Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[wannab@dis]

Not this time around I think I will have a good time there regardless. I haven't been to disney in 13 yrs how much has it changed

This is the wrong thread for you to be reading if you're not familiar with a dozen or so posters that continually find fault with anything and everything at WDW. Of course, there are issues, just like there was when you went 13 years ago. It's doubtful that you'll even notice the minutia that a few here complain about. Post any specific questions you have to the Planning forum and I'm sure you'll get all the answers you're looking for.

 

[nor'easter]

This is the wrong thread for you to be reading if you're not familiar with a dozen or so posters that continually find fault with anything and everything at WDW. Of course, there are issues, just like there was when you went 13 years ago. It's doubtful that you'll even notice the minutia that a few here complain about. Post any specific questions you have to the Planning forum and I'm sure you'll get all the answers you're looking for.

Yes, you probably won't notice that many of the effects in Dinosaur don't work anymore. There is a newish mountain, but that big hairy creature that is supposed to make a swipe at you is now disco dancing (and I'm not talking about WDW1974). You may not notice that many of the audioanimatronic figures on Splash Mountain are now static. You'll find that much of the Studios park is an embarrassment. And that Pleasure Island is closed and collecting dust. But those are all minutiae.

 

[Donfan]

Something along the lines of when technology causes established companies to no longer maintain their strength....or something like that.

It can be more than just technology. Anybody taken a close look at Eastman Kodak or JC Penney lately?

 

[Justin Doggett]

Yes, you probably won't notice that many of the effects in Dinosaur don't work anymore. There is a newish mountain, but that big hairy creature that is supposed to make a swipe at you is now disco dancing (and I'm not talking about WDW1974). You may not notice that many of the audioanimatronic figures on Splash Mountain are now static. You'll find that much of the Studios park is an embarrassment. And that Pleasure Island is closed and collecting dust. But those are all minutiae.

I loved dinosaur when i went along time ago and also what was in pleasure island i dont remeber that?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

It can be more than just technology. Anybody taken a close look at Eastman Kodak or JC Penney lately?

Right, it's about how companies respond to change. Our friends at TDO aren't really responding to it.

 

[Clever Name]

Right, it's about how companies respond to change. Our friends at TDO aren't really responding to it.

NextGen might be part of their response.

 

[tomman710]

NextGen might be part of their response.

NextGen isn't a response to the fans. This isn't directed at the above poster just my thoughts ... but ... Personally, I don't see how it adds value to any "guest experience" it's just being sold to us as something "for us" when in reality it's sophisticated data mining that enables them to come up with more direct and subversive (maybe not so subversive) ways to take money.

 

[Clever Name]

NextGen isn't a response to the fans. This isn't directed at the above poster just my thoughts ... but ... Personally, I don't see how it adds value to any "guest experience" it's just being sold to us as something "for us" when in reality it's sophisticated data mining that enables them to come up with more direct and subversive (maybe not so subversive) ways to take money.

At this stage I don't think we really know what is being included in NextGen nor do we know how it will work. There was some talk about face recognition being included to replace the biometric finger scans. That would help speed entry into the parks and might be used to exclude or identify persons of interest.

 

[tomman710]

At this stage I don't think we really know what is being included in NextGen nor do we know how it will work. There was some talk about face recognition being included to replace the biometric finger scans. That would help speed entry into the parks and might be used to exclude or identify persons of interest.

Very true ... but I guess the cynic and businessman in me says this is nothing more than fancy ways to help them market more efficiently and directly ... (i.e. the example of knowing where we shop, what we look at, knowing we didn't buy anything, then texting a discount code to our phone for products specific to us based on where we spent time in the shop ... or something like that) ... but you're right we don't know yet.

So you have a good point ... let's not rush to judgment until we know how it will work.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

To be fair, I think TDO responded to the events of 9/11 in a certain way and, unfortunately, are responding the same way 11 years later.

I went to WDW twice less than 8 months after those tragic events and both times WDW was a ghost town. That dramatic drop in attendance must have had an effect on the TDO psyche and it was at that time I remember the dramatic cuts first started happening. Did it start sooner? Yes, but it was really noticeable after 9/11. Looks like they got into the mindset of "We can make cuts and people keep coming" at about that time and still are thinking that same way today.

