Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[CinematicFusion]

The number I hear is every 3.75 years. But that's also the time frame for the average family to return. The question then becomes, if they add new offerings more frequently, will that same family visit more frequently?

No, I would get a burn out. Family trip every 4 years would be fine. Unless I happened to be in the area, I wouldn't go back to any theme park every year...even if they had a major e ticket added.
The theme park isn't going to disappear and the ride can wait.

However...a great ride would bring me back

 

[jt04]

No, Roy E. Disney had the vision and he made it happen. While Roy and Stanley Gold waged war with their Save Disney campaign, Iger was Eisner's loyal lieutenant but was clever enough to keep enough of a distance that he was acceptable enough to Roy to take Eisner's job after he had been ousted. I'll give Iger credit, he has done some very smart things as CEO with the Pixar deal at the top of the list; Eisner was supremely stupid to let the Disney/Pixar relationship detoritate but Iger's efforts to repair it have, I think, been vindicated and he made a brilliant decision in putting John Lasseter and Ed Catmull in charge at WDAS and giving Lasseter a key role in the redevelopment of DCA. I don't think Iger is a great leader but I also don't think he's done as bad a job as others believe to be the case. He's been perfectly adequate as CEO, there hasn't been any of the drama that Eisner's reign had and I think he will leave the company in a far better position than the one he inherited when Eisner left and he deserves a lot of credit for that. Iger didn't side with Roy when Save Disney implemented great change within the company, he remained loyal to the board that employed him but he managed to win Roy and the other doubters round and repaired a lot of the damage that had been left by his predecessor. The current state of WDW is regrettable but, if the rumours of the past couple of days are to be believed, that might soon be rectified and if Iger steps aside with a clear plan for those improvements in place, I think he and his legacy will be viewed more positively than it is right now, it certainly will by myself in any case.

We will have to agree to disagree. I understand what you are claiming but Iger inherited a mess that could easily have turned bad. He has made hundreds of strategic decisions and many were timed quite deliberately to ensure success.

It is my opinion that Iger needs challanges. Kind of like a mountain climber who has climbed a peak and then seeks out another because repeating the same feat just would not bring the same satisfaction.

He has saved TWDC and so he will move on to new challanges. That is how I read it anyway.

PS The rumors of WDWs restoral do not go back days but rather years. Just search my postings and the word "pendulum". Heh.

 

[TimeTrip]

Like I said I quit calling him that. It couldn't be clearer.

So you're saying that you are re-appropriating your past opinion which may have flip-flopped in order to support the current situation to prove you called it correctly? It sure seems that way...

 

[FrankLapidus]

We will have to agree to disagree. I understand what you are claiming but Iger inherited a mess that could easily have turned bad. He has made hundreds of strategic decisions and many were timed quite deliberately to ensure success.

It is my opinion that Iger needs challanges. Kind of like a mountain climber who has climbed a peak and then seeks out another because repeating the same feat just would not bring the same satisfaction.

He has saved TWDC and so he will move on to new challanges. That is how I read it anyway.

PS The rumors of WDWs restoral do not go back days but rather years. Just search my postings and the word "pendulum". Heh.

Personally, I would say that Roy and Stanley Gold saved the company but that Iger has led it quite smoothly into a new era. I agree that he inherited a mess, one that at times seemed insurmountable to try and rectify, and that he has done a better job in repairing some of those problems than I thought he was initially capable of doing. Perhaps you know more about his plans for WDW's restoral than I do but based purely on what we've heard over the last couple of days, if those come to fruition in a significant way then I think his time as CEO will be remembered a lot more fondly by fans of the company.

Interesting analogy about the mountain climber, I thought you were talking about Frank Wells there for a moment.

 

[jt04]

So you're saying that you are re-appropriating your past opinion which may have flip-flopped in order to support the current situation to prove you called it correctly? It sure seems that way...

Actually I was told to back off using the sheriff analogy. Or at least stop connecting it to anyone specific. It made too many people a bit paranoid.

 

[jt04]

Personally, I would say that Roy and Stanley Gold saved the company but that Iger has led it quite smoothly into a new era. I agree that he inherited a mess, one that at times seemed insurmountable to try and rectify, and that he has done a better job in repairing some of those problems than I thought he was initially capable of doing. Perhaps you know more about his plans for WDW's restoral than I do but based purely on what we've heard over the last couple of days, if those come to fruition in a significant way then I think his time as CEO will be remembered a lot more fondly by fans of the company.

Interesting analogy about the mountain climber, I thought you were talking about Frank Wells there for a moment.

I think it is an analogy that works with most acheievers. Never thought of Frank Wells but you are right.

I think they are still deciding what they want to do at WDW in addition to Pandora. But I have no doubt Iger will "leave a legacy" at WDW.

Great posting BTW.

 

[WDW1974]

JT, you ignored my question, so I assume you don't have an answer. How will FLE be an amazing success? Increased attendance? More spending per visitor? Or is this just more of the hot air you spew?

He's excellent at that. And he's been particularly nasty of late. Guess that troll gave him energy.

