Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[jt04]

Nope.
Expanding FL into the old 20k spot has been the planned next expansion for at least 10-12 years, predating Legoland.

The old Villain Village concept was my favorite. Much cooler than what we're getting.

Again I did not say there were not plans to expand. My theory is the decided on the content of the FLE due to Legoland. Certainly more than Potter.

If Six Flags had of bought CG and created a thrill park you would have seen Disney react very differently. Perhaps an IJ ride or Fire Mountain type response. But the FLE as it is now would not have passed muster IMO.

 

[jt04]

Inaccurate, but simple.

I thought you believed change was coming. I have been saying it for years now. Even WDW74 agrees with that.

 

[jt04]

LOL!

I said it over and over... I didn't offer ANY comments on your quotes other than to say I thought they were funny. I said multiple times it was up to the readers to decide what your intent was. And I think the response was clear.

Sorry, Mom, to derail the thread... But (surprise, surprise) I needed to correct a bit of mis-information.

In fact, for those interested... The post in reference:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/disney-world-vs-disney-land.843056/page-38#post-5070796

Again, how about you distill your mess down to where I stated the situation as fact and not conjecture or opinion. And while you are at it please find the post where I claim my opinion is never wrong. I set up the ability for you to respond through private conversation. Please use that and keep this thread on topic. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[lebeau]

I thought you believed change was coming. I have been saying it for years now. Even WDW74 agrees with that.

You missed my point. Most likely on purpose.

You were suggesting that Disney was slow to add new attractions at WDW because their attention was turned elsewhere and that it was always the plan to update WDW after DCA was done. This is inaccurate.

 

[M.rudolf]

This is why the "pendulum" or if you prefer the "spirited change" is happening at WDW. They know they need to invest they just have had more pressing needs elsewhere. WDI is not a McDonalds Drive Thru either.

What pressing needs are those,don't say DCA,it never performed at a high level. So your saying that Disney deliberately neglected their franchise park to repair secondary parks. WDI is definitely not a McDonalds drive thru I agree with you on that. But TDO is running the parks like a Walmart and not the world class orginanization it once was.

 

[jt04]

You missed my point. Most likely on purpose.

You were suggesting that Disney was slow to add new attractions at WDW because their attention was turned elsewhere and that it was always the plan to update WDW after DCA was done. This is inaccurate.

Proof please. DCA was not the only factor. Iger is careful and deliberate about capital projects. There have been many. He say as much everytime he appears. Until he or Staggs or someone at that level says they really were not concerned with WDW past, present or future unless they saw numbers stagnating then you will have a hard time convincing otherwise.

 

[jt04]

What pressing needs are those don't say DCA,it never performed at a high level. So your saying that Disney deliberately neglected there franchise park to repair secondary parks. WDI is definitely not a McDonalds drive thru I agree with you on that. But TDO is running the parks like a Walmart and not the world class orginanization it once was.

They knew Potter was opening. They knew WDW was solid as they invested elsewhere. They knew they had to react in some way to Uni and Legoland and so they green-lit the FLE. They are not standing still at WDW just look at all the changes to the MK. Though relatively modest they are numerous. It is a setting of the table for the bigger investments WDW74 says are coming. And I have been saying will happen for years.

 

[flynnibus]

Screw chic fil a... I'm sitting here eating sonic right now

 

[tomman710]

Again I did not say there were not plans to expand. My theory is the decided on the content of the FLE due to Legoland. Certainly more than Potter.

If Six Flags had of bought CG and created a thrill park you would have seen Disney react very differently. Perhaps an IJ ride or Fire Mountain type response. But the FLE as it is now would not have passed muster IMO.

Disney doesn't react to Universal but they DID react to Legoland and they WOULD react to Six Flags?

Interesting.

I think there is a new Arby's being built on I-4 ... what will TDO's reaction be to that?

 

[Lee]

Again I did not say there were not plans to expand. My theory is the decided on the content of the FLE due to Legoland. Certainly more than Potter.

If Six Flags had of bought CG and created a thrill park you would have seen Disney react very differently. Perhaps an IJ ride or Fire Mountain type response. But the FLE as it is now would not have passed muster IMO.

You said that the expansion would have maybe gone to AL or FtL if they weren't factoring in Legoland. My response was clear: it was always going to be a Fantasyland expansion, the content of which was mostly decided upon well before Legoland came on the scene.

And thank you for using the phrase "my theory". That is all it is, and it is 100% incorrect. Sorry.

 

[M.rudolf]

Proof please. DCA was not the only factor. Iger is careful and deliberate about capital projects. There have been many. He say as much everytime he appears. Until he or Staggs or someone at that level says they really were not concerned with WDW past, present or future unless they saw numbers stagnating then you will have a hard time convincing otherwise.

The proof is in Igers actions. The parks are a former shell of what they once were. The infrastructure is in shambles. They have numerous transportation issues. The resorts aren't filling to capacity and the only real growth has been DVC. It seems to me that all parks should have been maintained evenly. If this was done on purpose it has to be the worst management plan known to man.

 

[marni1971]

Look at all the changes to the MK?

That used to be called PPM and normal upkeep.

Look at the rot at Epcot and DHS. Look at the forgotten DAK. Look at the mess that is DTD.

 

[jt04]

I've never known one Imagineer who has the passion for WDW that they do for DL ... but I'll say that with a caveat.

They don't let the really passionate guys (the ones who care about quality and like to spend on it) work WDW anymore.

I'd guess if Tony Baxter were put in charge of EPCOT, and given the proper resources, you might just see a whole different approach to things taken.

