Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
ParentsOf4 said:
My child doesn't go to school for 50 years. Let me present it this way using your child analogy.

My child, who received an 'A' for the first 3 years (in WDW's case, 1971-1981, 1981-1991, and 1991-2001), just finished the school year with a 'C'. (In the 2001-2011 time frame, I give WDW credit for MS - 2003, Soarin' - 2005, EE - 2006, Finding Nemo Musical - 2007, and TSM - 2008, all of which have shown themselves to be popular attractions with the general public.) They have started the next school year with some interesting work (FLE - to be completed 2014, Avatar land - hopefully 2016 depending on the rumor de jour, and Carsland - date to be determined but rumor suggests this happening within the next few years.) This gets them through mid-terms in the current school year (i.e. 2016) but I can't actually grade these until I see them. (I refuse to be judgmental of an attraction/land until I experience it first-hand.) The question then becomes what are they going to do for the rest of the school year (i.e. until 2021)?

Prices are a different matter. I have posted on numerous threads that, adjusted for inflation and taking into account the expansions from 1984 to date, a day at WDW now costs more than double what it did in 1983. To me, this is why there is absolutely no excuse for "the powers that be" who are running Disney to be sitting on their duff at WDW. Using the child analogy once more, I am sending them to the best schools, paying for the best tutors, and doing everything I can to support their work from home. They've shown they are capable of 'A' work. Under these circumstances, there is no good reason for them not to be getting an 'A'. However, it looks like they've gotten in with the "wrong" crowd and have lost focus. Let's hope a parental intervention will get them back on focus. (In this case, the parental intervention is being done by Universal who has been beating WDW at their own game for the last few years.)

I realize you might have a different opinion of the last decade or what's been started for the next decade. I'd be interested in reading it.
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You just have a very different way of viewing things. I can't justify writing off a decade of life ... and I wouldn't be rewarding WDW with nine years of future visits when they are giving you the same crappy product at ever increasing price points.

Even you point out that you've been paying more and getting less. So why? Is it familiarity/addiction? Are you afraid to go elsewhere (even with Disney?)

I believe WDW jumped the shark in 1996. When that castle turned pink. When they had a huge marketing campaign that went from 9/96 to 3/98 (it never ended ... by guest demand, of course). They have been trending downward ever since ... and that is with them opening -- a park I love -- DAK ... and one of my favorite resorts -- DAK Lodge -- in that timeframe.

The overall product has fallen and continued to fall. And Disney keeps looking for less discerning, less demanding (although I've come to greatly disagree that dumber people are less demanding and find the opposite to be true).

I have now entered middle age and the thought that I should give WDW management another decade of mediocrity to attempt to right the ship just sounds laughable (no matter what Jim Hill thinks!)

Disney needs to right the ship NOW.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
SirLink said:
Disney is great at procrastination, waste and spending other peoples money. So Why For? are there not more sponsors in The World!

Is it that they couldn't find enough sponsors for every food location, every shop, every show, every ride? I'm not convinced they could or should I say would - especially when they start complaining the money isn't being spent well.

I wonder if the Chinese government will want a line of Western based companies sponsoring everything from Pirates flume ride to the bathrooms or will it be less to be respectful to the Chinese.
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SDL will likely have numerous sponsors just as HKDL does. But no park/resort has the level of sponsorship that TDR has.

Why aren't there more in O-Town? Two reasons: 1.) the economy makes it hard to justify; and 2.) the cache of a relationship with Disney in say 1972 or 1982 isn't there in 2012 ... just not that much of a bonus for the other company.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
tomman710 said:
I can't imagine what it must be like for you (people who actually know about these plans in more specifics) or to a greater extent the imagineers that have to have the knowledge of great ideas/potential that is ready to go and you/them are waiting on a yes that may never come ... that must be infuriating.

The rest of us while still curious/frustrated at least can only speculate, we don't really know how good/great these ideas/attractions could be ...
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The best projects at Disney are easily accessable for most fans. Buy a coffee table book because that's where they are.

At least for the US parks, largely. ... It's sad, but it's reality.
 
WDW1974

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Pentacat said:
I was going to bring up her predecessor but I found some "spirited" comments in another location that answered those questions.

How much of Anaheim's lack of concern for WDW has been just bad management? There's not some kind of pent up resentment going back to the piles of money that Eisner spent in Florida is there?
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Why would Anaheim management care?

They care about their resort ... and that's with a Florida guy as the Prez.

You don't think he looks good with the way DLR is performing ... and the fact that EPCOT (a park he once ran) is struggling?

I don't think anyone at TDA really thinks about FLA except when some FLA-doctrine comes down and affects their business.
 
SirLink

SirLink

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
SDL will likely have numerous sponsors just as HKDL does. But no park/resort has the level of sponsorship that TDR has.

Why aren't there more in O-Town? Two reasons: 1.) the economy makes it hard to justify; and 2.) the cache of a relationship with Disney in say 1972 or 1982 isn't there in 2012 ... just not that much of a bonus for the other company.
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So basically since TDO management structure happened - there has been too many chefs adding too much lime to over sour the Thai food.
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
WDW1974, this may be a stupid question, but what is the deal with the big spirited change thing? I have seen several people with reference to spirited change on here, but never actually understood what it means. Is this an actual movement within people who work for TDO or is it more of a fan thing? If there is some other thread that goes into this just point me in the right direction.
 
the.dreamfinder

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
WDW1974 said:
I can't justify writing off a decade of life ... and I wouldn't be rewarding WDW with nine years of future visits when they are giving you the same crappy product at ever increasing price points.
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Of course, there's also another issue that said strategy could pose, one that could really, REALLY hurt WDW down the road.

