Do you think that Disney world will reclose its gates due to the rising number of COVID cases in Florida and around the country?

[Miss Bella]

People shouldn't be traveling right now. There is a reason some states are putting in quarantine rules. Its to make people not travel. I look at where I live and they really want people to just travel within their own province.

We already know you’re a travel shamer. Did you read the part about not being able to change a strangers mind on social media? I think that was the biggest takeaway from this article. All this back and forth and you haven’t moved the needle at all.

 

[Miss Bella]

People need to make decisions for themselves. Honestly if everyone does the right things, wears the masks where they should, keep their hands clean, traveling can work. We now are debating a trip we have had on the books for a few months now to Arizona(the number USED to look good). My thinking is, we try to do our best to control what we can. If we plan to go somewhere and we get there and the conditions dont look right, like not enough space, too many people without masks we move on. The plane worries me the most as if people are not following protocols we can't just get up and leave.

Are you going to the Grand Canyon?

 

[legwand77]

People need to make decisions for themselves. Honestly if everyone does the right things, wears the masks where they should, keep their hands clean, traveling can work. We now are debating a trip we have had on the books for a few months now to Arizona(the number USED to look good). My thinking is, we try to do our best to control what we can. If we plan to go somewhere and we get there and the conditions dont look right, like not enough space, too many people without masks we move on. The plane worries me the most as if people are not following protocols we can't just get up and leave.

I have traveled on many flights over the past few months, if you stick with the major airlines, compliance is 100%, plus cabin air is filtered at pretty much hospital levels every few minutes.

Also i don't think anyone here is claiming to do any different, with regards to wearing masks, washing hands.

 

[legwand77]

We already know you’re a travel shamer. Did you read the part about not being able to change a strangers mind on social media? I think that was the biggest takeaway from this article. All this back and forth and you haven’t moved the needle at all.

at least he is finding things funny, so the poster is getting some entertainment out of it.

 

[donaldtoo]

People need to make decisions for themselves. Honestly if everyone does the right things, wears the masks where they should, keep their hands clean, traveling can work. We now are debating a trip we have had on the books for a few months now to Arizona(the number USED to look good). My thinking is, we try to do our best to control what we can. If we plan to go somewhere and we get there and the conditions dont look right, like not enough space, too many people without masks we move on. The plane worries me the most as if people are not following protocols we can't just get up and leave.

Yea, I wouldn’t fly right now if the airlines paid me.

 

[legwand77]

You can choose to view however you want, but here are the facts from Arizona today. All from the state dashboard.

Covid like ER admissions, might not be flat

Overall hospitalizations, pretty flat for the past three weeks

Graphs are roughly the same for TX as well.

 

[BrianLo]

You can choose to view however you want, but here are the facts from Arizona today. All from the state dashboard.


View attachment 484607

Covid like ER admissions, might not be flat

View attachment 484608

Overall hospitalizations, pretty flat for the past three weeks

View attachment 484609

Graphs are roughly the same for TX as well.

You seem awfully intent on misconstruing the "flatten the curve policy" from just showing us the peak of an aggressive curve. That state has reached one of the highest daily per-capita rates of new cases... in the world...in the entirety of this Pandemic. Yes there is an upper limit. That doesn't actually mean the curve was flattened.

Deaths continue to escalate in a similar fashion in both of these states. Now conveniently no longer a statistic of interest. Please stop cherry picking metrics and present them all, or don't.

One or two metrics can always be spun as looking 'good' in the moment. By virtue they all ebb and flow and peak at different time points. But they all need to be simultaneously under control.

 

[legwand77]

You seem awfully intent on misconstruing the "flatten the curve policy" from just showing us the peak of an aggressive curve. That state has reached one of the highest daily per-capita rates of new cases... in the world...in the entirety of this Pandemic. Yes there is an upper limit. That doesn't actually mean the curve was flattened.

Deaths continue to escalate in a similar fashion in both of these states. Now conveniently no longer a statistic of interest. Please stop cherry picking metrics and present them all, or don't.

One or two metrics can always be spun as looking 'good' in the moment. By virtue they all ebb and flow and peak at different time points. But they all need to be simultaneously under control.

Not misconstruction anything. So if you think the fact hospitalizations staying flat and/or decreasing over the past few weeks is being spun "good"? If that is the case sounds like you don't think they are good going down, are you wanting them go up? I highly doubt that.

