Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[DVCakaCarlF]

I can find nothing in the Constitution that covers this scenario. And the Tenth Amendment makes clear that anything that is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution then becomes the purview of the states or the people. Now, I would agree that a federal mask mandate would be unconstitutional, because nowhere in the Constitution is the federal government delegated those sorts of public health powers. But I can see no reason why a state or local government cannot enforce masks as a public health matter nor how that would be unconstitutional.

And, as was pointed out, the government already mandates that we wear certain articles of clothing, such as pants.

Most of these mask mandates are issued as executive orders at the municipal or state level, and, as such, they are not enforceable by law enforcement. As soon as the “charged,” hit the courtroom, they can rip up that ticket or the judge will do it for them.

Furthermore, wearing pants is not a law, it’s a social standard. Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone sans pants.

 

[Dizneykid]

Most of these mask mandates are issued as executive orders at the municipal or state level, and, as such, they are not enforceable by law enforcement. As son as the “charged,” hit the courtroom, they can rip up that ticket or the judge will do it for them.

Furthermore, wearing pants is not a law, it’s a social standard. Businesses have the right to refuse service to anyone sans pants.

Is that how it has been going for people who refuse to quarantine when they visit out of state? I know Hawaii has become known for evicting people that violate the quarantine. I haven't heard of any charges filed or even fines when those people are sent home. Would the judges throw that out too? I thought it was against the law to prevent people from crossing state borders.

 

[legwand77]

You need to have the right connection like being an NBA player staying at the WDW bubble while playing your shortened season.

Nope, anyone can just go to CVS and get one

 

[Polkadotdress]

That article say the average time to deliver results is three to five days from when a specimen was picked up. not 7 to 10

but Florida is running an average of 3 days, still too long

You are cherry-picking data from that article, which states the 3-5 days for LabCorp, but then goes on to state "Average turnaround time for (Quest) test results right now is at least seven days, up from two to three days until several weeks ago."

And FL test returns are taking anywhere 7-10 days on average. Details here: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...test-result-wait-times-grows-florida-n1234493

"As demand for COVID-19 tests continues to rise in hard-hit Florida, so do the wait times for test results. Results can take 7 to 10 days and in some cases, even more. Nationwide, more people are testing for the virus and the turnaround time for results has increased from a couple of days to at least a week."

 

[robhedin]

How are you such a brick wall about this? Opening the economy is not doing what you seem to think it is. Layoffs are coming and there’s nothing we can do to stop them. I don’t just mean the airline industry. As soon as Disney closed their gates in March the writing was on the wall. Full Time Cast Members that have been recalled would be better off furloughed - even at the measly Florida $275/wk. They are only guaranteed 32 hours/week. That doesn’t cut it for people who rely on 40+ just to live paycheck to paycheck. Part Time Cast getting called back - they get scheduled for training and then the next week....no hours. Imagine that. That’s utter crap. There are a couple of departments with higher hourly rates that may be doing ok, but they are running skeleton crews. A lot of their colleagues are furloughed with possible layoffs coming. Cast are not getting the promised quarantine pay if they have to stay home due to a positive test or exposure. Again, utter crap.

I am rooting for Disney....I really am. I live here. I have friends that work there. I want the reopening to be successful and for them to be able to stay open. My livelihood will likely be affected down the road if they close again. So please, go to the parks and drop as much cash as possible.

As far as opening/closing, I don’t know what the answer is, but I know it’s not to come on here and repeatedly say how good things are looking or to respond to others sincerity with utter nonsense.

just a couple of points here:

you’re right- layoffs are coming, and probably in a big way. But to think that business should just keep staff furloughed is short sighted; while furloughed, the business is still paying certain benefits including healthcare. At some point they won’t be able to afford that and it turns into real layoffs. This is already happening in some businesses - and the cost to the business owner has been devastating to the point where those businesses are no more.

second point, there are several businesses here that have reopened and are having to turn away customers due to lack of staff. They’re trying to hire but they can’t get people to work. In some cases that’s because people are genuinely concerned, in others its because they’re effectively being paid to stay at home.

everyone has to make their own decisions, but the government cant provide bread and circuses forever, and business can’t survive a massively prolonged shutdown. We have to figure someway out.

 

[Heppenheimer]

You are cherry-picking data from that article, which states the 3-5 days for LabCorp, but then goes on to state "Average turnaround time for (Quest) test results right now is at least seven days, up from two to three days until several weeks ago."

And FL test returns are taking anywhere 7-10 days on average. Details here: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino...test-result-wait-times-grows-florida-n1234493

"As demand for COVID-19 tests continues to rise in hard-hit Florida, so do the wait times for test results. Results can take 7 to 10 days and in some cases, even more. Nationwide, more people are testing for the virus and the turnaround time for results has increased from a couple of days to at least a week."

