Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[M.rudolf]

This is in the eye of the beholder. These standards have been the same since I have been going to the parks. Its comical when people say "back in the day things were better" because back in the day, as I have said time and time again, we did not have the internet to instantly display faults when they appear. Universal, the darling of the doom and gloomers has the same issues where rides don't work at a optimal condition 100% of the time. While its no excuse for bad show, it don't bother me, and 99.8% of the general public.

Paying more and getting less?

If you really feel this way, why would you spend your hard earned money on such a thing? I would never pay money I worked my rear end off for and not feel I got my monies worth. But you expect more from Disney? You can argue that, but again, then that will always come back to a decision you have to make. If you feel your vacation experience is substandard for what you pay, resort-food-attractions, then you need to judge is you should take your money elsewhere, which you should, or accept what Disney has to offer. Disney will not notice anything wrong if you keep going, but take your money out of their hands, yes, they will notice. Possibly.



Walmarting of park merchandise? Seriously, thats a silly concept. Disney has every right to make money off the properties they own. If you owned the money making ventures that Disney has, you would try to maximize any potential revenue steam that is available. Thats just good business. As a public company with shareholders who demand a return on investment every quarter, well, explain to me a better way?

DTD is a failure beyond the shops that sell merchandise and DisneyQuest, I have no rebuttle for that one. I did enjoy the experience when the whole thing was running when it was in its heyday, it sucks now.



Fantasmic is playing 2 times a night right now? Did it used to play more?

My opinion is, if people go looking for things wrong, by golly, they will find things wrong, no matter what. If you go to Disney World, or anywhere for a vacation to relax and have a good time, you will have a good time. Its up to the person really, and for people to complain about a vacation destination, well I feel that tells a lot about them.

As a person.


Jimmy Thick- Deep breaths, relax. Now go enjoy the moment.

I agree but compared to Tokyo or Anaheim its an entirely different product. As far as walmartung of merchandise goes I meant quality of merchandise. I will be skipping DW for a while, I'm going to DL and Tokyo.It also says a lot about a person when they criticize them before they get to know them

 

[WDW1974]

Ya nobody likes a hungry Spirit. With all these people clamouring to purchase you a meal it's amazing you are not the pre-subway Jared.

It is scary. I do get how people explode overnight ... once you get beyond a point (thankfully I haven't although I've nudged it a few times) it's very easy to turn a 20-pound issue into a 100-pound one. I still can't believe the dude lost all that weight by eating there, though ... it only adds to my issues.

BTW..when you stop over in the cultural destination of the World(NYC) drop me a line..you can buy...saving all that money on your Disney un-lifestyle.

I will. I need to get back to NYC. Been waaaay too long. And got peeps there.

But I guess it's better if you look good in that tux for the Emmys

Yes, it is. But the big joke is I'm a good 25 pounds over my 'typical' Emmys playing weight, I'll probably drop half that in the next month but no more. That's what living in a place where going outside makes you feel disgusting will do.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

I agree but compared to Tokyo or Anaheim its an entirely different product

Why are you comparing it to to anything else to begin with? Comparing a standard maybe?

Ever think maybe people from those parks say the same thing about Disney World?

Maybe some people are complacent with what they know and think the grass is greener elsewhere, like a lot of people do. People will believe what they want, or think what they want, thats being human. Reality is much different. The first time people do anything creates a magical vaccum of excuses that circle their mind stronger than the most pricest Kirby.


