Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[WDW1974]

Remember the worst group in all of that, Strategic Planning? Those people are still around and still surround Iger. So how can Iger be so much different than Eisner when he (Iger) still surrounds himself with the most despised of those whom Eisner surrounded himself?

Why don't people 'get' this?

Stupidity? Pixie Dust?

Look where Wonder Boy Staggs came from and how they tout him as a legit future CEO (won't happen ... well, at Disney anyway ... maybe at some cruise line or hair salon chain).

 

[WDW1974]

I think Iger is just a different person in a lot of ways. And I think it really is as simple as recognizing the need to streamline operations especially at WDW. Most businesses have had to do this to compete in an increasingly competitive global economy. TDO was ripe for reorganizing. I am sure there were some who realized it and adjusted and survived. Others did not and that is always somewhat sad.

Are you talking about the bloodletting of 2009 of important oldtimers and mid-level managers who worked front-line so that the bottom line wouldn't look as bas as it should have?

Or are you talking about the ones that will becoming in early 2013 (look at it as MAGICal holiday gifts) IF Disney can't get its Orlando numbers up?

I just want to be clear because I DO know what I am speaking of. You are tossing opinion out of your as usual.

But nobody can say I did not say there was a new sheriff in town way back when. If you read Disney War again and focus on Iger he does come across as a man of great character.

I took a lot of heat from people here back then and even quit calling him sheriff for a time because of it. Not anymore. He is a great leader. Roy Disney had the vision to save TWDC but Iger made it happen.

I guess I read a different book ... and save the company? All he did was takeover from Michael, mend a few fences and do business as usual. You make it seem like the WDW ... TWDC of 2012 is being run so much differently than TWDC of 2002. It just isn't. Don't believe me? Fine. Ask people in the industry. Ask Wall Street analysts. Ask media followers.

But Bob Iger's Disney is about 85% Michael Eisner's. That IS reality.

 

[jt04]

I don't see your average, non-Disney fanatic making a special trip to WDW to see FLE.

What's the major draw?

What's the attraction Disney can promote in commercials and TV specials?

There's no hook.

And Ariel ain't Harry Potter.

The FLE is just the foundation for the future of the MK IMO. It was never meant to be a Potter Swatter. Of course they can't shut down the MK to give it an "Extreme Makeover" (see what I did there) but I sincerely believe this is a continuation of a well thought out process.

The opening of the FLE will allow them to continue to fix attractions that were neglected for far too long. Such as they did with the HoP, the Haunted Mansion (and Liberty Square), BTMRR, The Tiki, Tiki, Tiki Room, the Castle and all of MSUSA.

Hmmmm, I wonder what is next? After CBJ.

 

[WDW1974]

There is a plot of land available behind the tents of Storybook Circus where Pixie Hollow was supposed to go. You can see it on the earliest artwork for the expansion

There is plenty of land at MK ... more land than they'll need for the next 40 years at this rate.

And for those who think a Phase II will ever happen, please tell me when one ever did (no, Horizons and Living Seas don't really count because those were coming before EC opened ... same with Asia at DAK etc)

 

[WDW1974]

I don't see your average, non-Disney fanatic making a special trip to WDW to see FLE.

What's the major draw?

What's the attraction Disney can promote in commercials and TV specials?

There's no hook.

And Ariel ain't Harry Potter.

True ... I think most fanbois find Daniel Radcliffe far more attractive than a girl that's half fish.

 

[WDW1974]

I doubt they will ever stop this practice. I feel that is particular smoke and mirror practice that will always work. People today are conditioned to look for a discount. They will raise rack rates to an even more obscene level and then discounted rates will come in at what ever profit margin they decide is acceptable. People will think they are getting a deal when they really are not.

I would disagree with you now based on what is happening ... until now, it's always worked. It isn't now. And the TDO execs can't cover up the numbers anymore without more cuts and more increases.

But realize they are sooooo afraid of the thought of layoffs in the next six months with the stock at an all-time high and people suffering from a recession that either started in 2008 or way back in the 90s when companies were allowed to off-shore jobs and treat labor like it wasn't all that crucial to running a business.

You are going to see a rash of 'retirements' at TDO in January if they suddenly 'need' to cut 2,000 jobs to make the bottom line look better.

 

[Adam5897]

So right again, Frank. There are more hotels and timeshares, more buses and traffic, more dead and empty zones across property, more crumbling infrsatructure.

(yes, kids, this is the same company that in the 20th century built EPCOT Center in three years, but is taking five for a modest Fantasyland expansion and a solid two-plus to just build a two-minute kiddie coaster!)

Im sick of people calling this a kiddie coaster. Its not meant to be fast or thrilling. Its meant to imerse you into the story of of the 7 Dwarfs and watch them working in the mine and get the feeling you are in a mine kart while it sways. A roller coaster dosen't always have to be fast.

 

[WDW1974]

I thought when it takes that long its coined "The American Way"

Then, I guess UNI is just a bunch of unAmerican Commies, right?

Cause they seem to have no problem building great new things in reasonable timeframes.