Funny accusing me a cherry picking data without looking at the whole picture, ok. Guess you haven't been following along. As far as deaths, and as others have been saying all along, deaths lag, and with the hopitializations and admissions flattening ....

 

[oceanbreeze77]

You seem awfully intent on misconstruing the "flatten the curve policy" from just showing us the peak of an aggressive curve.

the new spin has arrived.

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Tightening up the gaps

 

[BrianLo]

Not misconstruction anything. So if you think the fact hospitalizations staying flat and/or decreasing over the past few weeks is being spun "good"? If that is the case sounds like you don't think they are good going down, are you wanting them go up? I highly doubt that.

Funny accusing me a cherry picking data without looking at the whole picture, ok. Guess you haven't been following along. As far as deaths, and as others have been saying all along, deaths lag, and with the hopitializations and admissions flattening ....

Good was in quotations because you are selecting data that is actually totally out of context and high to begin with. Those case counts for example are extremely high per capita.

Elective proceedures and admissions have again been delayed. It is of course good that total hospitalizations are under control though due to capacity stop gaps. But that does not make the entire situation good. COVID admissions are actively still preventing access to care.

The problem is they oversimplified this to the public like only one or two things matter. I want every single metric to be low AND stable or declining.

Low case numbers, low prevalence, low community transmission, low hospitalizations, low deaths. High number of testing. Solid contact tracing. High participation and buy in by the public and officials. All under high resumption of economic activity, critical infrastructure (school, health care) and reasonable public mobility without tanking those other metrics.

If you can demonstrate that a location is doing that - yes I will celebrate gladly. There are of course many great examples now outside the US.

Deaths have unnecessarily increased. There is nothing to celebrate when they peak. There is nothing to celebrate when they rise. There is almost nothing to really celebrate when they decline. Only when they stop.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Are you going to the Grand Canyon?

Sedona, Grand Canyon(scored the Thunderbird, and was at Kachina before which I loved) and a pretty much self contained resort in Scottsdale. ..was the plan. But again we really are thinking this out. We used airline miles to book which we can get back so we aren't out anything to cancel, though the kids were psyched because we were flying first class there(coach back) and they know that probably won't ever be the case again lol,(was relatively cheap to do).
But we have a travel trailer and might just do that for a few days and also stay at a decent resort that is drivable from our home.

I have traveled on many flights over the past few months, if you stick with the major airlines, compliance is 100%, plus cabin air is filtered at pretty much hospital levels every few minutes.

Also i don't think anyone here is claiming to do any different, with regards to wearing masks, washing hands.

This is encouraging, I will for sure share with my wife this info.

 

[legwand77]

Good was in quotations because you are selecting data that is actually totally out of context and high to begin with. Those case counts for example are extremely high per capita.

Elective proceedures and admissions have again been delayed. It is of course good that total hospitalizations are under control though due to capacity stop gaps. But that does not make the entire situation good. COVID admissions are actively still preventing access to care.

The problem is they oversimplified this to the public like only one or two things matter. I want every single metric to be low AND stable or declining.

Low case numbers, low prevalence, low community transmission, low hospitalizations, low deaths. High number of testing. Solid contact tracing. High participation and buy in by the public and officials. All under high resumption of economic activity, critical infrastructure (school, health care) and reasonable public mobility without tanking those other metrics.

If you can demonstrate that a location is doing that - yes I will celebrate gladly. There are of course many great examples now outside the US.

Deaths have unnecessarily increased. There is nothing to celebrate when they peak. There is nothing to celebrate when they rise. There is almost nothing to really celebrate when they decline. Only when they stop.

Sure I agree with most all of that, other than I doubt we will ever get to zero deaths, wish we could,but not realistic compared to every other corona virus.

All I was sharing is that it is good news that hospitalizations and emergency rooms were flattening and declining and that data point is good news

I have never said the situation is great it Arizona or anywhere, no matter how much others try to say that. I have repeatedly said that.

When I post a good news data point, some posters immediately go nuts and start accusing me of spin and even outright lying. Or having some agenda, (what type they never said). It amazes me how posting the hospitalizations leveling off in one state is not good news. Of course things are bad, we are in a pandemic, hospitals are stressed in certain areas of the country, that is very bad news, never have I once denied that. This thread and others constantly and rabidly share the bad news, out of context single data points in most cases, but also overall trends etc. and that is fine and should be done, but any slight good news, immediately get jumped on as spin and even been called as a liar. Some have even said I plagiarized my opinion, however that would happen.