Jimmy Thick- And I own a Dyson.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

What standards have slipped? I go several times a year and have not seen these slipping standards everyone likes to comment on.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/disney-giveth-and-disney-taketh-away.841422/
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/splash-mountains-health.844206/
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/expedition-everest-effects-status-watch.171808/
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/battle-of-the-wdw-eyesores.844133/
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/dare-to-face-the-yeti.843741/
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/peter-pans-flight-needs-a-rehab.843851/
http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/the-great-paper-napkin-watch.842376/

^That's some of the reality you can try dealing with. You can try and spin it however you like and say no one notices these sorts of things. But that doesn't change the fact that they all exist. It doesn't help when these issues were introduced gradually to the masses as a sort of "boiling frogs to death slowly" sort of situation. People are conditioned NOT to notice these things. And it's not very difficult to brainwash massive quantities of people into doing incredibly ignorant things. Having spent such a long time away from WDW like I did while it was slowly but surely being rotted and subtracted from was both a blessing and a curse. Curse because it was like a sharp bucket of ice water being splashed on my face seeing what had happened during my absence. Blessing though because I hadn't been slowly weaned off of basic levels of quality so that such cutbacks would seem more acceptable in my mind.

A bit of narrative on my personal experiences with the parks and general comments that i'm sure others have already heard:

My last trip to Disney World was Feb 28th-29th during that 24 hour day, had visited a lot the year before. I was staying at Orlando and waiting for my new home purchase to go through so I had a good quantity of time to visit the parks a lot. But Feb 28-29 were the last two days on my AP. I actually live less than 4 hours away from WDW so it's fairly cheap and easy to get there if I really want to. I have not renewed and am seriously considering not returning at all unless things really do make an almighty turn around. One hopes things do turn around, WDW in its heyday(s) was one of my favorite places to be in the US. Good to hear there's at least some hope from our well respected insiders here. Won't raise the hopes too high though, that's only setting up for disappointment.

Prior to my recent visits during the past 2 or so years, I had not been to Disney World since about 1997 (right during the time when Epcot was just beginning to receive its unfortunate metamorphosis). I had been MANY times since the early 90's until 97 though. After returning, it was a horrible shock to see how badly the quality had fallen over the years since. Attractions and entertainment either closed down or replaced with inferior ones, food had dropped in quality, and even the most simple but important elements such as cleanliness and maintenance had gone down the tubes. Mind you, this was also a clean slate visit. I didn't keep track of any Disney forums or current events. So I didn't really have any idea that WDW was well known to have gone down the crapper. I simply expected WDW to be at least close to the experience it used to be. What a massive mistake that was, and a huge letdown. I didn't need anyone to tell me this, I knew it outright. Joined here soon afterwards though and discovered that the decline had been discussed and documented heavily by insiders and ordinary members alike.

 

[WDW1974]

I agree TDR is beautiful. I'll be at Dl very soon so I hope it's the way I remember it. I used to live in Oceanside and used to go all the time 20 years ago.

Another lucky TDR visitor? ... My feeling is once you go, you'll never view WDW close to the same again. Because it is WDW 25 years ago from a quality standpoint plussed and modernized and then placed through the prism of a culture that still believes people will pay for quality.

As to DL, if you haven't been in 20 years ... wow ... I think it would be like visiting WDW for the first time in 1982 and then returning now to some degree in terms of expansion and the look of the place ... but the quality is still there, which is why in mere weeks so will I!!!

 

[M.rudolf]

Why are you comparing it to to anything else to begin with? Comparing a standard maybe?

Ever think maybe people from those parks say the same thing about Disney World?

Maybe some people are complacent with what they know and think the grass is greener elsewhere, like a lot of people do. People will believe what they want, or think what they want, thats being human. Reality is much different. The first time people do anything creates a magical vaccum of excuses that circle their mind stronger than the most pricest Kirby.


Jimmy Thick- And I own a Dyson.

Exactly a standard for excellence. Why are you worried about my opinion. I seriously doubt they say that about Disneyworld. I am not complacent if I was I wouldn't care. I have no magical vacuum of excuses. Disney at this time does

 

[RSoxNo1]

I've never known one Imagineer who has the passion for WDW that they do for DL ... but I'll say that with a caveat.

They don't let the really passionate guys (the ones who care about quality and like to spend on it) work WDW anymore.

