Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[jt04]

You are missing an important part of the equation here. One that differentiates between what the two of you are saying.
This is not the pendulum swinging back to Orlando. This is Orlando getting nervous (finally) and begging Burbank to let the pendulum swing back. It might....and it might not. At least not in the big way that Orlando wants (needs).
It also sets up a potential power struggle between TDO and TDA/Skipper John. Very interesting times.

And WDI capacity has nothing to do with anything. They designed/built TDL and Epcot at the same time. DCA 2.0 and additions at WDW would not be a strain on their resources.

Tokyo happened where money was not the primary limitation. Certainly not in the way it is today. WDI is not what it was back then unfortunately. So looking at how things were back then likely does not provide an accurate picture.

They only reason Lasseter would have for wanting to slight WDW (assuming you are right) is that he has the idea that DL could one day outdraw the MK. At least that is the only thing that makes sense. But not keeping WDW properly invested in could have a very serious impact on the companies books. Lasseter does not have so much clout that he can engage in such power plays. Not that I believe he is anyway.

 

[Lee]

Lasseter does not have so much clout that he can engage in such power plays. Not that I believe he is anyway.

You would be surprised...
I was.

 

[Mickey_777]

But the thing is Carsland hasn't translated into more guests going thru the turnstiles at DLR as a whole. I've seen multiple reports of the numbers overall in Anaheim staying flat from last year.

Personally, if I want to see Carsland I'll book a trip to DLR. Don't bring it to WDW. Besides RSR's, the rest of the attractions aren't anything special and it's been well documented how slow and inefficient load times are for those rides. It just doesn't make any sense to bring that stuff here IMO.

I'd love to see couple of Pixar Cars and Monsters Inc attraction built to complement TSMM but not a clones from Carsland.

 

[Atomicmickey]

It really isn't about propagating his legacy. He would be fine with a major Pixar expansion in WDW.
It has much more to do with he/them not wanting to share DCA's new signature attraction. Carsland is delivering big time for TDA, drawing guests from all over the western half of the country, and should continue to do so for years.
The fear is that if the same ride pops up at WDW, it would draw a large percentage east rather than west. Simple as that.
Offer Skipper John a $300 million Pixar (but non-Cars) ride at WDW and he will be all over it.

Makes a lot more sense, now.

So, the only reason for a clone must be some sort of "been there, imagineered that" cost savings. It's doubly confusing because, well, RSR is a bit of a Test Track clone. You'd think there would be much more fervor for the Monsters, Inc. coaster, the derailed Kuka Incredibles attraction, or even something new (imagination re-themed to the upcoming 'inside the mind' Pixar movie, perhaps?).

Point being, I'm sure they could come up with something unique that would be as much of a draw. Unless they still have stars in their eyes about Cars merchandise . . .

 

[Jim Handy]

Tokyo happened where money was not the primary limitation. Certainly not in the way it is today. WDI is not what it was back then unfortunately. So looking at how things were back then likely does not provide an accurate picture.

They only reason Lasseter would have for wanting to slight WDW (assuming you are right) is that he has the idea that DL could one day outdraw the MK. At least that is the only thing that makes sense. But not keeping WDW properly invested in could have a very serious impact on the companies books. Lasseter does not have so much clout that he can engage in such power plays. Not that I believe he is anyway.

Woah, woah, woah...

Lasseter wouldn't be slighting WDW. He wouldn't fight against Cars in DHS to slight WDW, he'd fight it because it is important DCA keeps it exclusively.

And this potential project isn't the only way to invest in WDW. There are other options.

And John wields a lot of power. What John wants John almost always gets. And that's why this could be a very interesting corporate power struggle.

 

[jt04]

Makes a lot more sense, now.

So, the only reason for a clone must be some sort of "been there, imagineered that" cost savings. It's doubly confusing because, well, RSR is a bit of a Test Track clone. You'd think there would be much more fervor for the Monsters, Inc. coaster, the derailed Kuka Incredibles attraction, or even something new (imagination re-themed to the upcoming 'inside the mind' Pixar movie, perhaps?).

Point being, I'm sure they could come up with something unique that would be as much of a draw. Unless they still have stars in their eyes about Cars merchandise . . .

It is all about the merchandise. Nothing wrong with that. And TDO should be trying to exploit the franchise too. But a clone of RSR is not only counter-productive it is unnecessary. There are far easier ways to solve the issue and better serve investors. And it is the investors who pay the salaries. Just saying.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Right now TDO is running scared (like a fanboi an at Imagineering party who has just tried a 'special' punch and feels a little 'funny'). They have a stale product. They realize (even if some fanbois don't) FINALLY that the modest Fantasyland project isn't enough and they know getting aliens into DAK is not going to be an easy or quick task at all. They also get that timeshare sales may make the bottom line look vastly better than it should, but those won't last forever.

Hearing you say that has made my day. Finally, they're noticing that the status quo is unacceptable. Now to read through the rest of the posts.

 

[jt04]

Woah, woah, woah...

