Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[IWant2GoNow]

Get back too me please when you have grasped the idea that "TDO" no longer has the leverage in these matters. It is coloring your perspective of how everything happens. WDW is NOT the same as it was 15 years ago as huge sums have gone into expanding resorts and restoring infrastructure both behind the scenes and "on-stage". Especially since Iger took over. Now the table is set for adding content to the parks. It was absolutely necessary for events to happen in the order they have.

Now we get to the fun part.

Don't you think from all of the past number-fudging & discount lures that there's no way they would want to build MORE resorts & spread out the room capacity even thinner? I don't know the figures (frankly because stock reports & quarterly totals bore the hell out of me), but wouldn't you say a partial reason for resort capacity percentages being down is because some people that would have been staying at older Value & Moderate Resorts wanted to try out AoA & so those numbers were spread thin?

IMO, they should have waited until AFTER FLE opened to open up AoA. FLE will no doubt see spikes in attendance & fill rates would have gone up, up, up. Disney could have then declared how well they were doing with sell outs & THEN announce a new resort making the people that didn't come for FLE another reason to go, plus give the people that already went a reason to go back & stay at a new resort. Not only that, but sell outs generate hype for consumers.

Now, if I get what you're claiming, you're saying they've opened up AoA, & the various DVC in preparation for some sort of WDW explosion of greatness. (Which, in my eyes, just means AoA because the DVC stuff is just untouchable for most families.) NextGen I'll give you, I do think NextGen is a good idea, just don't like how much they spent on it. But I find it very hard to believe that the WDW that has let themselves degrade show quality, entertainment, & even the simplest of "Magic" (napkins, etc.), is the same WDW that plotted out the "resort expansion & restoring of infrastructure" you meantion in order to accomodate massive loads of people coming to see whatever they create (or don't create) in the future.

However, I have a feeling that you don't believe TDO has been in charge for some time & that TDA is pulling strings behind the scenes. So by that account, you think TDA is your "new sheriff". Which is fine in theory, but I really don't think TWDC could have hidden that from all of us this entire time. And if they did, then LARGE amounts of credit to you. I don't mean to offend, just trying to see exactly what goes on in jt-land.

 

[COProgressFan]

Spirit, I can't seem to get excited about any proposed expansions until the current regime is out. Am I supposed to put my faith and hope into the very people who have allowed the collapse to occur? The very people who don't seem to get DHS are supposed to fix it?

This is my worry as well. And while WDW is desperate for major new attractions and entertainment, as nice as that would be, would it bring back the prime rib to buffets? Or bring back show quality and working effects to the MK? Or non-foamhead entertainment? Or a functioning monorail and transport system?

The problems run deep, as many are well aware. WDW could use a few good billion for new attractions, but what about the other major issues at WDW?

 

[montyz81]

Now, if I get what you're claiming, you're saying they've opened up AoA, & the various DVC in preparation for some sort of WDW explosion of greatness. (Which, in my eyes, just means AoA because the DVC stuff is just untouchable for most families.) NextGen I'll give you, I do think NextGen is a good idea, just don't like how much they spent on it. But I find it very hard to believe that the WDW that has let themselves degrade show quality, entertainment, & even the simplest of "Magic" (napkins, etc.), is the same WDW that plotted out the "resort expansion & restoring of infrastructure" you meantion in order to accomodate massive loads of people coming to see whatever they create (or don't create) in the future.

What is NextGen?

 

[COProgressFan]

I think a lot of people in that demo get it. Most people don't become rich overnight. These people (I am sure) saw how people clawed and blew tons of money to get into Celebration - only for Disney to dorp any and all association (besides the manhole covers). I would expect a similar situation with Golden Oak. Disney will associate with it until they have made all the money they can - and then probably outsource it to a third party and let them keep the mickey ears on the sign. "Old Money" understands this and probably isn't buying in. "New Money" - well..I guess they will be able to check it off as a lesson learned in a few years.