 

[jt04]

Are you talking about the bloodletting of 2009 of important oldtimers and mid-level managers who worked front-line so that the bottom line wouldn't look as bas as it should have?

Or are you talking about the ones that will becoming in early 2013 (look at it as MAGICal holiday gifts) IF Disney can't get its Orlando numbers up?

I just want to be clear because I DO know what I am speaking of. You are tossing opinion out of your as usual.



I guess I read a different book ... and save the company? All he did was takeover from Michael, mend a few fences and do business as usual. You make it seem like the WDW ... TWDC of 2012 is being run so much differently than TWDC of 2002. It just isn't. Don't believe me? Fine. Ask people in the industry. Ask Wall Street analysts. Ask media followers.

But Bob Iger's Disney is about 85% Michael Eisner's. That IS reality.

If true Chevrolet needs to hire Mr Eisner stat.

Anyway, it is football season spirit (or close enough). And while I enjoy the sparring matches with you my time is getting limited to carry on as I am able to at other times of the year.

Add to that the fact that the era of doom and gloom is rapidly fading. That sun hovering on the horizon of central Florida is a sunrise not a sunset.

But you keep on with "The End is Near" talk. I have no desire anymore to try to talk you out of your religious beliefs.

Good night and good luck.

 

[DznyRktekt]

I'm sorry fanbois, but it shouldn't take more time in the 21st century to build this Fantasyland expansion than it took in the 20th century to build EPCOT Center. That is pure and utter (expletive deleted).

Bravo! (I'm a little late to the party, 35 pages late, but I'll catch up.)

 

[DocMcHulk]

It's an interesting idea. "Disney War" suggests Eisner had absolute contempt for those who manged the theme parks even when he joined Disney in 1984, calling them "monkeys". (Because even a monkey could run a theme park according to Eisner.) Eisner supposedly had much more respect for the Imagineers and counted on them for theme park development.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if that same culture continued under Iger's reign.

The imagineers have great ideas. They also have a great deal of respect of what WDW is and should be. they understand that for many, this visit will be the ONLY one they will ever have... so they want it to be great and special. In many ways they are humbled by the responsibility. Too often the management is too worried about $$$.

 

[John]

This whole thing smells of the fact that TDO is getting spannked by Burbank, problem is no one is going to the princibles office.....yet. Is there a day of reckoning for TDO ? Will a certian Ms. Crofton be the first inline to get an early retirement? Seems to me she should be first inline. Where does Staggs really fit in with all this? Was Staggs visit to WDW a dog and pony show?.....give the impression he is "on it" Where has Meg been? Sure hasnt been in Paris. I think they confiscate her passport at the airport. Did Iger tell TDO "just get out of the way?" Can TDO get out of its own way?.....so many questions....

IMHO, I have to agree with Richard on the discounting and dining deals 74, even you mentioned how no one in their right mind would pay rack rate. My last question is.....now that at the very least we have conjecture that WDW is going to get some well deserved help, what about guest spending? Merch and all the small stuff that completes a visit? I cant help but think we still will get the same Disney Parks crapola.

 

[WDW1974]

Exactly. Once you start, it's hard to break the habit. Look at Kohl's vs JCP. I will never purchase anything at Kohl's at retail, because it will either eventually go on sale, or I'll get a coupon in the mail. JCP tried to break free of this ridiculous cycle of discounting by slashing retail on their items and simplifying sales, clearance and coupons. JCP is struggling to convince people to shop their lower retail with no coupons, when they can go to Kohl's and "save $60 with your Kohl's card!" on a $40 purchase because they're discounting inflated prices.

Good point ... and at WDW all of us are always paying more (and getting lower quality/smaller portions/less hours/less entertainment) in the end.

That's why WDW increases its resort prices annually. All the time. Someone might have pointed out that with the economy in free-fall that maybe there shouldn't have been increases at all since 2008. ... Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, Starwoord don't increase prices of rooms across the board every year. There are hotels I stay at where I am paying the same rate now that I did a decade ago (of course, they also don't offer absurd discounts all the time).

That's why I get a kick at all the discounts that I see everytime I log onto MAGIC on the banner ads. Yeah, I get that even free dining has no one at WDW and suddenly those $104 rooms at and ASMu are suddenly a much fairer $66 a night.

 

[Master Yoda]

I would disagree with you now based on what is happening ... until now, it's always worked. It isn't now. And the TDO execs can't cover up the numbers anymore without more cuts and more increases.

But realize they are sooooo afraid of the thought of layoffs in the next six months with the stock at an all-time high and people suffering from a recession that either started in 2008 or way back in the 90s when companies were allowed to off-shore jobs and treat labor like it wasn't all that crucial to running a business.

You are going to see a rash of 'retirements' at TDO in January if they suddenly 'need' to cut 2,000 jobs to make the bottom line look better.