 

[havoc315]

You can choose to view however you want, but here are the facts from Arizona today. All from the state dashboard.


View attachment 484607

Covid like ER admissions, might not be flat

View attachment 484608

Overall hospitalizations, pretty flat for the past three weeks

View attachment 484609

Graphs are roughly the same for TX as well.

Yes — Arizona is indeed flattening, at a very high level. Premature to say Texas or Florida are flattening. Georgia and other places are rising.

So not sure if your point?
Arizona went through some massive increases. Then put in more restrictions, and curve flattened. Still not nearly enough.

So the logic is Florida needs more restrictions?

 

[legwand77]

Yes — Arizona is indeed flattening, at a very high level. Premature to say Texas or Florida are flattening. Georgia and other places are rising.

So not sure if your point?
Arizona went through some massive increases. Then put in more restrictions, and curve flattened. Still not nearly enough.

So the logic is Florida needs more restrictions?

Exactly, pretty much what I said. and all my point was/is we might be seeing the beginning of the flattening of the curve, as Arizona has started to see. That is all, nothing more nothing less.

No denying Arizona is high and went through increases, very obvious, and hospitals stressed. said that in my post "especially Arizona (hospitals were even more stressed there)"

my post from earlier

We might be seeing the “flattening of the curve“ in effect, from when Florida opened, especially in South Florida. Hospitals in some areas are stressed without a doubt but are still being able to handle it and not be overwehlmed. Other states that are about a week ahead or so like Texas and especially Arizona (hospitals were even more stressed there) are already seeing the flattening and some decline. Hope that is the case for Florida and there is not any strong indicators why it wouldn’t. Covid like illnesses admissions are already dropping statewide in Florida.

 

[disdonald]

People shouldn't be traveling right now. There is a reason some states are putting in quarantine rules. Its to make people not travel. I look at where I live and they really want people to just travel within their own province.

Just wait until that little one in your picture grows up and is all by itself 1200 miles away, working from home and just moved there recently for their job. Your opinion may change a little about traveling to see your son/daughter to make sure they are ok. We did it recently and Frontier was very strict as well as everywhere else we went. Just saying that there may be reasons to travel and I would not dismiss travel the way you stated it.

 

[Captain Neo]

It isn't even about "travel shaming" wth that is. Why would you A) give your hard earned dough to the modern walt disney company when the parks are a former shell of what they were 20 years ago and B) why would you go now when a good chunk of rides, shows and attractions are closed, there is minimal maintenance going on so you see lots of broken effects, and half the amenities have been taken away. Plus all the rules and resarvation systems sounds as nightmarish as dealing with the TSA at a crowded airport.

Until Disney gets back to core values and restores the parks to their former glory just stop going.

 

[Miss Bella]

Sedona, Grand Canyon(scored the Thunderbird, and was at Kachina before which I loved) and a pretty much self contained resort in Scottsdale. ..was the plan. But again we really are thinking this out. We used airline miles to book which we can get back so we aren't out anything to cancel, though the kids were psyched because we were flying first class there(coach back) and they know that probably won't ever be the case again lol,(was relatively cheap to do).
But we have a travel trailer and might just do that for a few days and also stay at a decent resort that is drivable from our home.

This is encouraging, I will for sure share with my wife this info.

None of the places you’re going are very populated.

 

[Miss Bella]

It isn't even about "travel shaming" wth that is. Why would you A) give your hard earned dough to the modern walt disney company when the parks are a former shell of what they were 20 years ago and B) why would you go now when a good chunk of rides, shows and attractions are closed, there is minimal maintenance going on so you see lots of broken effects, and half the amenities have been taken away. Plus all the rules and resarvation systems sounds as nightmarish as dealing with the TSA at a crowded airport.

Until Disney gets back to core values and restores the parks to their former glory just stop going.

No fast pass plus, no crowds, no lines. It may be the best trip ever.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

None of the places you’re going are very populated.

I wish I could agree, but there will be a decent amount of people at GCNP and Sedona on the trails and Oak creek usually have crowds. Ironically the most populated place, Scottsdale, is maybe the safest given we can pretty much stay at the resort and they have capacity limits.