I agree ... for lack of a better term I can't see how any "old money" folks would ever buy into something like Golden Oak, when just a few miles up the road they could find something much better (and more valuable in terms of real estate) in tony Windermere.

 

[disneyflush]

I find it very hard to believe that the WDW that has let themselves degrade show quality, entertainment, & even the simplest of "Magic" (napkins, etc.), is the same WDW that plotted out the "resort expansion & restoring of infrastructure" you meantion in order to accomodate massive loads of people coming to see whatever they create (or don't create) in the future.

This. Times like 50.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

This is my worry as well. And while WDW is desperate for major new attractions and entertainment, as nice as that would be, would it bring back the prime rib to buffets? Or bring back show quality and working effects to the MK? Or non-foamhead entertainment? Or a functioning monorail and transport system?

The problems run deep, as many are well aware. WDW could use a few good billion for new attractions, but what about the other major issues at WDW?

This is on my mind as well, particularly show quality and maintenance. Big new attractions are always a good thing. But they're a bittersweet addition if all the best elements just break down and decay in less than even a year down the road and nothing is ever done about them (ala Yeti). If there's going to be some sort of change, it needs to be the entire package including proper maintenance, not just new attractions.

 

[COProgressFan]

But since you questioned my number, I never stated WDW was at 60% for the year. Just that resorts have been doing poorly this summer. I also don't know how DVC is factored in when it is an owner versus a renter.

Perhaps it's the absurdly ridiculous prices for the rooms which have increased dramatically over the last few years coupled with the complete lack of new attractions, entertainment or really much of anything going on this summer at the World?

I don't even think they have much of summer promotional campaign going on this year.

 

[disneyflush]

What is NextGen?

A way to increase the efficiency of collecting guest resources.

 

[DocMcHulk]

Perhaps it's the absurdly ridiculous prices for the rooms which have increased dramatically over the last few years coupled with the complete lack of new attractions, entertainment or really much of anything going on this summer at the World?

I have a general belief that no hotel room is worth over $100/night unless you actually plan on living in it (like say a timeshare with a full kitchen). But if you are essentially using it to sleep at night or take naps, then it's not worth more than $100. Just my views.

 

[devoy1701]

See the post above I just wrote. TDO does not make big decisions anymore it would not appear. They basically are a level of operations management. Big decisions are made in California. Pandora is the evidence of that.

The Disneyland Resort (and Disneyland park) seem to be more than capable of being able to make operational plans/budgets/changes on their own with what we've been hearing is in the pipeline about 2 E-Tickets on the way. Sure DCA needed help from Burbank because the amount of investment needed far exceeded what could be allocated from within P&R. It's simply not the same situation with WDW though. WDW was in a great position to be self-sufficient and drive it's own development and decisions. It didn't need a shot in the arm from Burbank to save anything. That isn't true anymore. If Burbank was calling the shots for all of the parks owned or partially owned by Disney than I would tip my hat to you sir, but that simply isn't the case. Burbank is calling the shots for WDW because of TDO's inept abilities to develop a sustaining business plan. As others have mentioned, cost cutting and price hikes work so long as you have costs to cut and you don't overprice/overvalue your product.

 

[flynnibus]

I have a general belief that no hotel room is worth over $100/night unless you actually plan on living in it (like say a timeshare with a full kitchen). But if you are essentially using it to sleep at night or take naps, then it's not worth more than $100. Just my views.

Do you travel at all? Because your expectation of hotel rates is extremely dated...

 

[DocMcHulk]

Do you travel at all? Because your expectation of hotel rates is extremely dated...

Not really. This summer we drove from Chicago to Orlando, and back. We never paid over $100.

 

[rioriz]

For once I thought we could have a thread about the positive upside to all the info WDW74 has given us and not turn into a negative pity party but alas no such thing occurs in this forum anymore

 

[devoy1701]

Not really. This summer we drove from Chicago to Orlando, and back. We never paid over $100.

