entire history?

Damn.


Well the problem might be that “dealing with it” may not involve operating hotels and amusement parks in any capacity.
What do you do then?

And frankly - Florida has killed the “if you’re high risk, stay home” line of attack too. Because their tests are coming from the younger groups now.
So we’re back to: you’ll kill grandma if you don’t stay home, stupid.

The stated dangers haven’t changed...sadly they may be going more to the “alarmist” extreme from March.

Ehh...cluster.

But opening/reopening aside...I’m not sure that is the big deal.

Two things have to happen for Disney:
1. Reopen...they have carte Blanche in Florida

2. People have to show in Adequate numbers.

They don’t control...and have probably lost 2020. I can’t imagine what it looks like...and how much worse when the fall colds and sniffles comeback...
...but it ain’t good.

Dvc always wanted the place to themselves...they may get it. If they show...right now the only dvc that’s seems locked up is the “food and wine” block. But they probably don’t know it’s been altered/wrecked already 😂
And younger people resist the virus better. There are more effective treatments now (such as remdesivir).
 

Giss Neric

Well-Known Member
do you always put people in a box? doesn't help you with any credibility...
I'm just stating facts. You tend to attack based from your responses. You provide your own opinion if you are against it and not provoking other people to expand their opinions. Asking for someone's credibility in a public forum is a weak argument.
 

trojanjustin

Well-Known Member
Hospitalizations don't lag cases like fatalities do. The reported positive is already delayed for a symptomatic patient's onset of symptoms. For tests done at hospitals there is no delay either way because the patient is already there.

Maybe you'd see a couple of days lag but this spike started long enough ago that there would be a noticeable change by now.
That just isn't true. In NYC early on it was, but not now when people are paranoid and getting tested at the first sign of infection.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
And younger people resist the virus better. There are more effective treatments now (such as remdesivir).
But. Who. Do. They. Come. Into. Contact. With. ? ? ?

The problem is every easy dismissal to advocate “go places...buy stuff” has been shot down in a millisecond with the same obvious flaws for 4 months.

It’s getting beyond old.
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
That just isn't true. In NYC early on it was, but not now when people are paranoid and getting tested at the first sign of infection.
Correct...that isn’t true.

But we have a few specialists in bad arguments these days.

My PSA: just because you annoy people with bad info to the point they ignore you, doesn’t make your stance true.
An ignored fool is still a fool.
 

MrMcDuck

Premium Member
I think one of the CDC higher ups (can’t remember the name) said that as many as 10x the confirmed number have it. It’s spreading very quickly for sure. But I think we just need to reopen and deal with it. If people feel it’s worth the risk to go to or work at a theme park, let them. It’s time to move on. If you’re in a high risk category, stay home. Very simple.
If you could entirely identify and separate the 60+ and <60 yet diabetic, immunocompromised, etc. from the rest of the world, then maybe it would indeed by that simple, but those of high risk staying home doesn't fix the problem if there is still interaction between the high risk and the others. Little Johnny hits the clubs, does a little bumping and grinding, gets some COVID-19 along with the sugar, brings it home and two weeks later Mommy is being read her last rites. Or Misty catches it while working at Universal and Daddy ends up with a permanently damaged lung. Or Grandma gets a special visit from the grandkids who come bearing a deadly gift. And so on...

What all of this discussion obviously comes down to is how many are we willing to see die in exchange for being able to have everything up and running again. There are no simple answers.
 

trojanjustin

Well-Known Member
If you could entirely identify and separate the 60+ and <60 yet diabetic, immunocompromised, etc. from the rest of the world, then maybe it would indeed by that simple, but those of high risk staying home doesn't fix the problem if there is still interaction between the high risk and the others. Little Johnny hits the clubs, does a little bumping and grinding, gets some COVID-19 along with the sugar, brings it home and two weeks later Mommy is being read her last rites. Or Misty catches it while working at Universal and Daddy ends up with a permanently damaged lung. Or Grandma gets a special visit from the grandkids who come bearing a deadly gift. And so on...

What all of this discussion obviously comes down to is how many are we willing to see die in exchange for being able to have everything up and running again. There are no simple answers.
Exactly. If this trend continues it could also easily lead to full hospitals, which is a problem both for COVID patients and anybody needing critical care. That's where you start running into issues like Italy did where doctors start deciding who should live and who should die.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
And younger people resist the virus better. There are more effective treatments now (such as remdesivir).
Despite the average age of both infection and death falling, that’s not the point.

This is the point:
But. Who. Do. They. Come. Into. Contact. With. ? ? ?

The problem is every easy dismissal to advocate “go places...buy stuff” has been shot down in a millisecond with the same obvious flaws for 4 months.

It’s getting beyond old.
 
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Millionaire2K

Active Member
If you could entirely identify and separate the 60+ and <60 yet diabetic, immunocompromised, etc. from the rest of the world, then maybe it would indeed by that simple, but those of high risk staying home doesn't fix the problem if there is still interaction between the high risk and the others. Little Johnny hits the clubs, does a little bumping and grinding, gets some COVID-19 along with the sugar, brings it home and two weeks later Mommy is being read her last rites. Or Misty catches it while working at Universal and Daddy ends up with a permanently damaged lung. Or Grandma gets a special visit from the grandkids who come bearing a deadly gift. And so on...

