Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[Jedeye80]

Definitely American at all levels. Although I do not dislike the other version.

Not a fan of American football but that is because it's not something we really do over in the uk, we are not brought up with it or really play it at all, our football on the other hand kicks off properly tomorrow and I can't wait, even with the Olympics it's a long summer waiting for the season to start again.

 

[marni1971]

I contend that Disney is not overly concerned with Universal and Sea World and Legoland being successful.

Some have been scared to death for a long time now.

Its only recently that more of the suits have begun to dig their heads out of the sand, see the real world picture, and panic like hell.

Please don't treat FLE as a new renaissance. It was always coming. Its just late.

 

[marni1971]

They will react when they are ready to. They do not mind successful competition. If they did they would have immediately reacted the day Universal signed on for Potter 1.0.

They did. Then it was cancelled locally.

And now they've realised they are very very late to the party. And Universals the host.

 

[M.rudolf]

While I do not 100% agree with everything JT says, you guys are hashing him out over this post? While the last paragraph may be edging it close to being rude the thing you are pestering him about is mis-leading. As above he states that in a way they DO have to compete with their competers here in Orlando (as you made him sound it sound like he said they didn't when he never did he just said "not overly concerned") international and national destinations they must watch out for. i.e. Las Vegas, Dubai, Europe(I know there is Disneyland Paris but as an American tourist their #1 goal is to not see a Disneyland when we have two right here), and New York City. And while a new addition to a local theme park may hurt their #'s a little bit (Magic Kingdom still gained 170,000 guests OR 1%) it brings more people to Orlando which is ultimatley not a bad thing at all. So while other theme parks add things they may not have to react right away but overtime (as we are seeing with FLE, Pandora, and who knows what else) they must because if TDO lets their product get stale then the #'s will go down rather then up. So while I'm not saying that Disney has an excuse to not react at all, if they can why not coast on Orlando's increasing popularity (first city to reach 50 million visiters!!!!) and then come and smack their competion back? Oh and if we could please keep some decent respect for each other that would be nice, as this is a Disney fan site/ news site (and the best one out there ) not a middle school classroom.

I can agree with what your saying to an extent. The problems with JT are that he has selective memory. He conveniently post one theory than when it turns out incorrect he states that always his original theory. I don't have any personal grudge against him, but he states misleading thoughts as facts. He will then turn around and be sarcastic with posters who question him and really are only looking for good info. He's stated bad info about numerous things. This topic being only 1 area on the board. He then goes out of his way to discredit guys like wdw74,Lee and Marni. I find it funny that he loves Disney so much but he doesn't go to the parks. I also find the revisionist history he has created for himself to be even funnier. He got a better track record than Nostrodamus. The sad thing is I think he believes his own press. JT wdwmagic's only politician.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

They did. Then it was cancelled locally.

And now they've realised they are very very late to the party. And Universals the host.

And what a lovely party it is, and only getting better.... At least for Uni

 

[M.rudolf]

And what a lovely party it is, and only getting better.... At least for Uni

I agree if my competitions numbers are up and mine are down,they are expanding and I'm sitting in gridlock I'd be worried. There has to some accountability. Certain people have to be worried and probably should be

 

[jt04]

You always make this claim. Do you think we are all too stupid to know that we can click on a quote and that it will take us to the original post, with the whole message and all of its context?

There is no indicator a post has been edited. So I think most times readers would not think to go back.

 

[jt04]

While I do not 100% agree with everything JT says, you guys are hashing him out over this post? While the last paragraph may be edging it close to being rude the thing you are pestering him about is mis-leading. As above he states that in a way they DO have to compete with their competers here in Orlando (as you made him sound it sound like he said they didn't when he never did he just said "not overly concerned") international and national destinations they must watch out for. i.e. Las Vegas, Dubai, Europe(I know there is Disneyland Paris but as an American tourist their #1 goal is to not see a Disneyland when we have two right here), and New York City. And while a new addition to a local theme park may hurt their #'s a little bit (Magic Kingdom still gained 170,000 guests OR 1%) it brings more people to Orlando which is ultimatley not a bad thing at all. So while other theme parks add things they may not have to react right away but overtime (as we are seeing with FLE, Pandora, and who knows what else) they must because if TDO lets their product get stale then the #'s will go down rather then up. So while I'm not saying that Disney has an excuse to not react at all, if they can why not coast on Orlando's increasing popularity (first city to reach 50 million visiters!!!!) and then come and smack their competion back? Oh and if we could please keep some decent respect for each other that would be nice, as this is a Disney fan site/ news site (and the best one out there ) not a middle school classroom.