Our tests are not processed locally, but at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota. As of two weeks ago, I was getting COVID results back in 24-48 hours. As of today, though, I'm still waiting on tests I ordered last week. The reason is the huge national increase in testing recently has caused a severe back-log. Not good news at all if we're even going to pretend to implement tracking and tracing.

As for the point-of-care testing that was mentioned, the sensitivity is lower than the standard PCR-based test. It has some value for situations where pre-test probability is high (ie, symptomatic disease, known positive close contact exposure), but isn't that great as a general screening tool.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

I can find nothing in the Constitution that covers this scenario. And the Tenth Amendment makes clear that anything that is not specifically mentioned in the Constitution then becomes the purview of the states or the people. Now, I would agree that a federal mask mandate would be unconstitutional, because nowhere in the Constitution is the federal government delegated those sorts of public health powers. But I can see no reason why a state or local government cannot enforce masks as a public health matter nor how that would be unconstitutional.

And, as was pointed out, the government already mandates that we wear certain articles of clothing, such as pants.

It’s an election year. Put the wearing a mask in public on the ballot and let the American people vote.

 

[SamusAranX]

Meter maids, hello 1965

We still have meter maids in Florida, mainly at the beaches.

 

[DisneyCane]

you can get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt, I dont see why not wearing a mask should be any different

The difference is that there are laws that say you have to wear a seatbelt. There is currently no law that says you have to wear a mask. Emergency orders are not laws. Cities and counties can not pass their own laws. The state legislature would have to pass a mandatory mask law and the governor would have to sign it (or veto it and be overridden) for it to be enforceable with a fine.

It would be very difficult to pass and be found constitutional because they would have to exempt people with medical conditions that make a mask detrimental to their health. Once you make an exception then everybody is not treated equally under the law.

They can enforce masks inside businesses because a business is licenced and essentially agrees to be regulated by the DPBR (in Florida, similar agency for other states just different names).

Bottom line is the government (local or state) can mandate masks be worn inside businesses and fine or shut down the business if they don't make best efforts to enforce it. The craziness that Broward county is trying to make homeowners or renters enforce masks inside private residences will not be enforceable once the "perp" goes to court.

 

[schuelma]

The difference is that there are laws that say you have to wear a seatbelt. There is currently no law that says you have to wear a mask. Emergency orders are not laws.

In Michigan at least, executive orders have the force of law.

 

[DisneyCane]

In Michigan at least, executive orders have the force of law.

In Florida they definitely do not. I'd have to research Michigan but normally executive orders can only direct enforcement and/or funding of existing laws. Otherwise you no longer have a three branch government and basically make the governor an elected dictator.

In Florida the COVID curfews being implemented wouldn't stand up in court. Curfew powers are specifically enumerated in the Florida Statutes and implementing a curfew for a health crisis is not a granted power.

 

[legwand77]

Florida numbers continue to trend down, with a massive amount of test reported 120,000+ , the positivity trend is still decreasing. Less than the last two Fridays, might hit 10% tomorrow or Monday, hope so. Hospitalizations declined as well as ED CLI admissions.

It appears the FL peak death per day so far is currently set on July 16th at 112. That number will change as more deaths are logged. It will be interesting if that peak day holds or moves forward. 14 of today's 124 reported deaths were put on that day.

Orange County positivity is down now back below 10% as expected following the trend from last few weeks again hope that continues.

 

[Jrb1979]

In Florida they definitely do not. I'd have to research Michigan but normally executive orders can only direct enforcement and/or funding of existing laws. Otherwise you no longer have a three branch government and basically make the governor an elected dictator.

In Florida the COVID curfews being implemented wouldn't stand up in court. Curfew powers are specifically enumerated in the Florida Statutes and implementing a curfew for a health crisis is not a granted power.

Our city's pass by-laws to enforce masks and social distancing. Each city has by-law officers that have been patrolling businesses and the beaches to make enforce social distancing and mask wearing.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Yes, nevermind.


I love cats. But I must watch where I step so I do not fall down the stairs and die from a preventable injury, the number 3 cause of death in the US

I will admit there are a lot of deaths being attributed to COVID...

I couldn’t help it..... this made me laugh when there’s not much to laugh about....

 

[DisneyCane]

Our city's pass by-laws to enforce masks and social distancing. Each city has by-law officers that have been patrolling businesses and the beaches to make enforce social distancing and mask wearing.

Like I said, it can be enforced in businesses. However, the business is the one that would have to be punished (at least in Florida) unless a person refused and the business asked them to leave. Then they could be arrested for trespassing.

