Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[sgtmgd]

Right now all of this is speculation..WDW has posted an excellent summation of things....as with all things Disney we will have to wait and see...as the saying gos if you dont like the weather...wait ten miutes and it will change.....I certainly hope DHS gets some added help...and Avatar breaks ground..either way I have my next 2 trips booked..and will enjoy myself while Im there...Scrims or not

 

[jt04]

Oh WDW74 you are always so late to the party. I have been saying for a couple years (at least!) that once DCA 2.0 was completed then TWDC would focus again on WDW. That Uni, Sea World and Legoland decided to invest heavily in Central Florida only served to ensure the "pendulum" would swing back to WDW. It was an inevitable part of the business cycle that has always existed at WDW. And likely always will. And I think you know this but you would rather give people the impression it is part of some "spirited change". The narcissism is just too much. But even more disturbing is those that do not see right through it.

WDI only has so much capacity and that keeps them from doing more. Simple math and physics. So until Imagineers are replaced by artificial intelligence and robots the parks will be subject to a business cycle.

 

[Kuhio]

I think [Mystic Manor] could be made to fit that corner of the park nicely with a few modifications (obviously a land with fantastical creatures). And then replace Rainforest with the Adventurers Club (awaits the collective groan of everyone.) But I'm just a bitter AC fan who is jealous of HKDL's shiny, semi-stolen toys.

Well, Mystic Manor does prominently feature a monkey... which is an animal... which is the theme of DAK...

Seriously though, while part of me would love to see Mystic Manor (and its neighboring Adventurers Club restaurant) surface a bit closer to home, I really hope that it stays a HKDL exclusive. And, as much as I love Pooh's Hunny Hunt... and the Matterhorn Bobsleds... and as much as I know I'll enjoy RSR (very soon now!) and as much as I'm looking forward to the Ratatouille attraction coming to DSP... I also fervently hope that those attractions will stay unique to their respective parks forever.

Over the last decade, as I've spent more time in the international parks, I've really come to have a distaste for clones -- even well-executed clones of beloved attractions. It just feels a little bit like a failure of imagination -- the easy way out.

When I first visited TDL in the '90s, it was reassuring to find a park that was, at that point, very much like the MK with a bit of DL thrown in. It was comforting -- like going to a different city in a different state, and walking into a Target or Home Depot that felt just like the one right by your house.

By the time I made it back to the TDR years later, I'd had a lot more experience traveling and seeing things beyond the comfort level I had as a younger person -- and the things I loved most about the resort on the second go-around were precisely the things that were different, fresh, and unique... that set it apart from other Disney parks.

That's not to say that I want Disney to depart from its longtime aspirations in regard to theme park attractions -- quite the opposite. While I don't want a RSR or a Hunny Hunt at WDW, I want something just as good -- with the same high production values, theming, and creativity -- but something wholly unique that we can proudly call our own.

 

[jt04]

Simple solution for the need of some sort of "Cars" based land at WDW was suggested by someone on this forum. Build a Cars themed autopia rather than RSR. This would work perfectly at DHS, would be much much cheaper, would not create a duplicate ride system (Test Track is being refurbed to last at least another decade or two) and would allow for the raceway to be removed at the MK AND allow for the closure of the Back Lot tour.

That is a Win-Win-Win-Win-Win if you ask me.

 

[CinematicFusion]

This has everything to do with the increasing liklihood of a double-dip recession and not anything to do with operations unique to WDW. DLR would be having similar concerns if not for DCA 2.0. In fact I think they are going to extra efforts to keep wait times inflated. Global tourism is a leading indicator and judging by London's Olympics numbers (or lack thereof) the problem is global.

I agree with this, the economy is in terrible shape. People feel we will be worse off in the next 5 years as opposed to 1998 when everyone thought we would be better off in the next 5 years.
Everything is pointing to another recession so I'm sure those numbers are reflected when we start to examine family vacation plans.

 

[Kuhio]

I've always really wanted to LOVE the studios, but I could never get past the friend stage.

For me, DHS has been stuck at the "friends-with-benefits" stage since the late '90s... I'll spend an hour or two of afternoon delight there, but after the thrill's worn off, I'll slink away elsewhere for a nice dinner with my classier friends.

 

[wiigirl]

Simple solution for the need of some sort of "Cars" based land at WDW was suggested by someone on this forum. Build a Cars themed autopia rather than RSR. This would work perfectly at DHS, would be much much cheaper, would not create a duplicate ride system (Test Track is being refurbed to last at least another decade or two) and would allow for the raceway to be removed at the MK AND allow for the closure of the Back Lot tour.

That is a Win-Win-Win-Win-Win if you ask me.

Sounds good to me!

 

[Jim Handy]

Longtime lurker, relatively new poster here.

I'd posted this over on one of the Snow White coaster threads (multiple threads for one kiddie coaster, can you believe that?!) but thought it might be appropriate here as it sums up my feelings on WDW/FLE...