I'd guess if Tony Baxter were put in charge of EPCOT, and given the proper resources, you might just see a whole different approach to things taken.

MiceAge had a post today that reviewed the Destination D event, and in it, Tony Baxter talked about having resources and how that separates something like Peter Pan's Flight from Carsland

The Peter Pan attraction is one thing but Imagineers have taken it to a completely new level with Cars Land. When a guest walks into Radiator Springs and down Route 66 they enter the world of that movie. It’s exponential growth in the immersive experience. Tony was asked what’s next, what other environments, what other Disney films? How does Imagineering continue that progression forward?

Baxter responded, “You know there’s a great thing that’s happened in Radiator Springs. It’s called Lots Of Money. And that does allow you to create something that you couldn’t afford for the 17 million dollars. But on the other side of the coin, emotion can engage you even more strongly than having to build physical things and so for me, I look at being able to take people out of the way the real world functions and put them in something you couldn’t dare to do or couldn’t conceive of doing unless you were a very skilled person.”

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's Eisner's fault.

Because he listened to the people you hail as saviors.

This is the internet, I have a feeling the majority of the posters posting here have not been to the parks in years, yet doom and gloom to join the crowd like mindless sheep spewing nonsense and lies. The parks are, if you take them for their true intention, a vacation destination, are still amazing and magical.

Jimmy Thick- Was there a couple months ago, I speak from experience.

Go back a few pages. Many of us, except jt04, gave the month and year of our last visit.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You are correct. We accept and seem to thrive as a nation on mediocrity and it's painful to watch.

WDW is still a nice place but when you go to DL ... or one of the international resorts, especially TDR, WDW feels like it's a lot closer to a Six Flags caliber product, which no doubt actually makes much of the clientele comfortable ... Sorta like the rubes on the dining plan who go to the California Grill when they belong at Pecos Bill Cafe.

I just decided I'm going to both in one day

 

[ScoutN]

Because he listened to the people you hail as saviors.


Go back a few pages. Many of us, except jt04, gave the month and year of our last visit.

I guess my trip that I'm currently headed home from makes me delusional. Btw GF's lights were only turned on on the waterfront restaurant and back buildings. Looked worse with a few buildings lit with half off than the entirety with lights out.

 

[lebeau]

Proof please.

I'll see what I can do as soon as I stop laughing.

Given your long track record of refusing to provide proof for anything, you probably shouldn't make this request.

DCA was not the only factor. Iger is careful and deliberate about capital projects. There have been many. He say as much everytime he appears.

Yes, SuperIger and the Staggs Wonder can do no wrong. Man-crush much?

Until he or Staggs or someone at that level says they really were not concerned with WDW past, present or future unless they saw numbers stagnating then you will have a hard time convincing otherwise.

Even if Iger said that (which obviously, he's never going to say he was not concerned with WDW), it would be impossible to convince you of anything other than your delusions.

Do you seriously think Iger makes every decision in the company? Does Iger pick out the curtains too? The way you talk about Iger this and Iger that makes me think you have no idea what a CEO does.

 

[lebeau]

They knew Potter was opening. They knew WDW was solid as they invested elsewhere. They knew they had to react in some way to Uni and Legoland and so they green-lit the FLE. They are not standing still at WDW just look at all the changes to the MK. Though relatively modest they are numerous. It is a setting of the table for the bigger investments WDW74 says are coming. And I have been saying will happen for years.

Disney is so proactive they came up with their plans for a Fantasyland expansion a decade before Legoland was planned in "response" to it. They saw the most significant expansion in recent years happen at Universal and knew they didn't need to respond until Legoland was announced an hour away.

This is a Kaufmanesque put-on right?

 

[lebeau]

I just want to point out that park upkeep is far more under the control of resort management than the CEO.

I just want to point out that no one should need to have this pointed out to them as it is the most obvious thing in the world.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I just want to point out that park upkeep is far more under the control of resort management than the CEO.