This post is exactly right and is a great summation of what I have been saying. A rising tide DOES lift all boats. And Disney needs for Central Florida to be perceived as the tourist mecca it is to succeed in the long run. When the competition thrives it defines WIN-WIN.

WOW! 50 million? Never new that. THAT is amazing. Sounds like someone knows what they are doing.

 

[jt04]

I can agree with what your saying to an extent. The problems with JT are that he has selective memory. He conveniently post one theory than when it turns out incorrect he states that always his original theory. I don't have any personal grudge against him, but he states misleading thoughts as facts. He will then turn around and be sarcastic with posters who question him and really are only looking for good info. He's stated bad info about numerous things. This topic being only 1 area on the board. He then goes out of his way to discredit guys like wdw74,Lee and Marni. I find it funny that he loves Disney so much but he doesn't go to the parks. I also find the revisionist history he has created for himself to be even funnier. He got a better track record than Nostrodamus. The sad thing is I think he believes his own press. JT wdwmagic's only politician.

This is the revisionism. We post on rumors. I always define conjecture and opinion. When the facts change (as we know they often do with Disney) I am willing to change my opinion. I have noticed whenever I am accused as you just have there is never any concrete specific example. 20K threw a bunch of quotes up but never made a specific case for where I stated something as fact. I was discussing the rumors about SM as they happened in real time and it was conjecture and opinion of a rapidly changing situation. So, again, get your facts straight before accusing me of being guilty of the same please.

BTW, you never hear me accuse insiders of "bad info" everytime the Crush Coaster or the Back Lot Tour closing gets discussed do you? That is because things change. The facts on the ground change. So then opinions change.

 

[jt04]

I agree if my competitions numbers are up and mine are down,they are expanding and I'm sitting in gridlock I'd be worried. There has to some accountability. Certain people have to be worried and probably should be

I disagree. "Worry and panic" never help the decision making process. Better to be calm and calculating. Emotions cloud judgement and lead to things like gutting a perfectly good Imagination attraction or ruining a classic like SSE. Or constructing giant wands over a park icon or installing a giant hat and ruining just about every decent sightline in a theme park. That is what worry and panic achieves.

 

[M.rudolf]

This post is exactly right and is a great summation of what I have been saying. A rising tide DOES lift all boats. And Disney needs for Central Florida to be perceived as the tourist mecca it is to succeed in the long run. When the competition thrives it defines WIN-WIN.

WOW! 50 million? Never new that. THAT is amazing. Sounds like someone knows what they are doing.

I wish that this were true no one intentionally let's there competitors surpass them. Do you understand that they could have spent less money innovating than playing catchup. That's like saying Apple intentionally let Microsoft surpass them. No company wants to be a follower. Islands of adventure was up 36%. While Magic Kingdom was up 1%. Thats still down .5 percent from 2009. Its just like a home if you maintain your property correctly in the long wrong repairs and general maintenance costs less. I would be appalled as stockholder to be told we intentionally let our business become run down and shoddy knowing that in the long The company would have spent much less than it now has to spend

 

[jt04]

I wish that this were true no one intentionally let's there competitors surpass them. Do you understand that they could have spent less money innovating than playing catchup. That's like saying Apple intentionally let Microsoft surpass them. No company wants to be a follower. Islands of adventure was up 36%. While Magic Kingdom was up 1%. Thats still down .5 percent from 2009. Its just like a home if you maintain your property correctly in the long wrong repairs and general maintenance costs less. I would be appalled as stockholder to be told we intentionally let our business become run down and shoddy knowing that in the long The company would have spent much less than it now has to spend

I have already addressed this but in case you missed it.....

I contend that Disney is not overly concerned with Universal and Sea World and Legoland being successful. They were more concerned with what would have happened had DCA not been fixed first. Or that they did not have near enough supply to meet demand on the Disney Cruise Lines. The mouse was more concerned with incorporating Pixar successfully into the fold than Potterville grabbing a bit of market share. They were more concerned with making aquisitions like Marvel to shore up a content deficit.