Well said, but I was referring more to changes in their business model. EVERYONE got hurt by 9/11, but their current business model that folks will stay only on property and never venture out is effectively dead. Before IOA opened, they were ready, but they never took a hit in attendance so they didn't have to do anything. Now they thought a couple meet and greets and some c and d tickets could compete with Potter and the capital now being showered over USF by Comcast.

 

[TP2000]

Now they thought a couple meet and greets and some c and d tickets could compete with Potter and the capital now being showered over USF by Comcast.

Comcast was behind the failed takeover attempt by Disney back in early '05. Comcast was attempting a hostile stock takeover, and it didn't turn out well for them. Comcast was publicly embarassed, and it helped speed the fall and removal of Eisner from the CEO office and board.

There are likely a few execs at Comcast who feel they are getting some revenge for that, at least in Florida. And now they have their eyes set on Universal Studios Hollywood, which TDA seems to be reacting to with the rumored Tomorrowland E Ticket for Disneyland.

Maybe it's just me and I've missed it, but I haven't seen many references to the old Comcast failed takeover attempt of Disney from back in '05. That would seem to be a part of this current competition in Orlando.

 

[Longhairbear]

I think Disney is concerned that attendance at WDW is slacking. We just got notified of new perks as DVC members, one being a $300 discount for the Premium annual pass at WDW. I'm sure they want to lock us into staying on property longer, and more often with this deal.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

There are likely a few execs at Comcast who feel they are getting some revenge for that, at least in Florida. And now they have their eyes set on Universal Studios Hollywood, which TDA seems to be reacting to with the rumored Tomorrowland E Ticket for Disneyland.

Like this guy??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Burke_(businessman)
Steve Burke, the CEO of NBCUni, who worked for Disney in the 80's and 90's. The guy who ran EuroDisney after it was restructured. The guy who LEFT Disney because of Eisner's attitude towards him despite his successes.
Yeah... that guy.

Folks on here need to read DisneyWar!!

 

[nor'easter]

their current business model that folks will stay only on property and never venture out is effectively dead.

That is exactly right. "Magical Express" will no longer keep èm down on the farm.

 

[Denscott]

At this stage I don't think we really know what is being included in NextGen nor do we know how it will work. There was some talk about face recognition being included to replace the biometric finger scans. That would help speed entry into the parks and might be used to exclude or identify persons of interest.

One thing you always have to watch for...technology is great but the more advanced the tech the greater chance it will break and the greater the planning must be taken to ensure that it does not break.

Personally, from reading these forums, I think that was the problem with the Yeti...it was so advanced and huge that to keep it running in prime condition over years and decades would require more maintenance and engineering planning than what was given to them as available time in the night or more than manpower would allow.
This is a typical problem in the manufacturing industry...buy something big and expensive to do "everything" yet never allow the time or manpower to properly maintain it and keep it running.

 

[RSoxNo1]

At this stage I don't think we really know what is being included in NextGen nor do we know how it will work. There was some talk about face recognition being included to replace the biometric finger scans. That would help speed entry into the parks and might be used to exclude or identify persons of interest.

I actually think quite a bit is known about NextGen at this point. I don't think we fully understand the end game of it, but it appears that things like Fastpass+ and personalized meet and greets are for people with deeper wallets. This is all well and good if it doesn't disrupt the touring of those of us paying "normal" prices, however we already see that it has. Enforcement of return times at Fastpass is disruptive, and the widespread additions of Fastpass queues where they were previously unnecessary seems to indicate that a day at Disney World is going to be far more regimented than it previously was.

Nothing is romanticized more than Disney World, and I fear that the slips in maintenance, the homogenization of the parks, and the increased structure is going to change all of that. I fear that in a generation, people won't look back at Disney World as a magical vacation where they truly escaped from reality, I fear that those same people will look back at that vacation as something highly structured and that's their takeaway.

Disney is attempting to shift the focus away from the attractions that made them famous. They're also shifting the focus away from experiencing the ambiance of the parks, all in favor of what will undoubtedly be a very scheduled (and potentially stressful) day. Yes, some people prefer that, but if it's at the cost of those of us that don't, I'm highly against it.