What all of this discussion obviously comes down to is how many are we willing to see die in exchange for being able to have everything up and running again. There are no simple answers.
OR people could take responsibility for their lives and their families lives. My Dad (72) has not seen his grand kids in 3 months.... WHY? Because I'm not an idiot, I choose not to expose him to a virus that might kill him. My family is living their lives while protecting the ones who need protecting. I also will not live in fear because of the virus. What if we never get a vaccine? then what's your plan? You gonna hide in your house for the rest of your life? I can choose to make smart decisions and to keep me and my family safe based on odds. I will wear my mask, keep social distance, don't touch my face & frequently wash my hands.

Maybe "Little Johnny" shouldn't be hitting the clubs if he's living with someone who is at risk. And maybe Misty should not go back to work if she lives with her dad and she is concerned for him. And maybe Grandma should tell her grand kids to stay the heck home. and so on....

We don't need the government telling us we all must hide inside because Little Johnny loves the strip clubs. How about Little Johnny take some personal responsibility. How about people take some personal responsibility to protect their loved ones. We don't need to close the world because little Johnny is gonna kill his family.
 
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trojanjustin

Well-Known Member
OR people could take responsibility for their lives and their families lives. My Dad (72) has not seen his grand kids in 3 months.... WHY? Because I'm not an idiot, I choose not to expose him to a virus that might kill him. My family is living their lives while protecting the ones who need protecting. I also will not live in fear because of the virus. What if we never get a vaccine? then what's your plan? You gonna hide in your house for the rest of your life? I can choose to make smart decisions and to keep me and my family safe based on odds. I will wear my mask, keep social distance, don't touch my face & frequently wash my hands.

Maybe "Little Johnny" shouldn't be hitting the clubs if he's living with someone who is at risk. And maybe Misty should not go back to work if she lives with her dad and she is concerned for him. And maybe Grandma should tell her grand kids to stay the heck home. and so on....

We don't need the government telling us we all must hide inside because Little Johnny loves the strip clubs. How about Little Johnny take some personal responsibility. How about people take some personal responsibility to protect their loved ones. We don't need to close the world because little Johnny is gonna kill his family.
65% of US adults have some condition that would leave them at greatest risk to severe COVID-19. They are all not 72 year old fathers who can shelter in place.
 

Touchdown

Well-Known Member
It says a lot about people that come down on wanting bars, theme parks and other forms of entertainment and justify that the solution is to just not interact with family members.

We clearly have different values, I personally value my family more then my entertainment and derive more pleasure from interacting with them. This is clearly why I cannot understand some of you, and why you can’t understand me. I think we as a country are about to find out which group is the majority in this country, and from all that I’ve seen lately I fear I’m in the minority.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
It says a lot about people that come down on wanting bars, theme parks and other forms of entertainment and justify that the solution is to just not interact with family members.

We clearly have different values, I personally value my family more then my entertainment and derive more pleasure from interacting with them. This is clearly why I cannot understand some of you, and why you can’t understand me. I think we as a country are about to find out which group is the majority in this country, and from all that I’ve seen lately I fear I’m in the minority.
You are not, some groups are louder than others. Take care of that family.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
That just isn't true. In NYC early on it was, but not now when people are paranoid and getting tested at the first sign of infection.
Correct...that isn’t true.

But we have a few specialists in bad arguments these days.

My PSA: just because you annoy people with bad info to the point they ignore you, doesn’t make your stance true.
An ignored fool is still a fool.
It doesn't change the fact that there is a delay from when somebody is tested to when they get the results, even if they are paranoid. Also, in Florida, the cases per day doubled from the prior steady state over two weeks ago. There was no discernible increase in hospitalizations a over a week after that happened.

How is it a "bad argument" to say that there are no signs of drastically increasing hospitalizations after drastically increased daily case counts? Because it takes away the argument that hospitals will get overwhelmed so reopenings need to be drastically rolled back?

65% of US adults have some condition that would leave them at greatest risk to severe COVID-19. They are all not 72 year old fathers who can shelter in place.
How about a breakdown of those 65% by age. Probably 90% of adults 65+ (if not more) have at least a mild version of one of these conditions. This scare tactic of trying to say to people, "there is a 65% chance YOU are at risk even though you are young" doesn't hold water because the data is so striking. If all of these adults are at risk, why is the mortality rate DRASTICALLY lower for people under 55?

In fact, assuming there is a period of immunity after recovery, it would probably be a good thing if every person under 35 got infected in the next two weeks. Then, there wouldn't be the risk of a huge segment of the population spreading it to vulnerable people. Queue the "long term effects" arguments now which are impossible to know since the virus hasn't been around for anything close to a "long term" yet. If there are then a couple of hundred million people in the world are going to have these effects since that is the real number of infected.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
It says a lot about people that come down on wanting bars, theme parks and other forms of entertainment and justify that the solution is to just not interact with family members.

We clearly have different values, I personally value my family more then my entertainment and derive more pleasure from interacting with them. This is clearly why I cannot understand some of you, and why you can’t understand me. I think we as a country are about to find out which group is the majority in this country, and from all that I’ve seen lately I fear I’m in the minority.
The point is that you can avoid bars, theme parks and other forms of entertainment if you want to interact with your family members. Other people who want to choose entertainment over family member interaction should be free to do so. It isn't an either or choice for the country as a whole. It should be an individual decision based on what is more important to you.

The thing people should absolutely not do is choose "and." If you choose entertainment (theme parks, movies, sports, etc.) then you should not also interact with older family members or younger family members who will be in contact with the older ones.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
It should be an individual decision based on what is more important to you..
To go for a walk in the middle of nowhere, yes. To interact with a staff member be it in a theme park or theatre? No. To be an unknown carrier and inadvertently infect someone else afterwards? No.

There’s just too many variables. As we’re seeing.
 
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