I read an article a couple years ago from the Orlando Business Journal that talked about the advantages of larger and more varied content of the central Florida tourism portfolio. There is a possibility of creating so much content that central Florida is ensured of remaining the number 1 tourist destination in the world for decades. Rest assured there are very wealthy interests that want that title. From the middle-east to the far-east, there are real threats to Orlando's crown.

That does not mean Disney will not need to compete against Universal etc, but I do not think they mind the idea of a rising tide lifting all boats. And they do not mind being reactive rather than proactive. The relatively flat numbers of the last couple years are not that major a problem compared to the other issues they faced in other divisions.

The FLE begins the turnaround. It will suprise people and is only a first step to begin to regain numbers. I know you and others deperately need to believe TDO really screwed up due to all the theories of greed and short-sightedness and incompetence.

PS- also consider that Disney may have been waiting for some new technological advancements. These take time too.

 

[wm49rs]

I have already addressed this but in case you missed it.....

I contend that Disney is not overly concerned with Universal and Sea World and Legoland being successful.

In case you missed it:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...unced-next-weekend.781720/page-5#post-4688315

 

[M.rudolf]

This is the revisionism. We post on rumors. I always define conjecture and opinion. When the facts change (as we know they often do with Disney) I am willing to change my opinion. I have noticed whenever I am accused as you just have there is never any concrete specific example. 20K threw a bunch of quotes up but never made a specific case for where I stated something as fact. I was discussing the rumors about SM as they happened in real time and it was conjecture and opinion of a rapidly changing situation. So, again, get your facts straight before accusing me of being guilty of the same please.
You speak about facts but you have none. You have openly said you deduce from rumors and other peoples opinions.
BTW, you never hear me accuse insiders of "bad info" everytime the Crush Coaster or the Back Lot Tour closing gets discussed do you? That is because things change. The facts on the ground change. So then opinions change.

how would you know anything about the facts on the ground? You've openly admitted to not having any insider info. You basically make deductions from other peoples facts. How can you talk facts on the ground. You haven't been to the ground in a long time. According to you everything is great at happiest place on earth. But it's not great enough to get you to go back there

 

[M.rudolf]

In case you missed it:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...unced-next-weekend.781720/page-5#post-4688315

Thank you only 1 of the many flip flops

 

[jt04]

In case you missed it:

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...unced-next-weekend.781720/page-5#post-4688315

Does anyone know how to think anymore? Just wow!

Again, I am saying Disney is not against a successful Legoland. They do not mind viable competition. That DOES NOT mean they will not react to it and counter-program. If the mouse wanted to they could have turned all of the parks in central Florida into a Splendid China dust bowl years and years ago.

So again, Disney wants successful competitors because it wants a thriving central Florida tourist industry that remains the standard on the globe. But that does not mean they intend to just sit idle and not contribute to the cause.

I can't make it any plainer for you.

 

[jt04]

how would you know anything about the facts on the ground? You've openly admitted to not having any insider info. You basically make deductions from other peoples facts. How can you talk facts on the ground. You haven't been to the ground in a long time. According to you everything is great at happiest place on earth. But it's not great enough to get you to go back there

In this case they announced that SM was keeping the original system and that the current system would be refurbed and enhanced. The mouse told me. He told us all. Some were happy, some were bitter. Oh so bitter.

 

[marni1971]

They do not mind viable competition..

Oh they do. They hate it.

They purposely try to smile in public and claim competition is healthy for all, but in the hallowed corridors of the TDO building and elsewhere they despise it. And occasionally say it out loud.

 

[marni1971]

In this case they announced that SM was keeping the original system and that the current system would be refurbed and enhanced. The mouse told me. He told us all. Some were happy, some were bitter. Oh so bitter.

SM as in Space Mountain?

We all know now what a mess the whole refurb was.

 

[jt04]

Oh they do. They hate it.

They purposely try to smile in public and claim competition is healthy for all, but in the hallowed corridors of the TDO building and elsewhere they despise it. And occasionally say it out loud.

I have no doubt that those that have their bonuses impacted might have a problem with lower numbers even if temporary. But the big cheese (and those that matter) prefer ever increasing numbers arriving at MCO.