That clip is perfect.

And, what an under utilized property that is....

 

[Kevin_W]

What, did the "Two coasts: One very different world" thread get bumped off the first page so the same poster had to restart the same thread? Yeesh.

 

[Jim Handy]

Oh WDW74 you are always so late to the party. I have been saying for a couple years (at least!) that once DCA 2.0 was completed then TWDC would focus again on WDW. That Uni, Sea World and Legoland decided to invest heavily in Central Florida only served to ensure the "pendulum" would swing back to WDW. It was an inevitable part of the business cycle that has always existed at WDW. And likely always will. And I think you know this but you would rather give people the impression it is part of some "spirited change". The narcissism is just too much. But even more disturbing is those that do not see right through it.

WDI only has so much capacity and that keeps them from doing more. Simple math and physics. So until Imagineers are replaced by artificial intelligence and robots the parks will be subject to a business cycle.

Everyone assumed that WDW would get some love when DCA was done. It only made sense. But it looked like it wasn't going to happen. Keep in mind none of this a done deal. Projects have come closer than the DHS plan and had the rug pulled out at the last minute.

There is a change happening or getting ready to happen very soon. From Orlando to Burbank things could be vastly different in 2/3 years and everyone who's called the shots and led WDW to where it is will be held accountable. This change is because Disney has realized they are not the only game in town. There is finally someone else putting themselves in the class Disney created. You may not want to admit it, but Universal is changing the game.

 

[Jim Handy]

What, did the "Two coasts: One very different world" thread get bumped off the first page so the same poster had to restart the same thread? Yeesh.

The stuff '74 shared is worth it's own thread. This forum has enough backseat moderators.

But thank you.

 

[Jim Handy]

And just a reminder to everyone that Disney is releasing Q3 earnings today. I'd suggest you all pay attention to especially the theme park numbers. They usually give occupancy, attendance change, guest spending numbers, etc. However, they bundle the domestic numbers together, (Thanks, Harry....) so it is hard to get a read on how WDW is doing as its own resort.

If Spirit is right on the occupancy numbers, I'd expect that stat to go unreleased, as it would certainly bring down the domestic average, no matter what the numbers in CA are.

 

[Lee]

Oh WDW74 you are always so late to the party. I have been saying for a couple years (at least!) that once DCA 2.0 was completed then TWDC would focus again on WDW. That Uni, Sea World and Legoland decided to invest heavily in Central Florida only served to ensure the "pendulum" would swing back to WDW. It was an inevitable part of the business cycle that has always existed at WDW. And likely always will. And I think you know this but you would rather give people the impression it is part of some "spirited change". The narcissism is just too much. But even more disturbing is those that do not see right through it.

WDI only has so much capacity and that keeps them from doing more. Simple math and physics. So until Imagineers are replaced by artificial intelligence and robots the parks will be subject to a business cycle.

You are missing an important part of the equation here. One that differentiates between what the two of you are saying.
This is not the pendulum swinging back to Orlando. This is Orlando getting nervous (finally) and begging Burbank to let the pendulum swing back. It might....and it might not. At least not in the big way that Orlando wants (needs).
It also sets up a potential power struggle between TDO and TDA/Skipper John. Very interesting times.

And WDI capacity has nothing to do with anything. They designed/built TDL and Epcot at the same time. DCA 2.0 and additions at WDW would not be a strain on their resources.

 

[Atomicmickey]

The thing that gives me the most concern, in the face of what otherwise seems like FINALLY
some optimism, is the global economy. Fingers crossed on that one, because that isn't
something that you, or I, or Disney can do anything about.

What I am hoping for is, it's WDW's turn to do what Disneyland has been doing . . . hoping . . .

Thanks for this!

 

[IWant2GoNow]

I look forward to hearing more Spirit whispers in the near future. This may be the most significant sounding post that I've read since I joined this forum. Once again, thanks to our insiders for all they do.

 

[habuma]

From another long-time lurker, rare contributor to the conversation:

I'm excited to hear some positive news on this forum (even if mixed with some negative bits). What strikes me most about this conversation (this thread and others) is the continued practice of cost cutting. I'm hardly a business expert, but common sense tells me that while cost-cutting is an important tool within a business' arsenal, it is dangerous to make cost-cutting a key strategy of the business plan. Cost-cutting should be used as a patch for unexpected downturns, but not as a means for long-term improvement of the bottom line.

The fact is, you can only cut costs so much before the only cost left to cut is to shut down the business completely. The better long-term strategy is to seek opportunity to bring in revenue to *at least* cover the costs you have and (better yet) bring profit to invest in more money making. It's a snowball effect either way. If you cut costs, you can't afford to invest, which means you lose opportunity to make money, which leads to more cost-cutting. But if you invest (and do so wisely) then you can reap rewards, use those rewards to invest further, leading to more rewards and (in Disney's case) leads to an overall better experience for all parties involved.

