Disney(World) vs. Disney(land)?

[menamechris]

I have a sneaking suspicion that we aren't going to hear anything until next year about any projects. Disney seems pretty dedicated to marketing their lil Fantasyland expansion to death...

Disney has become an incredibly announcement-driven organization. They know that their announcements often create more excitement than the delivered product. The problem with that is they never seem to start work on anything (except DVC) until after it has been announced. That means years of waiting for something to happen.

WDW needs something now. The longer these decisions about Epcot and HS are put off - the longer the parks will continue to be stale and turn more guests off. They would be terribly wise to either announce or start moving dirt now. It doesn't matter which happens first. But doing neither should not be acceptable...

 

[danlb_2000]

All the excuses that WDW is taking it slow, the economy is doing bad can't make up for the fact of all the DVC expansion. If the economy is so bad, why the investment in more DVC? Especially when the hotels are hovering around 60% full as it is? Shouldn't the smart move be to invest in what is already there? New entertainment, new attractions, etc.
.

This is a good question. Can someone explain the business reason that so much DVC development is going on recently?

 

[menamechris]

This is a good question. Can someone explain the business reason that so much DVC development is going on recently?

They make the quarterly reports look amazing. But maybe that isn't even doing the trick anymore.

 

[alissafalco]

Where is the wall-banging smiley when you need it? Do you actually know what an AoA suite is?

Yes, do you?

 

[Tom Morrow]

Yeah DCA 1.0 was a raving success.

It was??? News to me! Everyone thought it was a lackluster park built on the cheap (for Disney)... because it was.

Also, I wish people would stop assuming that FLE will have anywhere near the impact on the park that Wizarding World had on IoA. It will be decent and serve it's purpose of expanding the park's capacity and crowd control, but it in no way will make any real waves.

 

[Brewmaster]

.
But Kathy Mangum was one of the top folks on Carsland and she now will be residing at Celebration Place, and it isn't because she's replacing Jim MacPhee on Next Gen or because she needs to reign in Joe Rohde's travel expense account.

Just quoting this for truth, @WDW1974 had announced (notice i didnt use the term "predicted"' there's a lot of Kreskin being thrown around here today) this in his original post. Today it was announced to the media (old and new) that Kathy is moving to the Sunshine State. Hopefully lending more credence to the movement that may be coming in the following months.

 

[yoyoflamingo]

With the D23 Expo next year, makes you wonder if they'll hold their cards close to their chest until then, or announce to draw more people to come to the Expo to see the concept art and models.

 

[alissafalco]

What you have decided is that your hotel surroundings were more important to you than having a suite and the suite was purely a perk, not a necessity. Not necessarily that AoA is overpriced or doesn't deserve to be called a 'value' resort. You aren't being objective about it. The suite is just an optional perk to you - something you don't feel is necessary to pay for. Compare this to another family of 5 or 6.. who don't have such passing options.

If you actually need that room style, it is competitively priced vs other rooms offering the same requirements and is priced significantly lower than other suites which are more upscale in the Deluxe categories.

The family suites are to address a specific type of demographic - the larger travel families. The groups of 3-4 who are 'priced out' of the property or don't see the value vs a discounted moderate/deluxe really isn't any sweat off Disney's back. That's not who they built the property for.

When LM rooms open, I bet those go at a much quicker clip.. they fit the larger demographic.

AoA is overpriced! You and TDO can continue to think that this is a great deal, and you and TDO can continue to sit and ponder as to why AoA isn't sizzling.

 

[WDW1974]

And look at that: the executive over Cars Land now the "Executive Producer" at WDW.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/the-...-mangum-imagineering-20120808,0,5898268.story

Want to comment on many things (just hopefully go trolless tonight), but this bears some comment since Al Lutz mentioned this last week and I confirmed it two days ago now, but it would seem that Jason Garcia is not good for much more than rewriting press releases.

I would guess he sat in on the earnings call and could have asked a question about Kathy. He might, since he's a reporter and all, have asked why would she be needed (read the WDI spinners comment if you wonder what I am talking about) in Florida IF Bob Iger wasn't lying and IF Disney didn't have MAJOR plans on the drawing board for TPFKaTD-MGMS. He might have pushed on the subject and flat out asked if any version of Carsland was in the plans for the Studios. ... And yeah, he may have given Al and a certain Spirit a 'wittle bit of credit in his piece (I mean the dude has used Merfie as a source ... and Mrs. Bricker's hubby ... and that weirdo, Lee!)