To explain, I'd like to describe a conversation I had. Through high school and part of college, I worked at a summer camp as a counselor. As a counselor, you learn a lot about what stuff kids are and are not interested in. (It's how I first heard about Phineas and Ferb and Adventure Time) One day on the very long bus ride to camp, two of my campers, twins, had gone with their family to O-Town. During the discussion, they spoke with great enthusiasm about what they did on their trip and how amazing it was. You know the only thing they talked about for 30 minutes was??? Harry Potter. Despite being gone for a week, the only thing they talked about was The Wizarding World. The recreation of Hogsmeade village, Ollivander's, Butterbeer, Forbidden Journey, etc... They spoke with as much if not more excitement of their time there as I did when I would recall my trips to WDW when I was a kid.

And that's the problem, WDW has lost and will continue to lose the grip it once had on the imagination's of children if they continue offering a stale product or if they wait until the 50th to fix things. They could lose a generation of kids and that should give Disney some serious pause because of its long term effect. WDW will just be part of the Orlando vacation to these kids, not the crowning jewel it once was. As they grow up and later start families, that feeling will hurt the bottom line in ways some folks here and at TDO do not think is possible. It is foolish to assume WDW will always hold a vice grip on Central FL vacations.

While WDW has lost mindshare of today's children (no tommorow's child jokes please), it can still come back and win back today's generation and ensure its mindshare with future generations. However, the current strategy will absolutely decimate the mindshare they still have and as many fallen companies have shown, everything else will follow it.
 
NoChesterHester

NoChesterHester

Well-Known Member
the.dreamfinder said:
Of course, there's also another issue that said strategy could pose, one that could really, REALLY hurt WDW down the road.

To explain, I'd like to describe a conversation I had. Through high school and part of college, I worked at a summer camp as a counselor. As a counselor, you learn a lot about what stuff kids are and are not interested in. (It's how I first heard about Phineas and Ferb and Adventure Time) One day on the very long bus ride to camp, two of my campers, twins, had gone with their family to O-Town. During the discussion, they spoke with great enthusiasm about what they did on their trip and how amazing it was. You know the only thing they talked about for 30 minutes was??? Harry Potter. Despite being gone for a week, the only thing they talked about was The Wizarding World. The recreation of Hogsmeade village, Ollivander's, Butterbeer, Forbidden Journey, etc... They spoke with as much if not more excitement of their time there as I did when I would recall my trips to WDW when I was a kid.

And that's the problem, WDW has lost and will continue to lose the grip it once had on the imagination's of children if they continue offering a stale product or if they wait until the 50th to fix things. They could lose a generation of kids and that should give Disney some serious pause because of its long term effect. WDW will just be part of the Orlando vacation to these kids, not the crowning jewel it once was. As they grow up and later start families, that feeling will hurt the bottom line in ways some folks here and at TDO do not think is possible. It is foolish to assume WDW will always hold a vice grip on Central FL vacations.

While WDW has lost mindshare of today's children (no tommorow's child jokes please), it can still come back and win back today's generation and ensure its mindshare with future generations. However, the current strategy will absolutely decimate the mindshare they still have and as many fallen companies have shown, everything else will follow it.
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Exactly. There is a real long term danger for Disney in Orlando. All young children love Disney, but that has to be more than a childhood connection for someone to become a fan. At some point later in life someone has to make that connection and fall in love with the place. For me it was my teenage years. Universal existed, but no IOA. This was the early nineties and Disney was amazing to me. Truly magical, not just a corporate greeting. We went every year, sometimes twice and were always amazed by the new attractions, resorts, and areas opening at a faster pace than our frequent visits.

Herein lies the real danger. If kids today grow up thinking Disney is stale and Universal is magical then not too far down the road those “kids” bring their kids to the resort that gave them the real magical experience. Just like we return to Disney with our kids today. The paradigm can shift in a big way and a cultural shift like that is nearly impossible to recover from in the short term.

Attendance goes flat. Then starts slipping. Then never recovers. The once giant is left to wonder why their new attractions dont change the cycle. Perhaps they recognize this or perhaps they are so caught up in the corporate machine they are blind to the real danger. The long term damage.

This would be a common narrative of once industry dominant American corporations. I hope it doesn't happen to my favorite company.
 
ParentsOf4

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
Justin Doggett said:
Damn this thread is a bummer makes me think twice before going to wdw and sort of ruins it
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You might consider this thread, which asked people to grade WDW:
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/your-grade-for-walt-disney-world.843945/

This will give you a mix of opinions. Most people like WDW, many love it.

To summarize the current grievances:
1. Insufficient new attraction development
2. Prices continue to climb
3. Poor maintenance
4. Lots of small cuts

My summary opinion is WDW used to be the undisputed #1 theme park vacation destination for its first 3 decades but has declined since then. It's still good but not as good as it used to be. In the meantime, other theme parks have improved and the gap between WDW and the competition has closed considerably. In terms of attraction development, the action right now is at Universal Orlando. The public seems to agree. Attendance at Universal is way up while it's been flat at WDW.

If you've never been to WDW, it's still something to consider, if you can afford it.
 

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