I'm relatively new to the discussion of WDW vs. DCA/DL vs. Uni, but it appears to me that Uni and the folks in Anaheim understand this. It's encouraging to hear from WDW1974 that perhaps TDO is starting to get it, too.

That said, I'm extremely excited about the possibility of seeing Cars Land next year if my family and I are able to make a trip out to California. We were there last year while it was still being built and the views over the construction wall were breathtaking; I can only imagine what it's like to be on the other side of the wall. But I also agree that I'd like to see *innovation* on that same level in WDW, but not a carbon-copy of it. I'm one of the rare people who actually *likes* DHS (and I like it a lot), but I agree it needs some work. I don't think Cars Land is what it needs...but I greatly enjoy the discussions being had around a Pixar Place with a more broad Pixar presence (beyond Cars and Toy Story), as well as some of the other ideas being tossed around. My only request is that the streetmosphere not be removed/changed/reduced in the near future, as I've only recently become familiar with the Citizens of Hollywood (have completely missed out on them in my past trips to DHS) and hope to be able to catch a few shows in my future travels to WDW (starting with our next trip at the beginning of December).

 

[Atomicmickey]

You are missing an important part of the equation here. One that differentiates between what the two of you are saying.
This is not the pendulum swinging back to Orlando. This is Orlando getting nervous (finally) and begging Burbank to let the pendulum swing back. It might....and it might not. At least not in the big way that Orlando wants (needs).
It also sets up a potential power struggle between TDO and TDA/Skipper John. Very interesting times.

And WDI capacity has nothing to do with anything. They designed/built TDL and Epcot at the same time. DCA 2.0 and additions at WDW would not be a strain on their resources.

Lee, what I don't get, is why "Skipper John" would have any problem at all with propagating his
legacy out around the globe, in all the parks. It would seem to be the logical thing to do. Maybe
just because being "hands on" across the country is tougher, or something. But I'd think in the
case of his properties, more is more, as far as building a legacy.

I don't know or get the innards, and I understand loyalty to one's local team, but I'd think
that he, and anyone else at that level, would be thinking globally, more than locally.

 

[jt04]

Everyone assumed that WDW would get some love when DCA was done. It only made sense. But it looked like it wasn't going to happen. Really? According to who? Keep in mind none of this a done deal. None of what? They are still deciding how to react but that they will react is a near certainty. See Pandora. Per Rhode it IS a done deal. Projects have come closer than the DHS plan and had the rug pulled out at the last minute. Stating the obvious we are all aware of. But the pendulum is unstoppable at this point. We just do not know what will be approved. Yet.

There is a change happening or getting ready to happen very soon. As I have said for at least 2 years. From Orlando to Burbank things could be vastly different in 2/3 years and everyone who's called the shots and led WDW to where it is will be held accountable. This happened a couple years ago. This change is because Disney has realized they are not the only game in town. This happened a couple decades ago. There is finally someone else putting themselves in the class Disney created. Really? Never would have guessed increased competition was occuring from the likes of Legoland et al. You may not want to admit it, but Universal is changing the game. No, Universal realized it had to do a whole lot more to compete with the mouse. And now they have the investors to do so.[/quote]

Are you sure you have been lurking here as long as you claim because you really seem uninformed. BTW, there is no charge for all the quality knowledge I just dropped on you.

 

[Lee]

Lee, what I don't get, is why "Skipper John" would have any problem at all with propagating his
legacy out around the globe, in all the parks. It would seem to be the logical thing to do. Maybe
just because being "hands on" across the country is tougher, or something. But I'd think in the
case of his properties, more is more, as far as building a legacy.

I don't know or get the innards, and I understand loyalty to one's local team, but I'd think
that he, and anyone else at that level, would be thinking globally, more than locally.

It really isn't about propagating his legacy. He would be fine with a major Pixar expansion in WDW.
It has much more to do with he/them not wanting to share DCA's new signature attraction. Carsland is delivering big time for TDA, drawing guests from all over the western half of the country, and should continue to do so for years.
The fear is that if the same ride pops up at WDW, it would draw a large percentage east rather than west. Simple as that.
Offer Skipper John a $300 million Pixar (but non-Cars) ride at WDW and he will be all over it.

 

[Jim Handy]

JT, I'm informed beyond the forums and more informed than you.

Everyone who would know said there was no significant movement in any project as late as June.

I think you are over stating the certainty that Disney will react. They are looking at it, and it seems more likely they will. But nothing is a certainty.

People have not been held accountable. Give me a year when you've seen good positive change. Because things are worse than ever. Disney took a stance against Universal in 1989, but they never posed a significant threat, until now. Now they've made a dent.

Universal is offering a higher quality experience with innovative and compelling attractions. Disney isn't matching that right now, it's Universal's game.

Again, JT. I've been lurking here for years. And my knowledge goes well beyond what I read here.