Beaches and other government owned property like parks can be enforced also because they can set rules for people who choose to enter the property.

Where they can't be enforced for sure is in my front yard or on a private road in a neighborhood. I'd have to research about public sidewalks. My guess would be no as they provide a means of ingress and egress to homes and apartments but I can't be sure without researching.

In Florida, the Governor could override any local by-laws or emergency orders if he wanted to. In all the political rear kissing, the Southeast Florida mayors are always thanking him for letting them do what they are doing.

 

[Jedijax719]

Closing schools would not protect people from cancer unless it was proven that something in the school was causing that cancer. Likewise, for the flu (most common forms), if it got too bad at once, there would be a push to close schools. But the flu is spread out over time and is seasonal. There is also a vaccine for the most common forms. For COVID-19, without a vaccine, there were just too many cases in too short of time with a death rate that, for a while, was much higher than the flu (based on the numbers). The flu also does not go undetected without symptoms for days.

Florida numbers continue to trend down, with a massive amount of test reported 120,000+ , the positivity trend is still decreasing. Less than the last two Fridays, might hit 10% tomorrow or Monday, hope so. Hospitalizations declined as well as ED CLI admissions.

It appears the FL peak death per day so far is currently set on July 16th at 112. That number will change as more deaths are logged. It will be interesting if that peak day holds or moves forward. 14 of today's 124 reported deaths were put on that day.

Orange County positivity is down now back below 10% as expected following the trend from last few weeks again hope that continues.

Where do you get this information from?
156 deaths on July 16.
173 deaths on July 23.
Deaths have been over 130 since July 21.
If there is a peak and then it levels off after that, it does not mean it's decreasing. A plateau can last for a very long time. And if schools reopen, the numbers will continue to increase on a daily basis.

Are Florida schools offering a virtual/face-to-face choice? That's been mandated in Texas.

 

[legwand77]

Where do you get this information from?
156 deaths on July 16.
173 deaths on July 23.
Deaths have been over 130 since July 21.
If there is a peak and then it levels off after that, it does not mean it's decreasing. A plateau can last for a very long time. And if schools reopen, the numbers will continue to increase on a daily basis.

Are Florida schools offering a virtual/face-to-face choice? That's been mandated in Texas.

From the Florida Department of Health daily report

Florida COVID19 Case Line Data

Case line data for COVID-19 confirmed cases in the state of Florida, updated daily.

open-fdoh.hub.arcgis.com

The numbers you are listing is just when they "report" the deaths or enter into the system. For example in today's numbers the 124 deaths are spread over the past two months, one death of the 124 reported today is actually from May 28th. Most occurred over the past two weeks. Only 1 of the 124 reported today was from yesterday. The total from yesterday (one death) will obviously go up as more are added. over the next week, months

 

[legwand77]

Reports are saying crowds are definitely increasing in the parks, wait times going up as well, guessing people are getting more comfortable with how good Disney is handling things.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

My wife had 15 clients from July until September with Disney vacations. The last called this morning to cancel. 15 cancellations. 2 canceled for October already with a few more that are waiting. Nov. And Dec. no cancellations yet. I’m thinking it’s going to be very light crowds for a long time. Bad time to have a job like hers.

 

[RaiseTheShields]

just a couple of points here:

you’re right- layoffs are coming, and probably in a big way. But to think that business should just keep staff furloughed is short sighted; while furloughed, the business is still paying certain benefits including healthcare. At some point they won’t be able to afford that and it turns into real layoffs. This is already happening in some businesses - and the cost to the business owner has been devastating to the point where those businesses are no more.

second point, there are several businesses here that have reopened and are having to turn away customers due to lack of staff. They’re trying to hire but they can’t get people to work. In some cases that’s because people are genuinely concerned, in others its because they’re effectively being paid to stay at home.

everyone has to make their own decisions, but the government cant provide bread and circuses forever, and business can’t survive a massively prolonged shutdown. We have to figure someway out.

I don’t disagree. I’m not advocating for a prolonged shutdown or even a short lockdown. That ship has sailed and was mismanaged by opening up too quickly and not doing simple things that could protect us.

Furloughs are going to turn into real layoffs regardless. Not trying to be dismissive of the needs of a business but I was mostly speaking from an employee POV.

I’ve not seen any business turn away customers due to staffing. Not saying you’re wrong. I believe you and don’t care enough to ask for a source. It doesn’t change the fact that the poster I replied to completely missed the point.

Speaking of missing the point, calling government support “bread and circuses” is degrading. Furlough was not a choice an employee had in March. Layoffs will also not be a choice.