Lasseter wouldn't be slighting WDW. He wouldn't fight against Cars in DHS to slight WDW, he'd fight it because it is important DCA keeps it exclusively.

And this potential project isn't the only way to invest in WDW. There are other options.

And John wields a lot of power. What John wants John almost always gets. And that's why this could be a very interesting corporate power struggle.

You will make a great pet parrot someday.

 

[danlb_2000]

From another long-time lurker, rare contributor to the conversation:

I'm excited to hear some positive news on this forum (even if mixed with some negative bits). What strikes me most about this conversation (this thread and others) is the continued practice of cost cutting. I'm hardly a business expert, but common sense tells me that while cost-cutting is an important tool within a business' arsenal, it is dangerous to make cost-cutting a key strategy of the business plan. Cost-cutting should be used as a patch for unexpected downturns, but not as a means for long-term improvement of the bottom line.

Unfortunetly, cost cutting has become the new norm. The reason is it's easier to cut costs, and completely in a companies control, then it is to increase revenue. Even if you invest in things to increase your revenue there are outside forces you can't control so there is no gaurentee on the return. On the other hand, if they cut a cost, it leads to immediate and gaurenteed increase in what they report as profit. Not saying I like it, but it's reality.

Dan

 

[Jim Handy]

You will make a great pet parrot someday.

I will take that as a compliment.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

They only reason Lasseter would have for wanting to slight WDW (assuming you are right) is that he has the idea that DL could one day outdraw the MK. At least that is the only thing that makes sense. But not keeping WDW properly invested in could have a very serious impact on the companies books. Lasseter does not have so much clout that he can engage in such power plays. Not that I believe he is anyway.

I don't think Lee's suggesting that John Lasseter wants to slight WDW. What I get out of it is this: So much time and effort went into making DCA a workable park, and RSR is a big reason it's finally a success. I think Lasseter is concerned that cloning RSR at WDW could pull the rug out from under DCA -- create the feeling of "why would I travel to California from (Insert Town here) to see RSR when it's easier for me to get to Florida?", as is the case with a decent portion of the population. What a waste that would be, to put that much into DCA only to undermine the originality of it in a way that may cause visitors to go somewhere else.

If DCA had stronger legs to stand on perhaps there would be less to worry about, and I'm sure in time it will. But right now the park is surpassing expectations, for the first time EVER, and John Lasseter doesn't want to ruin that. Especially not right now.

 

[Lee]

And John wields a lot of power. What John wants John almost always gets. And that's why this could be a very interesting corporate power struggle.

This.
John is the 800lb gorilla at Disney right now. He got RSR's budget up to well over $300mil, he is championing the TL E-Tic in Disneyland, and he has a substantial amount of sway with the Board.

But a clone of RSR is not only counter-productive it is unnecessary.

Yep. Lots of other great concepts out there. TDO just wants TDA's shiny new toy because of how big and impressive it is. Plus it has been built and experienced by guests. Easier to sell that than a piece of concept art.

I don't think Lee's suggesting that John Lasseter wants to slight WDW. What I get out of it is this: So much time and effort went into making DCA a workable park, and RSR is a big reason it's finally a success. I think Lasseter is concerned that cloning RSR at WDW could pull the rug out from under DCA --

Bingo.

 

[culturenthrills]

Is TDO running scared? They had to be shocked how fast Universal has fast tracked Transformers The Ride and that they plan to build it in 13 months. They wish they could move that fast on a project. I think Universal should keep going and go ahead and fast track one of the ideas they have for Seuss Landing so they can turn around and have something open in the first half of 2014 before Potter 2.0 opens.

And if they are going to bring Carsland here either bring an updated version of the current land not some half assed version. We know Luigi's is a failure but hey maybe some other new ride concept to go with RSR so it is a little bit different. The only thing with WDW sucky maintenance how often would we see broke animatronics if we got RSR?

They have projects they could greenlight right now. i would much rather see Monster Inc hide and seek instead of the door coaster. They need a family friendly ride with high capacity. How hard would it be to come up with some new shows to replace the ancient ones they have and restore the parade from the joke it is now.

The Studios would need more than RSR to fix all the problems it has.

 

[Mickey_777]

It really isn't about propagating his legacy. He would be fine with a major Pixar expansion in WDW.
It has much more to do with he/them not wanting to share DCA's new signature attraction. Carsland is delivering big time for TDA, drawing guests from all over the western half of the country, and should continue to do so for years.
The fear is that if the same ride pops up at WDW, it would draw a large percentage east rather than west. Simple as that.
Offer Skipper John a $300 million Pixar (but non-Cars) ride at WDW and he will be all over it.

^^^This. Let's hope the possibility of his baby coming to WDW gets Lasseter fighting to the point where DHS gets another Pixar attraction(s) and a healthy budget. And John at the helm of coarse.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Disney finally blinked and admitted (years too late) that it indeed is involved in a war ... and if it isn't careful, in a few years could see many longtime guests who would stay for 10 nights, suddenly not staying on property at all and visiting for only 2-3 days. There is HUGE concern. And considering the arrogant, greedy bunch, that's saying plenty.