If you are finishing work and cutting down CAPEX, why in the world would you torture poor Kathy by taking her from beautiful SoCal and moving her to the Central Florida swamps? Right, Jason?

Why is it that no one ever asks the questions that REALLY need asking even when they are paid to do so.
Hey, Jason, do you have any sources at the front desks of WDW's deluxe resorts (or any resort)? If so, you might want to ask them to give you some copies of the load levels of the resorts of late -- and then go and ask Disney if they have any concerns about current trends.

Or you can keep puking forth whatever they release without putting it in any perspective at all.

Oh, you might have also asked Disney/Iger when Pandora will break ground and why they haven't offered up one piece of art in almost 11 months.

That is what a real reporter might do there, dude.

EDIT: The exact word used by Disney/JRG was 'resources' to describe Kathy's need in O-Town. Why would you ever need more resources, let alone of her caliber, if you are not only increasing your work load substantially, but decreasing it?

Think about it?

And since I know JRG reads this, I'd hope his employers do too ... well, Disney does at least!

 

[WDW1974]

THIS deserves a post of its own, btw. This is also from the story the Sentinel put up on the site after the end of the business day. Take a look at the wording used to describe NEXT GEN:

"Disney World is in the midst of several other large initiatives, including a $425 million expansion of the Magic Kingdom's Fantasyland section, a new land based on the film "Avatar" in Disney's Animal Kingdom that's expected to cost between $400 million and $500 million, and a billion-dollar technology-systems upgrade dubbed "Next Generation Experience.""

Yes, folks, they've finally copped to the fact that all the much ballyhooed NEXT GEN project is just like you getting the iPhone5 ... really, only with a lot more zeros and the ability to hold a helluva lot more personal info of yours.

 

[Horizonsfan]

If Kathy's coming in, who exactly is getting a reduced role at WDI? Is Eric Jacobson essentially being pushed aside? Or is the cleanout at WDW relegated only to TDO?

Merf on twitter seems to be suggesting that someone's being relegated to a title as Kathy takes over.

 

[flynnibus]

AoA is overpriced! You and TDO can continue to think that this is a great deal, and you and TDO can continue to sit and ponder as to why AoA isn't sizzling.

By your logic...
A Toyota Truck is overpriced simply because you decided for the same amount of money you wanted a Lexus instead of the truck. Nevermind if the coupe actually does the same thing as the truck.. or if the truck is actually cheaper than other trucks.. or if you really needed a truck to start with. But because you could get a Lexus coupe for the same amount of money, you see the truck as overpriced. Completely ignoring the difference between truck pricing and coupe pricing!

Sometimes people can't see past their own noses... I give up.

 

[wdwmagic]

If Kathy's coming in, who exactly is getting a reduced role at WDI? Is Eric Jacobson essentially being pushed aside? Or is the cleanout at WDW relegated only to TDO?

Merf on twitter seems to be suggesting that someone's being relegated to a title as Kathy takes over.

Eric's and Joe's role is unchanged - they are both on the creative arts side.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Nice post. I do have some comments and look forward to your response. And remember, all of what I'm about to write is just my opinion. I'm willing to acknowledge upfront that it could be wrong!

Thanks for the thoughtful response but these decisions occur far beyond Orlando now. Pandora is the perfect example..

Yes and no. And I agree that Pandora is a good example of this.

If Disney is like most Fortune 500 companies, overall decisions on how much to spend are made at the highest levels of the company. This includes decisions such as "11% of 2011's gross revenue will be spent on R&D in 2012." Typically, individual business units within the company then have to make their pitch why they deserve a bigger piece of that funding. Divisions that make a better pitch get a bigger chunk. Fundamentally, they are competing with each other for the same R&D funding. In a mature organization that works well together, this process goes smoothly as even the losing side recognizes that the company is better off with the money spent elsewhere. However, very large corporations (like Disney) tend to have internal fiefdoms and leaders with huge egos. No one likes to "loose" in this environment, even if "losing" is more financially beneficial for the company as a whole. The perception is that TDO has been at the losing end of the battle for some time. Build more cruise ships, expand at DCA, open a DVC in Hawaii, improve other properties, but WDW is pretty much the same resort it was 15 years ago.