Throwing out roadside motels, I think you should raise your ceiling to about $150 in today's world. You can stay at a decent hotel for usually between $129 to about $159 a night (Hyatt's, Marriotts, etc). I start to balk when rates climb over the $160 point, but it vastly depends on where the hotel is.

 

[RSoxNo1]

From a business standpoint, WDW needs to be adding at least one major attraction every 5 years to keep families coming back.

I'm one of those families that comes back about every 4 to 5 years. Looking for the new ride or land. In 2016, I'm hoping to see another attraction plus the new FLE...(and potter..can't wait to see that!)

The number I hear is every 3.75 years. But that's also the time frame for the average family to return. The question then becomes, if they add new offerings more frequently, will that same family visit more frequently?

 

[devoy1701]

The number I hear is every 3.75 years. But that's also the time frame for the average family to return. The question then becomes, if they add new offerings more frequently, will that same family visit more frequently?

It doesn't have to be new offerings necessarily...pair it with updates to existing offerings, overlays, mixing up schedules for hard ticketed events, seasonal events at Epcot, etc and yes, atleast for us, we would visit more frequently, and I think other fans and repeat vacationers would do the same.

 

[DocMcHulk]

Throwing out roadside motels, I think you should raise your ceiling to about $150 in today's world. You can stay at a decent hotel for usually between $129 to about $159 a night (Hyatt's, Marriotts, etc). I start to balk when rates climb over the $160 point, but it vastly depends on where the hotel is.

We do Choice Hotels and rarely pay over $100. They are certainly not high class hotels. but for a bed and maybe a pool, they are more than enough.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Is it too early to call this a victory (albeit a minor one)? It seems that it's more than just "a few of us" who have speaking to TDO with our wallets. It seems that those "new breed of guests" who don't care about the Disney Quality or the Disney Way aren't coming in droves as anticipated...or that the issues seen within Disney World are infact more noticable than TDO and the PD Brigade seem would have you believe, and the issues are noticable to visitors beyond just those trained and versed in Disney Theme Park History and Fanboism. It sounds like more people are willing to stay away and be steadfast to say "what's new since I was last there that warrants a price 15%, 25%, or 40% higher than what I paid last year?"

Disney World can't, and shouldn't be able to get by on a marketing campaign that tries to pitch it as a Value Vacation while they continuously trim all of that value that makes it such a wonderful and unique vacation destination away. I'm glad TDO is getting antsy. I just wonder how long it's going to take for them to about course, and who's head(s) is/are going to roll because of the direction they're currently heading, and why they didn't listen to the concerns earlier?

It's been 18 months since we've been to Disney World which is a big deal considering we used to go 3-4 times a month. We'll be heading back to Disneyland before we make it back to WDW.

Very minor victory. I'd say that it's good that TDO is running scared and evidently feels compelled to react. However, I'm far from convinced that they "get it". What's more likely is that they see the writing on the wall about their jobs.

 

[Master Yoda]

Not really. This summer we drove from Chicago to Orlando, and back. We never paid over $100.

While that is possible to do, it is not the average. The average hotel rate in the US falls between $90-$150. You can of course find lower prices than the average, but the hotels location and quality stand a good chance of taking a hit in quality when compared to one that falls into the average. Where you are also plays a bit role in price. A Motel 6 close to Manhattan goes for about $140 a night. Travel just 20 miles away and that price drops to $55 a night.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Are you the one that got him to add the nipple rings? (Joe ... I have no idea if Bruce has them, but being an Imagineer ...)

At 1:24, there is a Burning Man book on his shelf, so I guess I wouldn't put it past him. I wonder if imagineers have made stuff for Burning Man before.
Hmm... I also wonder how long it takes Joe to put his earrings on in the morning ...

Great... now I'm wondering if Joe Rohde has nipple rings, thanks guys.