Us realistic fans have been saying this for a while now. Theme Park Wars are indeed going on, and if the two companies truly want to do battle we as consumers should reep the benefits with fantastic new attractions. We've seen some fantastic additions with Forbidden Journey, Transformers and Radiator Springs Racers, here's hoping that's just the tip of the iceberg (and no, that's not a James Cameron reference).

 

[culturenthrills]

Disney has done this since the late 90s, 9/11 just gave them an excuse to make them more drastic. What I wouldn't give for another great Spoodles lunch or Bonfamille's dinner. ... Occupancy across property hasn't met projections and August is when things slow down to begin with (hence, free dining always being offered ... well, since 2005 anyway) that time of year. One resort may be sold out (of its 'available' occupancy) tonight, but it doesn't matter if others are much worse.

And, yes, the cuts feel like a lighter version of post 9/11.

Again, when was the last time WDW didn't keep the MK open one night until midnight in August?

Yeah, I noticed all of a sudden for August they have been offering florida residents rate of $66 a night sun-thurs at all stars. I don't think I have seen it that low in a awhile and also offering florida residents 2 night play, stay and dine pkgs at low rates.

Also, I can't believe the cut in hours. DHS and MK having the same operating hours crazy. MK closing at 10pm on a Saturday night. There are many Sat nights in the off season MK is open until midnight.

Yeah and lets cut entertainment. It is the one thing that helps make the parks feel not as stale and lifeless as they are. Great move.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Also, I've heard DHS isn't the only park under the microscope at the moment, and Epcot may be making its way in to the picture. Strictly rumor and I have no details. All I can say is things are heating up on that front. Disney is inspired by Test Track it seems.

We all know that Epcot is stale. World Showcase has remained relatively unchanged since 1988 and the dining plan has hurt much of it's appeal IMO. Having said that, the heart of World Showcase is still there which is a good thing. On the other hand, Future World is a mess. The new, replacing the old has been met with mixed reviews. Many people really enjoy Soarin' and Test Track, and I'm optimistic that Test Track 2.0 will help out Future World even further. But Spaceship Earth needs a change to the message of the attraction. I don't mind Judy Dench's voice, but the script needs to change and the current ending needs to move to the post show. The stale/empty pavilions (Imagination, Energy, Wonders of Life) need to be addressed, and they need to be addressed with a look towards E.P.C.O.T. Center - In my opinion, that's the strongest way to revitalize Future World.

 

[ellie-badge]

I read elsewhere on the forums that John Lasseter would've loved to have Radiator Springs Racers cloned in other parks, particularly the ones overseas. I guess that's not true?

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Believe it or not, both.

TDO has execs literally poohing their pants because they have watched their numbers and UNI's and they are projecting things to get even worse even with two Dumbos (imagine that?!?!) or you wouldn't see all the cost-cutting that you will (and for every cut you see on stage, rest assured there are 3-4 backstage that you can't see).

But Burbank is starting to grasp that the situation could have big problems for P&R's numbers in the years ahead. Smoke, mirrors and marketing has kept attendance basically flat.

UNI's numbers keep going up. Their numbers in Hollywood this summer have shocked even the Comcast execs ... and that's just with Transformers.

Disney finally blinked and admitted (years too late) that it indeed is involved in a war ... and if it isn't careful, in a few years could see many longtime guests who would stay for 10 nights, suddenly not staying on property at all and visiting for only 2-3 days. There is HUGE concern. And considering the arrogant, greedy bunch, that's saying plenty.

This is us. From 2006 to 2011 we went to WDW 8 times for no less than 9 nights, 10 days each trip. 2 of those trips were in value resorts, 2 in moderates, and 4 in deluxes. This year we've spent exactly 2 nights at POP. We've stepped into the 4 parks a total of NONE. We went to 1 water park for 1 day. That's it. Next month the old man & I are flying into Orlando to go on another cruise out of Port Canaveral. How many nights pre-cruise are we spending at WDW? Not 1. We're staying at the airport and not even wasting time going out there. This family of long-time guests are done until things improve. The FLE is next to nothing to us. I have 2 teenage sons. Um, doesn't really appeal. Granted, Disney is getting our money in the long run but it's not via TDO's mess. I hope this is a sign that the bottom is in sight and Anaheim is going to intervene. I really do.

And, I agree with others. RSRs needs to stay in CA. Give guests reasons to go to both coasts! Homogenizing is NOT the answer!

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I read elsewhere on the forums that John Lasseter would've loved to have Radiator Springs Racers cloned in other parks, particularly the ones overseas. I guess that's not true?

I won't pretend I have any insider information here, I don't, but I would think cloning RSR Overseas would be far less detrimental to DCA's attendance than cloning it at WDW, so I don't think what you're suggesting is impossible. I'd love to see what someone with more insight thinks.