Pandora is a perfect example of just how ineffective TDO has been. Perhaps the biggest change to WDW in 20 years is not even being championed from within TDO! That's an incredible indictment of TDO.

The decision was made to fix other divisions first. That is plainly obvious. This has allowed the stock price to climb while they retained the ability to control quality where they did invest.

TWDC could have thrown tons of money at WDW as soon as Iger took the reigns but it is unlikely they could have maintained the amazing financial success they have not to mention possibly not providing a quality product.

Even if they had thrown a few billion at WDW parks most of that would just be coming on line and the stock would probably not be doing as well. That would mean less to invest in future projects.

A company does not grow its business by not spending money. It grows its business by spending money wisely.

It is easy to achieve short-term gains by cutting corners and increasing prices. This is not a sustainable business model for long-term growth. Taken to its extreme, Disney could have made a lot more money short-term by terminating the entire maintenance and R&D staffs. Long-term, this is financial suicide. Fundamentally, TDO seems to have adopted a strategy that thinks suicide in small doses is the best business plan.

Looking at the big picture, Iger has fixed most of the problems he inherited and can now focus more on WDW. Exactly how I said it would happen.

DL can finally stand on its own. WDW will soon open the FLE which will be an amazing success. Test Track is being completely reimagined. Pandora is underway most likely.

And WDW has maintained itself as the number 1 tourist destination in the world with all sorts of stuff happening on stage and off stage as it pertains to the future. (TT and Pandora and the FLE for starters)

WDW74 has figured out that the change I predicted long ago is happening. He just can't bring himself to admit the future of WDW has always been very secure so he has rationalized TWDC is suddenly acting out of desperation. That is just ridiculous.

Note how deliberate and steady Iger is. Note such decisions such as the Pixar and Marvel purchases. His critics claim these were acts of desperation that he just got lucky on. This is beyond ridiculous and is tin hat territory.

It depends on how you measure #1. GM was a business disaster for decades long before it lost the #1 spot. GM's senior management adopted a "we're too big to fail" mentality. (Sound familiar?) I think most people who post on this thread are passionate about WDW and don't want WDW to adopt the same mentality.

I suspect Iger's primary concern is how the public will perceive him in 2014, assuming he runs for public office. Iger is more concerned with the overall perception of The Walt Disney Company than he is with whether WDW gets a new land or has burned out light bulbs. And that's the difference between Iger and Walt Disney. If those many stories about Walt are true, Walt really did care about all those things. Walt built DL because he wanted it, even when nearly everyone else thought it was a bad idea. To quote Walt:

The park means a lot to me. It's something that will never be finished, something I can keep developing, keep 'plussing' and adding to. It's alive. It will be a live, breathing thing that will need changes. When you wrap up a picture and turn it over to Technicolor, you're through. Snow White is a dead issue with me. I just finished up a live-action picture, wrapped it up a few weeks ago. It's gone. I can't touch it. There are things in it I don't like, but I can't do anything about it. I want something live, something that would grow. The park is that. Not only can I add things, but even the trees will keep growing. The thing will get more beautiful year after year. And it will get better as I find out what the public likes. I can't do that with a picture; it's finished and unchangeable before I find out whether the public likes it or not.

Don't we wish current Disney management thought like this?

 

[WDW1974]

If Kathy's coming in, who exactly is getting a reduced role at WDI? Is Eric Jacobson essentially being pushed aside? Or is the cleanout at WDW relegated only to TDO?

Merf on twitter seems to be suggesting that someone's being relegated to a title as Kathy takes over.

I don't know what Merf may or may not be suggesting.

I haven't heard anything to suggest reduced roles for either Eric or Joe Rohde. If Disney is going to do half of what's been proposed, then I think they'll need them all.

Of course, if Avatar dies, then they might use that as an excuse to send JR off to retirement in Nepal!

 

[WDW1974]

By your logic...
A Toyota Truck is overpriced simply because you decided for the same amount of money you wanted a Lexus instead of the truck. Nevermind if the coupe actually does the same thing as the truck.. or if the truck is actually cheaper than other trucks.. or if you really needed a truck to start with. But because you could get a Lexus coupe for the same amount of money, you see the truck as overpriced. Completely ignoring the difference between truck pricing and coupe pricing!