Yes and no. At most corporations, overall budgets, revenue targets, and profit expectations are set at the highest levels, basically by the CEO and, depending on their effectiveness, the Board of Directors. Each business unit then needs to figure out how they are going to make those numbers. If executive management decides to slash a budget or increase profit expectations, that unit's leadership will be challenged. Excellent leadership comes up with innovative ideas; weaker leadership cuts corners and increases prices, even though such decisions usually have long-term repercussions. I don't know the inner workings of Disney well enough to understand how realistic were the expectations for WDW, so I can't comment on whether the lion's share of the problem lies in Burbank (i.e. because of unrealistic expectations) or in TDO (i.e. poor execution). If Disney is like many large companies, usually it's a little bit of both.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yes, SuperIger and the Staggs Wonder can do no wrong. Man-crush much?

Of course. The lousy advice they gave Eisner was all part of their Premium Pendulum Plan®.

 

[spacemt354]

Wow. I'm at wdw now and just got some free time and read this whole thing. I know this has been said before but i don't understand why posters continue debate with others that is essentially pointless because it is just back and forth and you're not going to change the other's opinion. This thread would be much shorter if this didn't happen because I've found it to be a waste of time and energy.

But anyway my two cents.

I just got back from Epcot and animal kingdom today and am going to the magic kingdom for emh tonight. I have to say, first hand, the parks have changed. And not because of new rides, shows, or lower prices. Quite the opposite actually.

Epcot has always been one of my favorite parks and the novel concept has so much potential, yet from what I saw today, I wasn't impressed. So much empty space, it was kinda sad. I know others can dispute that the park quality is not as bad as posters make them seem, but actions speak louder than words. And you need to be in the parks first hand to see the reality. Just reading articles and going on a website doesnt do it justice. All the empty buildings in Epcot just sitting there. Innoventions was a ghost town. So much wasted land. And with test track closed, the crowds were pretty much centrally located at soarin. We went on everything. Nothing about the rides themselves was sub par, which is why I tend to be in the middle of pixie dust and doom and gloom in my opinions. The rides themselves are not bad, they just could do so much more with Epcot (same with animal kingdom) and it shows that the posters who have noted the staleness of the wdw parks have a lot of validity to their statements. And again, seeing it in first person truly does help see the reality.

This state of the parks post/ reality check may brief and general and im sorry but ill give a full review after i get back because i just dont have time. But with all this commotion that this thread has started i felt compelled to post this from the first person park perspective. For me at least it's quite clear. This doesn't mean I'm not having a good time either because this has been a great trip but that doesn't mean I don't see the wasted potential that everyone has been talking about. Hopefully the spirited change is coming.

And edit: this is my 18th trip to wdw so it's not like I'm saying these things just listening to the forums and going down for the first time. I have my own opinions and have been down to wdw a lot. I just wanted to say that to kinda give some more validity to my opinions.

 

[HMF]

I have a question for those who throw the "Doom and Gloom" Tag around to describe those who are unhappy with WDW in it's current state. How many of you have been to Anaheim in the past 7 years?

 

[miles1]

He's the house troll, and he's allowed to stay around for comic relief...at least that's how I see it...

I can't believe you all haven't figured this out yet! Jt is really Steve's alter ego. He comes out when Steve gets bored and wants a good laugh at our frustration in dealing with his posts.

Jimmy Thicke is really The Mom after a bottle of Pinot.

 

[LudwigVonDrake]

I wholeheartedly recommend the ignore button. You avoid the nonsense. The more you respond to him the worse it'll get because you're giving him the attention he craves.

 

[wdisney9000]

If they want people to visit more frequently and stay longer they should offer better vacation packages. It seems the prices have just gotten silly. Especially @ the deluxe resorts. And AP holders seem to get nothing in return for our loyalty, other than price increases. I remember vacation packages used to be way more enticing.