Right now (oops, shouldn't have started posting, need to run but ...) Disney is hoping beyond hope that FLE covers all of the other cutbacks they will be making and all the price increases. I don't see that as being reality at all ... More tonight (so, JT, fire up them Sheriff references and those RAH-RAH, WHOO-HOO TDO's!)

 

[jt04]

JT, you ignored my question, so I assume you don't have an answer. How will FLE be an amazing success? Increased attendance? More spending per visitor? Or is this just more of the hot air you spew?

This is one of those things that it is best to let speak for itself. Like watching Michael Jordan at his peak; did we really need the commentators? The FLE will speak for itself by the crowds it attracts and the praise of the people.

But since you insist.....

I would refer you to the the Fantasyland sub-forum. Steve has posted a brand new set of aerial photos. They speak for themselves. And I expect (just my theory) that the entire MK will get this treatment over time. But back to the FLE. Do yourself a favor and read the entire thread. You will see many posters who do not engage in the cynical need to bash everything that happens at WDW. What you see are posters that just enjoy WDW for the most part. You can't help but identify with their genuine excitement. This will be the same reaction the average guest will have especially those who are not really aware of this massive new area. It will be stunning to them and even moreso at night.

Now our resident cynics will break it down into something like, "it is only a borderline d ticket and a bad restaurant and a few m&g's". That is such a grotesque oversimplification that those spewing it should be held in contempt by anyone with any sense at all. Don't fall victim to these cynics and their bitter manipulations. You must be better than that.

 

[devoy1701]

I think mainly they do not want to be caught with too few accomadations. I think at times in the past that has happenened and that is much more damaging to the bottom line than too many rooms. Occupancy rates are a concern of stock holders and stuff accountants have to deal with. The average guest just does not care about it.

However, if someone suddenly decides they want a room at a certain time at a specific resort and the mouse has to say no because of a lack of inventory then that creates a much more negative impact on the guest not to mention the bottom line. So I am of the opinion they would rather have too many rooms. I think you will see Uni's new hotel open sooner than their newest offerings for the same reason. Certainly well before Potter 2.0.

As for TDA vs TDO, I really do not think there is anything to that. The DLR's needs were more serious so they got the attention. Now the pendulum swings back to WDW. TDA will fight for what the think they need and TDO will do the same. But ultimately one person will make the final decision.

That's seriously your take on over building hotel rooms and low occupancy rates????

 

[jt04]

That's seriously your take on over building hotel rooms and low occupancy rates????

This is seriously your take on my take?

 

[Tom Morrow]

some people need to stop rallying behind FLE and realize the highly unlikelyhood of FLE having anywhere near the impact of WWoHP. It will do it's job of expanding the park's capacity. It will most likely look very nice. But where is the "WOW!" factor? Sure, for rides, WWoHP only added one, and re-themed two. But that one new ride is a jaw-dropping, theme park industry re-defining E-ticket. FLE doesn't have that.

 

[FrankLapidus]

Judging by the photos posted on the site earlier, what has been completed of the FLE so far does look amazing and I'm really disappointed that it won't be open when we visit next month. Whether it will be enough to satisfy everyone in the wake of Harry Potter's success remains to be seen but I won't judge it yet, at least not until its completed in 2014 with the opening of the mine coaster. The high probability is that it won't emulate Potter but I think it looks great nonetheless. Could it have done with an E-Ticket? Yeah, but the same could be said of every park at the moment (in one or two parks maybe more than on E-Ticket is required). Either way, the current FLE looks far better than the original plans that Jay Rasulo announced at D23 which was basically a cluster of elaborate but unecessary M&G's and I think it will be a success.

I do have a question for WDW74 or any other insider who might be able to answer; when the expansion was announced, I read that there was still space remaining for them to go back and add more to the area in the future. Is that still the case or is the current expansion bigger than originally planned and taken up that extra space?

 

[Lee]

What did they think was going to happen? Did they really think their market share
was unassailable? And this new thinking--did it come from outside, are they being
TOLD by the West coast, "time to get your act together", or did TDO management
wake up and say "DOH!"?

They were over confident. Their belief was that they could run promotions (Celebrate Today! Memories!) and use the heavy nostalgia factor that WDW has to weather any storm or overcome anything Uni threw at them.
They were wrong. Uni's success has surpassed TDO's projections while WDW's numbers are down in every metric from room occupancy to guest spend to guest satisfaction.

This change, if it really even is one, comes from TDO realizing that their game of smoke and mirrors has started to fail. When promotions, "discounts", "free" dining and a Fantasyland expansion aren't drawing the numbers they need....it's panic time. Because they've been doing it so long, many of them don't know another way. Naturally, their first inclination is to look west and try to copy what is working out there.

A potential problem I see is how are they going to reverse what they have done for the last decade plus. And they will have to at some point. Stop discounting rooms, end the free and discounted dining, and build attractions instead of trying to sell "Magic" and memories. Gonna be a painful process.