 

[Viget]

Comcast was behind the failed takeover attempt by Disney back in early '05. Comcast was attempting a hostile stock takeover, and it didn't turn out well for them. Comcast was publicly embarassed, and it helped speed the fall and removal of Eisner from the CEO office and board.

There are likely a few execs at Comcast who feel they are getting some revenge for that, at least in Florida. And now they have their eyes set on Universal Studios Hollywood, which TDA seems to be reacting to with the rumored Tomorrowland E Ticket for Disneyland.

QFT. Agree 100%. As they say, revenge is a dish best eaten cold. And with Comcast acquiring NBCUni instead, with some of its ex-Disney employees as noted above, the desire to beat the mouse at its own game is just even greater. Although, I think it stupid to hold a grudge against TWDC for the sins of Eisner. Maybe it's just because Iger is at the helm?

Maybe it's just me and I've missed it, but I haven't seen many references to the old Comcast failed takeover attempt of Disney from back in '05. That would seem to be a part of this current competition in Orlando.

You mean like this post here?

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/dhs-cars-land.846133/page-70#post-5114751

 

[flynnibus]

I actually think quite a bit is known about NextGen at this point. I don't think we fully understand the end game of it, but it appears that things like Fastpass+ and personalized meet and greets are for people with deeper wallets

I think the end game is clear - Disney is/was trying to find a new way of differentiating their product in a way that was not easily replicated by the competition. It looked to technology and Disney's heavy footprint in customer contact as a way to devise new products to create a market differentiation. This is the pitch they gave to investors - this is about building the next generation of theme parks. An attempt at making a generational leap, instead of just incremental adds to an existing model.

Instead of just doing the same, over and over.. and doing things their competition could also just easily follow along and copy.. or add similar things.. NextGen is an effort to put space between Disney and the competition.

The individual product offerings will ultimately work together to serve that greater purpose. Very much like the Magic Your Way program was designed. MYW ticketing model WITH DME work together to create a lethal weapon. Each can be studied individually, but when used together.. the value is greater than the sum of the parts. That's the part people keep overlooking with NextGen. they are so worried about the individual bits they aren't looking at all at the larger web Disney is weaving..

 

[RSoxNo1]

I think the end game is clear - Disney is/was trying to find a new way of differentiating their product in a way that was not easily replicated by the competition. It looked to technology and Disney's heavy footprint in customer contact as a way to devise new products to create a market differentiation. This is the pitch they gave to investors - this is about building the next generation of theme parks. An attempt at making a generational leap, instead of just incremental adds to an existing model.

Instead of just doing the same, over and over.. and doing things their competition could also just easily follow along and copy.. or add similar things.. NextGen is an effort to put space between Disney and the competition.

The individual product offerings will ultimately work together to serve that greater purpose. Very much like the Magic Your Way program was designed. MYW ticketing model WITH DME work together to create a lethal weapon. Each can be studied individually, but when used together.. the value is greater than the sum of the parts. That's the part people keep overlooking with NextGen. they are so worried about the individual bits they aren't looking at all at the larger web Disney is weaving..

I don't doubt your concept here, but at this point it's also fair to say that they are incapable or at least unwilling to make the leap in attractions. Disney would love it if they're competition was only copying them on quality attractions, but they are regularly seeing their attractions exceeded by the offerings at Universal.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't doubt your concept here, but at this point it's also fair to say that they are incapable or at least unwilling to make the leap in attractions. Disney would love it if they're competition was only copying them on quality attractions, but they are regularly seeing their attractions exceeded by the offerings at Universal.

Why would they love having to convince people why Star Tours is better than Simpsons? Or Muppets is better than Shrek? 'Better' is subjective and can be hard to explain or convince. That means slow, expensive, inefficient, and often ineffective. Differentiation creates clear and easy to see gaps. The same way Disney doesn't really compete with regional parks on the same field.. NextGen is to try to create that kind of separation between Disney and competitors in what the theme park experience encompasses.

Moves like this are about the LONG HAUL - not about how good FJ is or not.