I get the sense many in Imagineering refuse to accept Iger's framework for new attractions. They still want to do things the old way. But Iger has very specific parameters he looks for. Old school WDI folks seem to have a hard time adapting it seems. There was a story he told about a presentation where sombody wanted to work a Pixar character into an old Disney classic setting. He was not specific but he told the reporter there was something "off" about the presentation. Sounds to me like the presenter decided to include a modern "franchise" knowing that has to be part of a project. But I think they may have over thought the need for a "franchise". Story still matters too.

Just my opinion

 

[jt04]

Look at all the changes to the MK?

That used to be called PPM and normal upkeep.

Look at the rot at Epcot and DHS. Look at the forgotten DAK. Look at the mess that is DTD.

Unfortunately Eisner let so much go. TWDC is still playing catch-up. It took DL's 50th to fix that park. It took a billion dollars to fix DCA. It will take huge investments at WDW to fix that resort. No doubt about it. And if WDW74 is right then help is on the way. (Of course I have been saying that too).

It's Eisner's fault.

 

[M.rudolf]

I get the sense many in Imagineering refuse to accept Iger's framework for new attractions. They still want to do things the old way. But Iger has very specific parameters he looks for. Old school WDI folks seem to have a hard time adapting it seems. There was a story he told about a presentation where sombody wanted to work a Pixar character into an old Disney classic setting. He was not specific but he told the reporter there was something "off" about the presentation. Sounds to me like the presenter decided to include a modern "franchise" knowing that has to be part of a project. But I think they may have over thought the need for a "franchise". Story still

Maybe he should listen to old school WDI they have been doing it right for over 30 years

 

[jt04]

The proof is in Igers actions. The parks are a former shell of what they once were. The infrastructure is in shambles. They have numerous transportation issues. There resorts aren't filling to capacity and the only real growth has been DVC. It seems to me that all parks should have been maintained evenly. If this was done on purpose it has to be the worst management plan known to man.

DL had much worse problems. They are fixed now. They will get fixed at WDW too. They are not going to just shut the place down.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Proof please. DCA was not the only factor. Iger is careful and deliberate about capital projects. There have been many. He say as much everytime he appears. Until he or Staggs or someone at that level says they really were not concerned with WDW past, present or future unless they saw numbers stagnating then you will have a hard time convincing otherwise.

There's really no need for them to publicly say that, you only need to visit there to see it pretty clearly. The resort has been neglected for too long, basically since Eisner lost interest and went into meltdown; we've had some good additions since then like Expedition Everest (which has been in need of work for a while), Mission Space and Toy Story Midway Mania, but they aren't anywhere near enough what is needed in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps you'll disagree but I really don't think there's any excuse for the slip in standards at WDW and for the time it has taken for them to realise that and to, belatedly, being to address it. Take a stroll around DHS at the moment and I would bet that you would start questioning why things have been allowed to slip to the extent that they have.

 

[M.rudolf]

DL had much worse problems. They are fixed now. They will get fixed at WDW too. They are not going to just shut the place down.

I never said they were going to shut the place down what I said is that you have to maintain all properties at an equal levels at all times. That is not happening.

 

[WDW1974]

No, not really. People are the same. They are the same today as they were 10, 100, or 1000 years ago.

The difference is Disney management has changed. You know the history of Disney well enough to know that Walt treated his customers with respect. That corporate culture continued for decades after his death. But then senior management (cough, Eisner, cough) changed and the culture within Disney devolved as people who believed in Walt's vision were slowly replaced by business suits with no passion, who were more concerned with their annual bonuses than with Walt's legacy. People who completely abandoned Walt's values as he expressed so eloquently:

I don't know about 100 or 1,000 years ago. I like to joke I'm a timeless Spirit, but I ain't that old!

But my experience with the human race has been people get dumber every year (maybe we're doing a Planet of the Apes deal and we'll all be chimps soon?) When I see people in every facet of life (from TV to politics to education to theme parks) I see a decline from what I saw 15 years ago ... or 20 years ago. I absolutely think people are dumber than ever. Maybe that's from spending so much time reading BS online when any crazy (we have some here) can place anything out there (Lou Junior's column from the other day comes to mind!) and it gets some cred just by simply existing where others will notice it. Unlike say 25 years ago where if a crazy wanted his words to be seen he had to get them published (and, again, it wasn't like today where folks who don't understand basic English or how to write, do). So, yeah, longwinded way of saying I don't think people (at least in the USA) were this dumb a few decades ago.

You are correct about Disney management and it began in the mid-90s, no doubt about that. That was when the MBAs and consultants gained power and many longtimers either retired, were shoved out or dropped dead.

WDW Co, in particular, changed its business model from one of a resort to one of a real estate, timeshare and hotel developer with ancillary businesses like theme parks. That's when everything changed, when show got tossed out the window and when the Walmarting began (and, yes, it certainly continues ... what started when Liberty Square lost its soul for a character Christmas crap store is the same mentality that sees Bistro de Paris get dumbed down so the pigs who would walk in with tank tops and flip flops and demand burgers will be comfy and since they have all those government checks, either disability or defense contractors as those positions have grown tremendously since 9/11, to spend, their desires are placed over others).

 

[WDW1974]

Sorry, no nothing for you. I was trying (and failing) to be funny. That's what the wink was for!

Yeah, I thought that may be the case ... but this all is starting to hurt my head.

And I am not a no-lifer in O-Town, so I can't go run to the MK and 'report' on the first day of sales for SotMK cards to escape!