Time will tell. While there does seem to always be something out there in the way of a promotion they are much harder to get then they were a few years ago. In the past, a promotion would go from X to Y with no blackouts and nearly every resort included. Now they will come out for the same span but they are riddled with blackout dates and the more popular resorts will have zero or next to zero availability. It would appear that they are trying to pinpoint particular time spans of lower occupancy with promotions vs. the older tactic of carpet bombing and entire time frame. Given how much of a pain and expense it is for people to change dates once flights are booked the tactic did have a bit of logic to it. I have a feeling that if the surgical strikes are not working, they will simply return to carpet bombing and let only the ignorant pay an inflated full price while the rest of us pay a "discounted" price that actually comes in at a good profit margin for the mouse.

The sad reality is we are all suckers for what we perceive to be a good deal.

 

[WDW1974]

If true Chevrolet needs to hire Mr Eisner stat.

Anyway, it is football season spirit (or close enough). And while I enjoy the sparring matches with you my time is getting limited to carry on as I am able to at other times of the year.

Add to that the fact that the era of doom and gloom is rapidly fading. That sun hovering on the horizon of central Florida is a sunrise not a sunset.

But you keep on with "The End is Near" talk. I have no desire anymore to try to talk you out of your religious beliefs.

Good night and good luck.

OK, folks, can we get an over/under (since it soon will be football season and all) on JT's return? I think once established we should all throw in $5 (was gonna say $10, but the economy still sucks!) and the winner gets it all (but has to give me 11.5% since it was my idea!)

 

[Captain Chaos]

OK, folks, can we get an over/under (since it soon will be football season and all) on JT's return? I think once established we should all throw in $5 (was gonna say $10, but the economy still sucks!) and the winner gets it all (but has to give me 11.5% since it was my idea!)

I say the next time you post something very informative... His mancrush on you needs daily fulfillment...

 

[WDW1974]

The imagineers have great ideas. They also have a great deal of respect of what WDW is and should be. they understand that for many, this visit will be the ONLY one they will ever have... so they want it to be great and special. In many ways they are humbled by the responsibility. Too often the management is too worried about $$$.

Nah. Some folks think Disney's problems are all related to WDI ... they have some good points, but most of them are just unhappy because Disney would never hire them.

 

[NoChesterHester]

I just want to say thanks to '74 and Tim_4 that posted similar info a couple days ago. This has been an exciting discussion. Many of us scan these boards day after day in hope of a big nugget... something really worth getting excited about. Mostly we get info about new queues and restroom rehabs.

Hope, sometimes it is all we got.

 

[WDW1974]

This whole thing smells of the fact that TDO is getting spannked by Burbank, problem is no one is going to the princibles office.....yet. Is there a day of reckoning for TDO ? Will a certian Ms. Crofton be the first inline to get an early retirement? Seems to me she should be first inline. Where does Staggs really fit in with all this? Was Staggs visit to WDW a dog and pony show?.....give the impression he is "on it" Where has Meg been? Sure hasnt been in Paris. I think they confiscate her passport at the airport. Did Iger tell TDO "just get out of the way?" Can TDO get out of its own way?.....so many questions....

Disney execs never get fired. Well, one who cooked the books with DVC did recently then lawyered up and got Disney to write him a glowing letter so someone else will hire him. ... Meg isn't going to be fired. She is on the way out and, sadly, has health issues, which I would never make light of. I don't know of any timeline for her to leave beyond sooner rather than later. ... Staggs is trying to look good because he still believes his own PR that he is getting Bob's job ... I know someone who may well get it but she ain't him! (yes, I am hinting at something here ... no, I won't say anymore at this time!)

As near as I can tell, what went down was Burbank looking at TDO's recent financials and projections for the next year (maybe even two) plus O-Town execs literally acting like the sky is falling. I believe that was behind Kathy's move, the decision to do SOMETHING BIG at TPFKaTD-MGMS and to approve yet more rounds of cutbacks/cost-cutting and price increases (and the requisite discounting too!)

Iger is aware of all that is going on, but hasn't had to approve anything yet as it's all stuff that is under his pay grade.

If all forces decide to go ahead with an $800 million makeover of TPFKaTD-MGMS, then Iger would step in. But he's not going to stand in its way.

IMHO, I have to agree with Richard on the discounting and dining deals 74, even you mentioned how no one in their right mind would pay rack rate. My last question is.....now that at the very least we have conjecture that WDW is going to get some well deserved help, what about guest spending? Merch and all the small stuff that completes a visit? I cant help but think we still will get the same Disney Parks crapola.

People WILL pat rack rate IF they have no other option and Disney provides a product worthy of it ... ya know, like they once did. But Disney may well have to change its rates at some point. Moderate motels that I regularly stayed at for under $85 a night well into the 2004-2006 timeframe just can't have prices approaching $300. That's effing insane ... just like fact that a room at POP would ever be over $100 a night.

 

[El Grupo]

Staggs is trying to look good because he still believes his own PR that he is getting Bob's job ... I know someone who may well get it but she ain't him! (yes, I am hinting at something here ... no, I won't say anymore at this time!)

A "she" quickly came to mind. Based on a small bit of experience with her, I wonder if she'd be much better. Was that "she" involved with helping the former chairman of the studios get promoted to that position?