 

[Adam5897]

People seem to think by cloning cars land from DCA that all of the problems will be solved. Cars land needs to stay where it is in DCA it is an amazing and a clone would ruin its uniqueness. It is going to take more than a already popular land to go to DHS to fix all the problems. Disney needs to come up with creative new ideas for attractions and lands just like it was done in DCA with cars land

 

[devoy1701]

Judging by the photos posted on the site earlier, what has been completed of the FLE so far does look amazing and I'm really disappointed that it won't be open when we visit next month. Whether it will be enough to satisfy everyone in the wake of Harry Potter's success remains to be seen but I won't judge it yet, at least not until its completed in 2014 with the opening of the mine coaster. The high probability is that it won't emulate Potter but I think it looks great nonetheless. Could it have done with an E-Ticket? Yeah, but the same could be said of every park at the moment (in one or two parks maybe more than on E-Ticket is required). Either way, the current FLE looks far better than the original plans that Jay Rasulo announced at D23 which was basically a cluster of elaborate but unecessary M&G's and I think it will be a success.

I do have a question for WDW74 or any other insider who might be able to answer; when the expansion was announced, I read that there was still space remaining for them to go back and add more to the area in the future. Is that still the case or is the current expansion bigger than originally planned and taken up that extra space?

There is a plot of land available behind the tents of Storybook Circus where Pixie Hollow was supposed to go. You can see it on the earliest artwork for the expansion

 

[Atomicmickey]

They were over confident. Their belief was that they could run promotions (Celebrate Today! Memories!) and use the heavy nostalgia factor that WDW has to weather any storm or overcome anything Uni threw at them.
They were wrong. Uni's success has surpassed TDO's projections while WDW's numbers are down in every metric from room occupancy to guest spend to guest satisfaction.

This change, if it really even is one, comes from TDO realizing that their game of smoke and mirrors has started to fail. When promotions, "discounts", "free" dining and a Fantasyland expansion aren't drawing the numbers they need....it's panic time. Because they've been doing it so long, many of them don't know another way. Naturally, their first inclination is to look west and try to copy what is working out there.

A potential problem I see is how are they going to reverse what they have done for the last decade plus. And they will have to at some point. Stop discounting rooms, end the free and discounted dining, and build attractions instead of trying to sell "Magic" and memories. Gonna be a painful process.

Yeah, at some point, they'd have to come out with a "Remember the Memories of Your Magical Memories--Again!" campaign, I was thinking.

At some point, if they put up a fight, though, and the numbers aren't there, "but, but . . " will cease
to be an excuse, and some heads will roll, right?

Maybe the only reason they haven't is because all the Parks and Resorts are rolled together, covering
up the decline to the shareholders.

I'll tell ya what, my fingers are mighty crossed . . .

 

[ellie-badge]

People seem to think by cloning cars land from DCA that all of the problems will be solved. Cars land needs to stay where it is in DCA it is an amazing and a clone would ruin its uniqueness. It is going to take more than a already popular land to go to DHS to fix all the problems. Disney needs to come up with creative new ideas for attractions and lands just like it was done in DCA with cars land

I couldn't agree with you more!

Believe me when I say that I'd give almost anything to see Cars Land in person, much less the entirety of The Disneyland Resort. Everything over on the west coast looks absolutely amazing and really packs a wicked punch when it comes to getting people interested to visit, but that's precisely it. Cars Land is currently the biggest draw The Disneyland Resort, specifically Disney California Adventure, has. Building a carbon copy of the area over on the east coast would take away that huge draw for them. A really good analogy somebody else on the forums used was inserting a copy of Spaceship Earth over on the west coast. It takes away Epcot's uniqueness, and doing the reverse with Cars Land would take away Disney California Adventure's.

Walt Disney World deserves to have their own wicked punch that peaks everybody's interest... not going the lazy route and tainting a sister park's success to cover their @$$.

 

[Lee]

This is one of those things that it is best to let speak for itself. Like watching Michael Jordan at his peak; did we really need the commentators? The FLE will speak for itself by the crowds it attracts and the praise of the people.

Praise? Yes. It will be a beautifully themed area that makes the rest of Fantasyland look bad by comparison.

The crowds it attracts? Not so much. It will likely be the most crowded part of MK for sure, at least for the first couple of years. But the majority of that crowd will be guests that would be there anyway. Even TDO has never expected a huge increase in turnstile clicks for MK because of FLE.

I look forward to comparing the percentage of increase differences between MK with/without FLE and IoA with/without Potter. I can already make a nice prediction of how it will look.

 

[Adam5897]

speaking of copies, I know that the little mermaid ride is the same in NFE as it is in DCA but i hope that the imagineers adressed some problems and added a few different things instead of being lazy and just completely having the same ride. Where is the imagination? Budgets and quick construction seems to be the only guidelines lately to these new attractions at all disney parks. I am aware that disney is a business and money and time matter but so do quality, technology, and creativity. Its things like this that I think would make Walt unhappy. And at the end of the day isnt what walt originally intended what the imagineers should be doing?

 

[NoChesterHester]

There is a plot of land available behind the tents of Storybook Circus where Pixie Hollow was supposed to go. You can see it on the earliest artwork for the expansion

Yup. There are several other vacant expansion pads around other areas of the park. Additionally TSI or Tomorrowland Speedway could be sacrificed to open up prime land for development of future attractions.

The Magic Kingdom has no shortage of expansion space.