Sometimes people can't see past their own noses... I give up.

I've tried to steer clear of your discussion on AoA and its real vs. perceived value. My only comments about it were that it isn't doing gangbuster business and has discounts available many nights.

My other one on value would simply be comparing it to off-property options. You can rent a house or two for what a suite costs at AoA at rack rate. You can Priceline THREE rooms at the resort level (like Gaylord Palms, DD Hilton, Omni Championsgate) for the same price etc.

I'd never stay at AoA at half off. But I don't have to be on WDW property 24/7 since I kicked my Pixie Dust addiction a decade ago.

 

[Horizonsfan]

Eric's and Joe's role is unchanged - they are both on the creative arts side.

I don't know what Merf may or may not be suggesting.

I haven't heard anything to suggest reduced roles for either Eric or Joe Rohde. If Disney is going to do half of what's been proposed, then I think they'll need them all.

Of course, if Avatar dies, then they might use that as an excuse to send JR off to retirement in Nepal!

I couldn't figure out what he was trying to suggest either. I would have been surprised to hear that Joe had finally been pushed aside. Even more so if it was Eric.

 

[WDW1974]

And make sure Tom Morris is a part of the team. That man gets the magic and makes fantastic attractions.

Tom is an incredibly talented dude who has created great projects around the globe.

I have inquired as to what he'll be up to. Not sure right now ... my gut says one of the two major DL projects that Bob Iger swears on his momma's grave (is she dead?) aren't happening will get Tom's talents.

 

[Master Yoda]

Well, the AoA suites only have a queen bed in the master bedroom as far as I have read. Also, the kitchen is more like the kitchenette in the DVC studios: small fridge, sink and microwave. Oh, and a AKL Kidani villa would get you the second bathroom (besides the king bed, a real kitchen, washer and dryer) just not the six person.

And at only $200 or more per night.

 

[WDW1974]

but WDW is pretty much the same resort it was 15 years ago.

I just wanted to let that point sit because fundamentally it is true. Most of the 'improvements' have really been things taken away (from water parks to nighttime entertainment districts to entertainment to dining locales) ... sure we've gotten DAK (just in by your 15 year figure, I prefer to use Y2K as a starting point) and loads of timeshares and hotel rooms, but not much else ... just a whole lot of price increases.

Pandora is a perfect example of just how ineffective TDO has been. Perhaps the biggest change to WDW in 20 years is not even being championed from within TDO! That's an incredible indictment of TDO.

yep ...

A company does not grow its business by not spending money. It grows its business by spending money wisely.

It is easy to achieve short-term gains by cutting corners and increasing prices. This is not a sustainable business model for long-term growth. Taken to its extreme, Disney could have made a lot more money short-term by terminating the entire maintenance and R&D staffs. Long-term, this is financial suicide. Fundamentally, TDO seems to have adopted a strategy that thinks suicide in small doses is the best business plan.

I bolded that because that is exactly why folks have been running around for over a year saying 'the sky is falling, the sky is falling' ... this has been their business plan and they've come close to the end of the line. It isn't a plan like 'let's make a quality product, treat our workers and consumers with respect, make a profit and reinvest it wisely into our core business units' ... that will always work, but may not result in huge profits every quarter. But the current plan simply destroys your BRAND slowly. but surely.

It depends on how you measure #1. GM was a business disaster for decades long before it lost the #1 spot. GM's senior management adopted a "we're too big to fail" mentality. (Sound familiar?) I think most people who post on this thread are passionate about WDW and don't want WDW to adopt the same mentality.

I suspect Iger's primary concern is how the public will perceive him in 2014, assuming he runs for public office. Iger is more concerned with the overall perception of The Walt Disney Company than he is with whether WDW gets a new land or has burned out light bulbs. And that's the difference between Iger and Walt Disney. If those many stories about Walt are true, Walt really did care about all those things. Walt built DL because he wanted it, even when nearly everyone else thought it was a bad idea. To quote Walt:

Don't we wish current Disney management thought like this?

Walt doesn't belong in the same sentence with Bob. An amazing creative visionary compared to a typical came up in the 90s Wall Street manager. Bob is poison to Disney regardless of the stock price, and that's the only thing so many look at. Of course, when his long term business model starts hitting that stock price he'll be off campaigning and the new leader (whomever he or she may be!) will be left with a huge mess.